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Old 03-26-2012, 01:48 PM
Nicu Buculei
 
Default Connotation analysis for Fedora Project codenames

On 03/26/2012 03:11 PM, Rajesh Ranjan wrote:


A single person or two-three persons cannot do it. Understanding
cultures of diff geos is not an easy task.
I think after selecting some three-four names we can ask for the help on
lists like translation or ambassador @ fedoraproject.org. translation
list have around 100 langauge people and they can be good resources for
the same. Generally properietary companies do this work through LSPs or
Translation Agencies. But we can post it to our translation list by
creating a page where they can put their commnets. It is just an idea.
We can think some better ways also by discussing among us.


That's way too much bureaucracy, we are not a proprietary company, we
are an open community and is supposed to be fun.
Really, is is only a quarter of that effort, then better drop the names
altogether (and I like the idea of having release names).


--
nicu :: http://nicubunu.ro :: http://nicubunu.blogspot.com/
photography: http://photoblog.nicubunu.ro/
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Old 03-26-2012, 02:26 PM
Bill Nottingham
 
Default Connotation analysis for Fedora Project codenames

Robert 'Bob' Jensen (bob@fedoraunity.org) said:
> +1
>
> Many of us have been suggesting this for years. How can we make it reality?

The Board could always take a simple vote; they've been invested with that
sort of power..

Bill
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Old 03-26-2012, 02:45 PM
Jaroslav Reznik
 
Default Connotation analysis for Fedora Project codenames

----- Original Message -----
> On 03/26/2012 03:11 PM, Rajesh Ranjan wrote:
> >
> > A single person or two-three persons cannot do it. Understanding
> > cultures of diff geos is not an easy task.
> > I think after selecting some three-four names we can ask for the
> > help on
> > lists like translation or ambassador @ fedoraproject.org.
> > translation
> > list have around 100 langauge people and they can be good resources
> > for
> > the same. Generally properietary companies do this work through
> > LSPs or
> > Translation Agencies. But we can post it to our translation list by
> > creating a page where they can put their commnets. It is just an
> > idea.
> > We can think some better ways also by discussing among us.
>
> That's way too much bureaucracy, we are not a proprietary company, we
> are an open community and is supposed to be fun.
> Really, is is only a quarter of that effort, then better drop the
> names
> altogether (and I like the idea of having release names).

To avoid bureaucracy it can be part of names proposal - just comment it
on the wiki, then Board can evaluate it.

What we need is to make this part of proposal more visible, as you said,
we are small open community and if nobody steps into during this proposal
time, then we can't do anything...

As I wasn't a Board member during the F8 name selection, I think it was
unfortunate to not communicate it properly with Ralf (as I understand from
his mail and I would probably let it pass considering the facts I have ;-).

The important thing is still - we have a lot more subprojects that needs
name and probably calling them Tool X, where X can be <1, infinity) is not
a good idea so we will still need a "process" for this. Even we discard
release names.

Jaroslav

> --
> nicu :: http://nicubunu.ro :: http://nicubunu.blogspot.com/
> photography: http://photoblog.nicubunu.ro/
> _______________________________________________
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Old 03-26-2012, 03:48 PM
inode0
 
Default Connotation analysis for Fedora Project codenames

On Mon, Mar 26, 2012 at 7:11 AM, Rajesh Ranjan <rranjan@redhat.com> wrote:
> A single person or two-three persons cannot do it. Understanding cultures of
> diff geos is not an easy task.

Right. But without volunteers lining up to do the work, however many
that might require, it won't happen.

> I think after selecting some three-four names we can ask for the help on
> lists like translation or ambassador @ fedoraproject.org. translation list
> have around 100 langauge people and they can be good resources for the same.
> Generally properietary companies do this work through LSPs or Translation
> Agencies. But we can post it to our translation list by creating a page
> where they can put their commnets. It is just an idea. We can think some
> better ways also by discussing among us.

I'm sympathetic to your goal here but I do think we are in a sense
going about this backwards. We don't even know if we have anyone much
less enough people interested in doing this to make it work and before
we change processes to include this work we should see (a) enough
interest in the community and (b) useful output from their analysis.

If the Board is interested in asking the translation folks fine. But
anyone interested can discuss this with them and see if there are
enough people interested in working on this too. It doesn't need to
block here if the Board doesn't want to champion it. If there are
enough people, work through some process they come up with to look at
F18 names. I suspect such an effort will just organically become part
of the process if it produces helpful information.

John
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Old 03-26-2012, 06:45 PM
Toshio Kuratomi
 
Default Connotation analysis for Fedora Project codenames

On Mon, Mar 26, 2012 at 10:26:53AM -0400, Bill Nottingham wrote:
> Robert 'Bob' Jensen (bob@fedoraunity.org) said:
> > +1
> >
> > Many of us have been suggesting this for years. How can we make it reality?
>
> The Board could always take a simple vote; they've been invested with that
> sort of power..
>
So it seems that among the respondents to this question on this list, the
most popular option is to get rid of release names. There have been a few
voices asking for either a defined small change to the process targetted
specifically at analyzing names for potential offensiveness in
a multicultural project, and a few voices that have asked for a larger
change to the way names are decided upon (and I think that some of the "get
rid of release names" would be okay with some subset of possible new ways
a release name gets decided).

The arguments for keeping some sort of release name are:

* It gives the distro less of a "cold" feel to the press and potential new
users of Fedora.

An argument for continuing voting is:
* It gives new contributors a feeling of belonging to the community of
Fedora Contributors

Some ideas for small change were:
* Ask translators and ambassadors to review the potential names for
offensive connotations.
* Put an extra column on the wiki to specifically highlight that the release
names should be vetted by the community for potential offensiveness.
* Ask the Board specically to filter for potential offensiveness.
* Define "potential offensivness" so that we know what we're looking for and
what we're considering to small to worry about.

The argument for dropping the release names altogether was that the reward
they give to us is small compared to the costs of creating, vetting, and
voting on them. The additionaly costs about doing an analysis of the
connotations of potential release names was just a reminder that the present
costs are not zero and that een small increases in cost may not be justified
if the benefits are also small.

As a Board member, I am leary of unilaterally removing anything that is seen
as a power granted to the contributors (in this case, deciding on the
release name via voting) but I think I agree with the argument that the
benefits of the release name to the Fedora release product are small. I'd
be interested in Rex's poll on the F18 release name vote to find out if
there's a majority of (voting) contributors who would like the release name
to simply go away.

I'd also be interested if anyone that likes the release names was interested
in making an alternate proposal for deciding on it that makes it higher
value (marketing team decides; name the release after significant features
of the release. Go with a single theme for names, etc).

-Toshio
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Old 03-26-2012, 07:05 PM
mario juliano grande balletta
 
Default Connotation analysis for Fedora Project codenames

No one owns the planets, stars, galaxies, etc. Using names from
nature could offer an endless supply of possibilities and also avoids
cultural issues, unless there are any Raelians in the community
(kidding :-).

Imagine Fedora 18 ( Orion ) or Fedora 18 ( Wombat ) or Fedora 18 ( Everest )

see the idea?

On Mon, Mar 26, 2012 at 2:45 PM, Toshio Kuratomi <a.badger@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, Mar 26, 2012 at 10:26:53AM -0400, Bill Nottingham wrote:
>> Robert 'Bob' Jensen (bob@fedoraunity.org) said:
>> > +1
>> >
>> > Many of us have been suggesting this for years. How can we make it reality?
>>
>> The Board could always take a simple vote; they've been invested with that
>> sort of power..
>>
> So it seems that among the respondents to this question on this list, the
> most popular option is to get rid of release names. *There have been a few
> voices asking for either a defined small change to the process targetted
> specifically at analyzing names for potential offensiveness in
> a multicultural project, and a few voices that have asked for a larger
> change to the way names are decided upon (and I think that some of the "get
> rid of release names" would be okay with some subset of possible new ways
> a release name gets decided).
>
> The arguments for keeping some sort of release name are:
>
> * It gives the distro less of a "cold" feel to the press and potential new
> *users of Fedora.
>
> An argument for continuing voting is:
> * It gives new contributors a feeling of belonging to the community of
> *Fedora Contributors
>
> Some ideas for small change were:
> * Ask translators and ambassadors to review the potential names for
> *offensive connotations.
> * Put an extra column on the wiki to specifically highlight that the release
> *names should be vetted by the community for potential offensiveness.
> * Ask the Board specically to filter for potential offensiveness.
> * Define "potential offensivness" so that we know what we're looking for and
> *what we're considering to small to worry about.
>
> The argument for dropping the release names altogether was that the reward
> they give to us is small compared to the costs of creating, vetting, and
> voting on them. *The additionaly costs about doing an analysis of the
> connotations of potential release names was just a reminder that the present
> costs are not zero and that een small increases in cost may not be justified
> if the benefits are also small.
>
> As a Board member, I am leary of unilaterally removing anything that is seen
> as a power granted to the contributors (in this case, deciding on the
> release name via voting) but I think I agree with the argument that the
> benefits of the release name to the Fedora release product are small. *I'd
> be interested in Rex's poll on the F18 release name vote to find out if
> there's a majority of (voting) contributors who would like the release name
> to simply go away.
>
> I'd also be interested if anyone that likes the release names was interested
> in making an alternate proposal for deciding on it that makes it higher
> value (marketing team decides; name the release after significant features
> of the release. *Go with a single theme for names, etc).
>
> -Toshio
>
> _______________________________________________
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> advisory-board@lists.fedoraproject.org
> https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/advisory-board
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Old 03-26-2012, 07:17 PM
Josh Boyer
 
Default Connotation analysis for Fedora Project codenames

On Mon, Mar 26, 2012 at 3:05 PM, mario juliano grande balletta
<mario.balletta@gmail.com> wrote:
> No one owns the planets, stars, galaxies, etc. *Using names from
> nature could offer an endless supply of possibilities and also avoids
> cultural issues, unless there are any Raelians in the community
> (kidding :-).
>
> Imagine Fedora 18 ( Orion ) *or Fedora 18 ( Wombat ) *or Fedora 18 ( Everest )
>
> see the idea?

It's quite recognized that Mars is the God of War. Are you suggesting
Fedora should use a release name that promotes war? Pluto is the God of
the Underworld. Names of deities can be offensive to atheists.

See the idea? People can get offended by anything.

josh
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Old 03-26-2012, 11:37 PM
mario juliano grande balletta
 
Default Connotation analysis for Fedora Project codenames

Good point! I stand corrected! You never know what someone will find
offensive. Thx for reminding me about that! I guess I have no choice
, I withdraw my suggestions.

I appreciate the feedback and for letting me participate. It's the
best way to learn my around the community.

Thx again!
:-)

On Mon, Mar 26, 2012 at 3:17 PM, Josh Boyer <jwboyer@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, Mar 26, 2012 at 3:05 PM, mario juliano grande balletta
> <mario.balletta@gmail.com> wrote:
>> No one owns the planets, stars, galaxies, etc. *Using names from
>> nature could offer an endless supply of possibilities and also avoids
>> cultural issues, unless there are any Raelians in the community
>> (kidding :-).
>>
>> Imagine Fedora 18 ( Orion ) *or Fedora 18 ( Wombat ) *or Fedora 18 ( Everest )
>>
>> see the idea?
>
> It's quite recognized that Mars is the God of War. *Are you suggesting
> Fedora should use a release name that promotes war? *Pluto is the God of
> the Underworld. *Names of deities can be offensive to atheists.
>
> See the idea? *People can get offended by anything.
>
> josh
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Old 03-27-2012, 12:18 AM
Robyn Bergeron
 
Default Connotation analysis for Fedora Project codenames

On 03/26/2012 04:46 PM, "Jˇhann B. Gu­mundsson" wrote:

On 03/26/2012 06:45 PM, Toshio Kuratomi wrote:

18 release name vote to find out if
there's a majority of (voting) contributors who would like the
release name

to simply go away.


Has it been looked into how many ( % ) of active contributors have
voted in the release naming process each given cycle?
Not necessarily in %, but the total number of votes cast is reported
with each set of election results.


--------------

The Fedora 17 release name is: Beefy Miracle

Voting period: Tuesday 2011-11-04 00:00:00 UTC to Monday 2011-10-10
23:59:59 UTC
Number of valid ballots cast: 292
------------

The Fedora 16 release name is: Verne

Voting period: Tuesday 2011-04-05 00:00:00 to Monday 2011-04-11 23:59:59
Number of valid ballots cast: 421

------------

The Fedora 15 release name is: Lovelock

Voting period: Tuesday 2010-10-26 00:00:00 to Monday 2010-11-01 23:59:59
Number of valid ballots cast: 296

-----------

The Fedora 14 release name is:

Laughlin

Following are the full election results.

* * *

Voting period: Tue 2010-05-04 00:00:01 - Mon 2010-05-10 00:00:01
Number of valid ballots cast: 206

-----------

......13 (Goddard) had 313 ballots, 12 (Constantine) had 393 ballots, 11 (Leonidas) had 310, 10 (Cambridge) had 390 ballots.

Interestingly, the results for F10 actually included the number of users eligible to vote, in addition to the number of valid ballots that were cast. I didn't see anything since then in any of the announcements that reflected the eligible voter number.

http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/devel-announce/2008-July/000249.html


-robyn






JBG
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Old 03-27-2012, 08:36 AM
Nicu Buculei
 
Default Connotation analysis for Fedora Project codenames

On 03/27/2012 09:58 AM, "Jˇhann B. Gu­mundsson" wrote:

On 03/27/2012 12:18 AM, Robyn Bergeron wrote:

On 03/26/2012 04:46 PM, "Jˇhann B. Gu­mundsson" wrote:


Has it been looked into how many ( % ) of active contributors have
voted in the release naming process each given cycle?

Not necessarily in %, but the total number of votes cast is reported
with each set of election results.


I would think that before deciding anything you will have to know how
many community members actually bother/care enough to vote.


Low voter participation is not necessarily an indicator people find the
feature unuseful or wanting it abolished. For example if voter
participation is equally low for Board or FESCo membership, do we
abolish the Board or FESCo?


The only way to have some valid data points is, as was already proposed,
put "drop release names" as an entry for the next vote. I fell it will
be a fun vote


--
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photography: http://photoblog.nicubunu.ro/
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