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Old 07-26-2012, 12:30 PM
Jon Stanley
 
Default Fedora Board Recap - 2012-07-25

On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 4:31 AM, "Jóhann B. Guđmundsson"
<johannbg@gmail.com> wrote:

> Remind me a again what is preventing all ticket from becoming public?

There's definitely sensitive information in there (related to legal
and people matters, for instance) that shouldn't be disclosed.
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Old 07-26-2012, 12:52 PM
Jon Ciesla
 
Default Fedora Board Recap - 2012-07-25

On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 7:49 AM, "Jóhann B. Guđmundsson"
<johannbg@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 07/26/2012 12:30 PM, Robyn Bergeron wrote:
>>
>> * The tickets filed with the Board are, at least a reasonable percentage
>> of the time, of a nature that they should be kept private (legal stuff,
>> personnel/sensitive/conflict, etc.).
>
>
> I would argue here that we should create an separate trac instance to handle
> all the legal issues which would be handled by the legal team for the legal
> stuff and another one for community conflicts be it individuals or groups in
> our community which would be handled by the community working group and the
> relevant tickets be migrated to those instances ( if doable ).

That would require a reliable method for predicting which issues might
potentially involve a legal component. I'm reasonably certain that no
satisfactory method exists, particularly in the United States.

-J

> Could you provide example on what you mean by "personnel and "sensitive"
> issues that the board might be dealing with which might not belong in either
> of those two previously mentioned instances?
>
> JBG
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Old 07-26-2012, 01:01 PM
Rahul Sundaram
 
Default Fedora Board Recap - 2012-07-25

On 07/26/2012 06:19 PM, "Jóhann B. Guđmundsson" wrote:

> Could you provide example on what you mean by "personnel and "sensitive"
> issues that the board might be dealing with which might not belong in
> either of those two previously mentioned instances?

That's not hard to imagine. When I was serving as a board member, one
example was:

Person foo and bar of the same team have inter personal conflicts that
is creating a poisonous environment and driving away community
participation. How do we resolve that?

Rahul
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Old 07-26-2012, 01:41 PM
Peter Robinson
 
Default Fedora Board Recap - 2012-07-25

On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 1:49 PM, "Jóhann B. Guđmundsson"
<johannbg@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 07/26/2012 12:30 PM, Robyn Bergeron wrote:
>>
>> * The tickets filed with the Board are, at least a reasonable percentage
>> of the time, of a nature that they should be kept private (legal stuff,
>> personnel/sensitive/conflict, etc.).
>
>
> I would argue here that we should create an separate trac instance to handle
> all the legal issues which would be handled by the legal team for the legal
> stuff and another one for community conflicts be it individuals or groups in
> our community which would be handled by the community working group and the
> relevant tickets be migrated to those instances ( if doable ).

The board gets legal and trademark issues that don't necessarily go to
legal themselves, or if they do the appropriate people get added to
the CC:. Some times there are things reported that aren't initially
considered a legal issue by the reporter.

There was a ticket that I opened long before I was on the board to do
with the MeeGo spin which involved legal and various trademark and
other things that a third party insisted on being closed before they
would begin discussion, personally I have no idea why that was but
hey.

There could also be things similar like Secure Boot (this isn't one,
just a possible example of one) which in the short term needs to
remain private for a period of time due to a NDA or similar.

> Could you provide example on what you mean by "personnel and "sensitive"
> issues that the board might be dealing with which might not belong in either
> of those two previously mentioned instances?

It varies and there's no hard and fast rule. Some times there's
personal issues that are reported that are redirected to the COW or
even escalated to the board from COW. It might be something to do with
a vendor that they wish to keep private until a particular point in
time (I'm not aware of any of these specifically as yet).

Ultimately I think it's very hard in a lot of the cases to draw a line
between two trac instances and say "This should be open" and "This
should not be open" and in a a non small amount of cases the tickets
move from one side to the other in either direction during the tickets
life time and there's no way of even finer grained control to be able
to make certain updates public or private.

Peter
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Old 07-26-2012, 03:22 PM
Máirín Duffy
 
Default Fedora Board Recap - 2012-07-25

On Thu, 2012-07-26 at 14:15 +0000, "Jóhann B. Guđmundsson" wrote:
> Perhaps the mistake we have been doing all this time is that we have
> been to focused on using trac ( most likely due to the fact
> infrastructure was/is familiar with it ) to handle requests instead of
> something that well was designed to handle this. At the university
> where I was working we used Best Practical's request tracker [1] to
> handle these issues and here at the IBM partners which I currently work
> for we are using JIRA.

Would it be too simplistic of me, some 20 messages deep into this thread
beyond where it was pointed out that the board trac tickets are private,
to suggest that someone on the board simply copy/paste the relevant text
so those of us not on the board can read the requested information?

Copy/paste is certainly not as engineered as x and y trac plugins and
automated public/private sensitivity whatever, but it certainly gets the
job done.

~m

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Old 07-26-2012, 06:10 PM
Máirín Duffy
 
Default Fedora Board Recap - 2012-07-25

On Thu, 2012-07-26 at 15:35 +0000, "Jóhann B. Guđmundsson" wrote:
> Or we could just call or have an google hangout session with the board
> members where they would just read that content out loud for us, heck we
> could even record the reading for the blind.

I *think* you're trying to make the point that it's inconvenient and
there's a lot of overhead for a board member to go to the ticket on
secure boot, copy/paste the relevant section, and send it to this list.

I don't agree.

~m

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Old 07-26-2012, 06:18 PM
Josh Boyer
 
Default Fedora Board Recap - 2012-07-25

On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 2:10 PM, Máirín Duffy <duffy@fedoraproject.org> wrote:
> On Thu, 2012-07-26 at 15:35 +0000, "Jóhann B. Guđmundsson" wrote:
>> Or we could just call or have an google hangout session with the board
>> members where they would just read that content out loud for us, heck we
>> could even record the reading for the blind.
>
> I *think* you're trying to make the point that it's inconvenient and
> there's a lot of overhead for a board member to go to the ticket on
> secure boot, copy/paste the relevant section, and send it to this list.

There is no particular relevant section. It's a trac ticket, which is
basically a (poorly) threaded conversation across many comments. You'd
need the whole ticket.

> I don't agree.

I don't agree it's much of a burden either. If it were done, one would
only need to take care that the threading is essentially preserved.

josh
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