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Old 08-07-2012, 05:14 AM
Tim
 
Default Proposal request for ideas on naming Fedora releases.

On Tue, 2012-08-07 at 00:48 -0400, Doug wrote:
> Well, here's my 2: I think naming is dumb, *because* there is no
> logical sequence to it--the reader does not know whether the named
> version is current, last year's, or 2005's.

The naming is in *addition* to the release number. There's no technical
problem in giving it a name. Just, perhaps, a logistical problem if
people keep referring to names that people are unfamiliar with.

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Old 08-07-2012, 11:34 AM
Marko Vojinovic
 
Default Proposal request for ideas on naming Fedora releases.

On Tuesday, 7. August 2012. 14.44.32 Tim wrote:
> On Tue, 2012-08-07 at 00:48 -0400, Doug wrote:
> > Well, here's my 2: I think naming is dumb, *because* there is no
> > logical sequence to it--the reader does not know whether the named
> > version is current, last year's, or 2005's.
>
> The naming is in *addition* to the release number. There's no technical
> problem in giving it a name. Just, perhaps, a logistical problem if
> people keep referring to names that people are unfamiliar with.

Also, giving a name to the particular release of a distro has a
social/emotional character, like giving a name to a newborn child. It is only
natural that developers are emotionally attached to their latest "creation",
and want to give it a name, a form of personal touch.

People do the same thing for servers, CPU's, automobiles, fishing rods, dogs,
cats, hurricanes, etc... It happens all the time, and is a very natural human
behavior.

Folks who dislike giving a name to a distro don't need to participate in the
naming process. As for criticizing the idea, they should first think if they
would be willing to name their newborn son as "Child-25/07/2012-male", or
would they prefer to call him "Frank Jr.". ;-)

HTH, :-)
Marko


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Old 08-07-2012, 06:45 PM
Tim
 
Default Proposal request for ideas on naming Fedora releases.

On Tue, 2012-08-07 at 13:34 +0200, Marko Vojinovic wrote:
> giving a name to the particular release of a distro has a
> social/emotional character, like giving a name to a newborn child. It
> is only natural that developers are emotionally attached to their
> latest "creation", and want to give it a name, a form of personal
> touch.

Likewise for the naming of other things, such as naming computers on the
network. I would put a bit of thought into mine, rather than just
calling it "server." Windows machines tended to be given hateful names
from mythology. ;-) e.g. We called a mail server Pandora, after
Pandora's Box, where all the evil in the world supposedly came from. It
seemed appropriate at the time, and still does. And I sent one PC back
to its owner, who was forever killing it, named Lazarus.
>
> As for criticizing the idea, they should first think if they
> would be willing to name their newborn son as
> "Child-25/07/2012-male",

I am not a number... ;-)




(That'll probably go right over the heads of many list members.)



--
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Don't send private replies to my address, the mailbox is ignored. I
read messages from the public lists.



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Old 08-07-2012, 07:48 PM
Joe Zeff
 
Default Proposal request for ideas on naming Fedora releases.

On 08/07/2012 11:45 AM, Tim wrote:

I am not a number... ;-)




(That'll probably go right over the heads of many list members.)


Considering that I referenced it about a month or so ago, I hope not.
BTW, I don't know why Number 6 objected so much considering his former
experience:


"They've given you a number,
And taken 'way your name!"

And while we're on the subject, let's not forget Ralph 124C 41+.
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Old 08-11-2012, 07:41 PM
"Eddie G. O'Connor Jr."
 
Default Proposal request for ideas on naming Fedora releases.

On 08/07/2012 07:34 AM, Marko Vojinovic wrote:

On Tuesday, 7. August 2012. 14.44.32 Tim wrote:

On Tue, 2012-08-07 at 00:48 -0400, Doug wrote:

Well, here's my 2: I think naming is dumb, *because* there is no
logical sequence to it--the reader does not know whether the named
version is current, last year's, or 2005's.

The naming is in *addition* to the release number. There's no technical
problem in giving it a name. Just, perhaps, a logistical problem if
people keep referring to names that people are unfamiliar with.

Also, giving a name to the particular release of a distro has a
social/emotional character, like giving a name to a newborn child. It is only
natural that developers are emotionally attached to their latest "creation",
and want to give it a name, a form of personal touch.

People do the same thing for servers, CPU's, automobiles, fishing rods, dogs,
cats, hurricanes, etc... It happens all the time, and is a very natural human
behavior.

Folks who dislike giving a name to a distro don't need to participate in the
naming process. As for criticizing the idea, they should first think if they
would be willing to name their newborn son as "Child-25/07/2012-male", or
would they prefer to call him "Frank Jr.". ;-)

HTH, :-)
Marko


As far as I can see, there's no imminent harm to giving a new release of
an OS a name, if anything it gives it an identity, something to
associate it with, such as when two developers are talking and one says
have you seen the splash screens for "Verne"?....with the two of them
BOTH knowing what Fedora 16's "name" is. If someone doesn't think an OS
release shouldn't' be named they can just ignore the name and go ahead
and call it by whatever makes them happy! Remember Linux is all about
"Freedom Of Choice"...whatever you choose to do, (within bounds of
course!) is fine!



EGO II
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Old 08-11-2012, 08:20 PM
Joe Zeff
 
Default Proposal request for ideas on naming Fedora releases.

On 08/11/2012 12:41 PM, Eddie G. O'Connor Jr. wrote:

As far as I can see, there's no imminent harm to giving a new release of
an OS a name, if anything it gives it an identity, something to
associate it with, such as when two developers are talking and one says
have you seen the splash screens for "Verne"?....with the two of them
BOTH knowing what Fedora 16's "name" is. If someone doesn't think an OS
release shouldn't' be named they can just ignore the name and go ahead
and call it by whatever makes them happy! Remember Linux is all about
"Freedom Of Choice"...whatever you choose to do, (within bounds of
course!) is fine!


I have no problems, personally, in naming releases. I'm sure it's much
easier for the devs to refer to them by name, especially in
conversation. And, for some distros, such as Ubuntu, the userbase tends
to use the names, not release number, making the names even more
important. My objection to the name for F17 is that it sounds immature,
rather as though it had been picked by a thirteen-year-old boy suffering
from testosterone overload for the first time. Yes, I understand that
it was picked to honor the memory of a well-liked Fedora developer, but
that's what it looks like to me.


Names can be a good thing, but an ill-chosen one can be a PR nightmare.
I think that the only reason we've not had trouble over Beefy Miracle
is the fact that most people who know anything about Fedora tend to
ignore the names and those who don't mostly know why it got the name.
This time, we got lucky and didn't end up with a metric butload of bad
publicity. In the future, I think that some of the more mature devs
might want to take a little time to make sure that we use a little
common sense and avoid such names.


YMMV, and if it does, please remember that the above is only my opinion
and you're free to ignore it if you want.

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Old 08-11-2012, 08:35 PM
inode0
 
Default Proposal request for ideas on naming Fedora releases.

On Sat, Aug 11, 2012 at 3:20 PM, Joe Zeff <joe@zeff.us> wrote:
> On 08/11/2012 12:41 PM, Eddie G. O'Connor Jr. wrote:
>>
>> As far as I can see, there's no imminent harm to giving a new release of
>> an OS a name, if anything it gives it an identity, something to
>> associate it with, such as when two developers are talking and one says
>> have you seen the splash screens for "Verne"?....with the two of them
>> BOTH knowing what Fedora 16's "name" is. If someone doesn't think an OS
>> release shouldn't' be named they can just ignore the name and go ahead
>> and call it by whatever makes them happy! Remember Linux is all about
>> "Freedom Of Choice"...whatever you choose to do, (within bounds of
>> course!) is fine!
>
>
> I have no problems, personally, in naming releases. I'm sure it's much
> easier for the devs to refer to them by name, especially in conversation.
> And, for some distros, such as Ubuntu, the userbase tends to use the names,
> not release number, making the names even more important. My objection to
> the name for F17 is that it sounds immature, rather as though it had been
> picked by a thirteen-year-old boy suffering from testosterone overload for
> the first time. Yes, I understand that it was picked to honor the memory of
> a well-liked Fedora developer, but that's what it looks like to me.

I don't think it was picked to honor anyone, but if you want to know
who the immature testosterone overloaded contributor was you can see
who nominated the name Beefy Miracle here:

https://fedoraproject.org/w/index.php?title=Name_suggestions_for_Fedora_16&dif f=224955&oldid=224952

I think you will be surprised.

> Names can be a good thing, but an ill-chosen one can be a PR nightmare. I
> think that the only reason we've not had trouble over Beefy Miracle is the
> fact that most people who know anything about Fedora tend to ignore the
> names and those who don't mostly know why it got the name. This time, we got
> lucky and didn't end up with a metric butload of bad publicity. In the
> future, I think that some of the more mature devs might want to take a
> little time to make sure that we use a little common sense and avoid such
> names.

While I originally felt the way you seem to feel about Beefy Miracle
the facts proved both of us wrong. Those who said it would inject fun
into the community, be good for marketing, and show we have a sense of
humor were right.

John
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Old 08-11-2012, 08:55 PM
Joe Zeff
 
Default Proposal request for ideas on naming Fedora releases.

On 08/11/2012 01:35 PM, inode0 wrote:

I don't think it was picked to honor anyone, but if you want to know
who the immature testosterone overloaded contributor was you can see
who nominated the name Beefy Miracle here:

https://fedoraproject.org/w/index.php?title=Name_suggestions_for_Fedora_16&dif f=224955&oldid=224952

I think you will be surprised.


If there's anything there to identify the contributor, I didn't see it.
No matter. And, I didn't say that it was suggested by a
thirteen-year-old boy, but that it sounded like it was. Big difference.

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Old 08-11-2012, 08:56 PM
inode0
 
Default Proposal request for ideas on naming Fedora releases.

On Sat, Aug 11, 2012 at 3:55 PM, Joe Zeff <joe@zeff.us> wrote:
> On 08/11/2012 01:35 PM, inode0 wrote:
>>
>> I don't think it was picked to honor anyone, but if you want to know
>> who the immature testosterone overloaded contributor was you can see
>> who nominated the name Beefy Miracle here:
>>
>>
>> https://fedoraproject.org/w/index.php?title=Name_suggestions_for_Fedora_16&dif f=224955&oldid=224952
>>
>> I think you will be surprised.
>
> If there's anything there to identify the contributor, I didn't see it. No
> matter. And, I didn't say that it was suggested by a thirteen-year-old boy,
> but that it sounded like it was. Big difference.

I know you didn't say it was but I just wanted to point out it was
proposed by someone very savvy about the community and about PR.

https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Mspevack

John
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Old 08-11-2012, 11:16 PM
"Eddie G. O'Connor Jr."
 
Default Proposal request for ideas on naming Fedora releases.

On 08/11/2012 04:20 PM, Joe Zeff wrote:


On
08/11/2012 12:41 PM, Eddie G. O'Connor Jr. wrote:


As far as I can see, there's no imminent
harm to giving a new release of


an OS a name, if anything it gives it an identity, something to


associate it with, such as when two developers are talking and
one says


have you seen the splash screens for "Verne"?....with the two of
them


BOTH knowing what Fedora 16's "name" is. If someone doesn't
think an OS


release shouldn't' be named they can just ignore the name and go
ahead


and call it by whatever makes them happy! Remember Linux is all
about


"Freedom Of Choice"...whatever you choose to do, (within bounds
of


course!) is fine!





I have no problems, personally, in naming releases.* I'm sure
it's* much easier for the devs to refer to them by name,
especially in conversation.* And, for some distros, such as
Ubuntu, the userbase tends to use the names, not release number,
making the names even more important.* My objection to the name
for F17 is that it sounds immature, rather as though it had been
picked by a thirteen-year-old boy suffering from testosterone
overload for the first time.* Yes, I understand that it was picked
to honor the memory of a well-liked Fedora developer, but that's
what it looks like to me.




Names can be a good thing, but an ill-chosen one can be a PR
nightmare. *I think that the only reason we've not had trouble
over Beefy Miracle is the fact that most people who know anything
about Fedora tend to ignore the names and those who don't mostly
know why it got the name. This time, we got lucky and didn't end
up with a metric butload of bad publicity.* In the future, I think
that some of the more mature devs might want to take a little time
to make sure that we use a little common sense and avoid such
names.




YMMV, and if it does, please remember that the above is only my
opinion and you're free to ignore it if you want.



No worries Joe! I feel that we can all contribute something
to this great project known as Fedora, so even YOUR opinion
counts!...As for myself....I'd like to see the names go in a more
"Start Trek / Star Wars / Battlestar Galactica" direction
myself......but hey....here's to hoping!...





EGO II



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