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Old 03-23-2012, 04:17 PM
Zoltan Hoppar
 
Default Connotation analysis for Fedora Project codenames

Hi

My personal opinion - partially agree with who says that we have to
drop this current form of naming process. But for entirely, is
bullshit. Why?

Well,
- People are giving names their kids right? Fedora isn't the kid of
our community?
- Why couldn't we choose only an name that we could build an entire
marketing campaign, and get an advantage from curious or playful
hacked names? Why couldn't we make associations with names, and show
development curve - what we have done? Why couldn't we target an main
feature, and associate an name to it?
- Fedora is basically as we say bleeding edge, pioneering - right? Why
couldn't say we are naming after scientists, inventors - dead or
living one doesn't matter - and gain support from institutes....
earlier we did dedication to our distribution, right? Let me ask - how
many website has picked up our distro and introduced Fedora?

A distribution, without a name, is without personality, or identity.
If it has no identity, then it means we have a huge trouble.



2012/3/23 Randall Berry <randyn3lrx@gmail.com>:
> On 03/23/2012 12:27 PM, Brian Pepple wrote:
>> On Fri, 2012-03-23 at 10:24 -0400, seth vidal wrote:
>>> I think we should drop the naming process altogether.
>>>
>>> For the following reasons:
>>>
>>> 1. the names do not serve any use
>>> 2. the names are a waste of time and effort to administer the process
>>> 3. no one remembers the names.
>>> 4. the names are potentially divisive.
>>>
>>> Let's do away with naming releases altogether and side step this entire
>>> issue.
>>
>> +1.
>>
>> Later,
>> /B
>
> +1
>
> Dropping the release names sounds good to me.
>
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> advisory-board@lists.fedoraproject.org
> https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/advisory-board



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Old 03-23-2012, 05:36 PM
Ed Greshko
 
Default Connotation analysis for Fedora Project codenames

On 03/24/2012 12:27 AM, Brian Pepple wrote:
> On Fri, 2012-03-23 at 10:24 -0400, seth vidal wrote:
>> I think we should drop the naming process altogether.
>>
>> For the following reasons:
>>
>> 1. the names do not serve any use
>> 2. the names are a waste of time and effort to administer the process
>> 3. no one remembers the names.
>> 4. the names are potentially divisive.
>>
>> Let's do away with naming releases altogether and side step this entire
>> issue.
> +1.
>
>

+1


--
Do not condemn the judgment of another because it differs from your own. You may both
be wrong. -- Dandemis
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Old 03-23-2012, 07:35 PM
Toshio Kuratomi
 
Default Connotation analysis for Fedora Project codenames

On Fri, Mar 23, 2012 at 10:43:39AM -0500, inode0 wrote:
> On Fri, Mar 23, 2012 at 10:28 AM, Jaroslav Reznik <jreznik@redhat.com> wrote:
> > But it's not only about the name for Fedora release, also for
> > the other projects coming from Fedora. We have a few projects,
> > that makes feelings even in the US...
>
> For those of us who can't read the ticket you refer to can you give us
> some examples of names we have used that are considered problematic
> and why?
>
The ticket concentrated on the name "Beefy Miracle" and how the slaughter of
cattle goes against the sensibilities of many people within India...
reflected not just in some of the religons there but also in the secular
laws and basic culture.

I'm understating the case that was made here as I don't want to raise the
emotional level of this conversation. The ticket did an admirable job of
keeping the inherent emotionalness of the subject separate from the
analytics of the naminbg process. I just don't trust that I can do as good
a job :-)

-Toshio
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Old 03-26-2012, 02:29 AM
Rajesh Ranjan
 
Default Connotation analysis for Fedora Project codenames

No problem, in making it public, already discussion has started
here.

*

Forwarding all.



Rajesh



On शुक्रवार* 23 मार्च 2012 09:45 अपराह्न, Jaroslav Reznik wrote:

Richard,
unfortunately it's a private Board ticket. We wanted to make
the discussion wider, so this thread was started. The reporter
wanted to proceed first in private place and I accept it. I can
ask Rajesh, if he could forward the content of ticket here.

https://fedorahosted.org/board/ticket/135

R.

----- Original Message -----


On Fri, Mar 23, 2012 at 10:14:36AM -0400, Jaroslav Reznik wrote:


Hi,
there's ongoing discussion about the connotation analysis
of Fedora Project code names (so not only for Fedora itself
but other sub-projects too) started by Rajesh Ranjan (thanks
for ticket!).



Could you provide people with a link to this ticket?

- RF

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--

Regards,

Rajesh Ranjan

Language Maintainer, Hindi

www.rajeshranjan.in




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Old 03-26-2012, 03:51 AM
Rajesh Ranjan
 
Default Connotation analysis for Fedora Project codenames

On शुक्रवार 23 मार्च 2012 07:54 अपराह्न, seth vidal wrote:

On Fri, 23 Mar 2012 10:14:36 -0400 (EDT)
Jaroslav Reznik<jreznik@redhat.com> wrote:


Hi,
there's ongoing discussion about the connotation analysis
of Fedora Project code names (so not only for Fedora itself
but other sub-projects too) started by Rajesh Ranjan (thanks
for ticket!).

It's a right time to get an input from community as there's
currently running Fedora 18 codename process [1].

As Rajesh posted to Fedora Board Track ticket, connotation is
"the emotional and imaginative association for a word, where
denotation is the strict dictionary meaning of a word."

Current process for selecting next code name is - community
members suggests the name, there's publicly accessible list for
everyone, then Board goes through the suggested names list to
remove the clear examples of names breaking the policy (yeah,
usually it's one search term in Google to find out the name has
to be ruled out, but that's Board deal ;-) and this list is
sent to Red Hat legal for proper legal review. Then the voting
is opened for everyone with valid FAS account and only names
that passed the process are allowed.

In Fedora we believe in freedom and openness, we don't have to
stick to the strict "corporate-like| rules but on the other hand we
should respect our community and we don't want to offend anyone
consciously.

Usually, we use the common sense to rule out offending stuff but
also we (and Board neither) don't have a degree in sociology,
politics, religion and our geek culture is also from the another
universe .

As I already pointed out - the process is open. Anybody can step
into in the early phase of naming selection and comment the
potential problems. And I believe the Board members will think
about the concerns raised (at least me ;-).

So personally I'd like to avoid any strict rule/policy as it could
hurt our community, we don't have a proper set of skills to do
the full analysis during the Board turn and I really hope with help
provided by community we can avoid the naming problems in the
future - just we need your, community, input.

Any thoughts?


I think we should drop the naming process altogether.

For the following reasons:

1. the names do not serve any use
2. the names are a waste of time and effort to administer the process
3. no one remembers the names.
4. the names are potentially divisive.

Let's do away with naming releases altogether and side step this entire
issue.

Thanks,
-sv


Even for nunbers, companies consider Connotation analysis:

http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9011318/MS_Office_to_skip_past_unlucky_13_in_2009

Lots of work and research people do in name selection:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/12/world/asia/picking-brand-names-in-china-is-a-business-itself.html?_r=1&pagewanted=all

regards,
Rajesh


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Old 03-26-2012, 04:08 AM
inode0
 
Default Connotation analysis for Fedora Project codenames

On Sun, Mar 25, 2012 at 10:51 PM, Rajesh Ranjan <rranjan@redhat.com> wrote:
> Even for nunbers, companies consider Connotation analysis:
>
> http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9011318/MS_Office_to_skip_past_unlucky_13_in_2009
>
> Lots of work and research people do in name selection:
>
> http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/12/world/asia/picking-brand-names-in-china-is-a-business-itself.html?_r=1&pagewanted=all

Do you want someone else to do this? I don't see anything preventing
someone interested in this from just doing it and reporting the
results of their analysis back to the Board now.

I do recall discussion about F13 and whether or not we should skip
that one. I think we are sensitive about trying not to offend anyone
but inevitably since we can't devote armies of lawyers and marketing
people to research every name we use we rely on the good sense of
contributors and feedback from the community. I would be interested in
seeing such an analysis done on F18 names if someone would like to
volunteer to do it.

John
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Old 03-26-2012, 12:11 PM
Rajesh Ranjan
 
Default Connotation analysis for Fedora Project codenames

On सोमवार 26 मार्च 2012 09:38 पूर्वाह्न, inode0 wrote:

On Sun, Mar 25, 2012 at 10:51 PM, Rajesh Ranjan<rranjan@redhat.com> wrote:

Even for nunbers, companies consider Connotation analysis:

http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9011318/MS_Office_to_skip_past_unlucky_13_in_2009

Lots of work and research people do in name selection:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/12/world/asia/picking-brand-names-in-china-is-a-business-itself.html?_r=1&pagewanted=all

Do you want someone else to do this? I don't see anything preventing
someone interested in this from just doing it and reporting the
results of their analysis back to the Board now.

I do recall discussion about F13 and whether or not we should skip
that one. I think we are sensitive about trying not to offend anyone
but inevitably since we can't devote armies of lawyers and marketing
people to research every name we use we rely on the good sense of
contributors and feedback from the community. I would be interested in
seeing such an analysis done on F18 names if someone would like to
volunteer to do it.

John
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A single person or two-three persons cannot do it. Understanding cultures of diff geos is not an easy task.
I think after selecting some three-four names we can ask for the help on lists like translation or ambassador @ fedoraproject.org. translation list have around 100 langauge people and they can be good resources for the same. Generally properietary companies do this work through LSPs or Translation Agencies. But we can post it to our translation list by creating a page where they can put their commnets. It is just an idea. We can think some better ways also by discussing among us.

Regards,
Rajesh


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Old 03-26-2012, 01:05 PM
Matthias Clasen
 
Default Connotation analysis for Fedora Project codenames

On Fri, 2012-03-23 at 10:24 -0400, seth vidal wrote:

> I think we should drop the naming process altogether.
>
> For the following reasons:
>
> 1. the names do not serve any use
> 2. the names are a waste of time and effort to administer the process
> 3. no one remembers the names.
> 4. the names are potentially divisive.
>
> Let's do away with naming releases altogether and side step this entire
> issue.

I agree - the naming thing started as a fun game, then it got
'standardized', and now it is just one more process that has stopped to
be either fun or useful. Apart from the problems that Seth has listed,
others have pointed out that the expected connection of the release name
to the artwork is more often than not problematic.

Time to reevaluate and come up with something fresh and fun that we can
do for each release.

How do we make that happen ?

Matthias

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Old 03-26-2012, 01:08 PM
Rex Dieter
 
Default Connotation analysis for Fedora Project codenames

On 03/26/2012 08:05 AM, Matthias Clasen wrote:

On Fri, 2012-03-23 at 10:24 -0400, seth vidal wrote:


I think we should drop the naming process altogether.

For the following reasons:

1. the names do not serve any use
2. the names are a waste of time and effort to administer the process
3. no one remembers the names.
4. the names are potentially divisive.

Let's do away with naming releases altogether and side step this entire
issue.


I agree - the naming thing started as a fun game, then it got
'standardized', and now it is just one more process that has stopped to
be either fun or useful. Apart from the problems that Seth has listed,
others have pointed out that the expected connection of the release name
to the artwork is more often than not problematic.

Time to reevaluate and come up with something fresh and fun that we can
do for each release.

How do we make that happen ?


Perhaps try to gauge the true extent of this from our contributors...
for this release cycle add another voting option: "No release name at
all", and see how popular it ends up being.


-- rex
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Old 03-26-2012, 01:26 PM
mario juliano grande balletta
 
Default Connotation analysis for Fedora Project codenames

I'm new, so if my comments are evaluated by the time I have spent with
the Fedora community, then I understand they could be quickly, but
politely dismissed. No worries there, time will come.

In the meantime, even though it is very difficult to gain concensus
from everyone in a diverse community like Fedora, to accept and adopt
a name for a release, we should still try and I think the process can
become fun again, it just takes unlocking some of the creativity and
imagination we already have and putting it down in writing.

Sure, in any organization, over time, processes and functions become
like tedium ad nauseum, and the official business like nature of tasks
can reduce the element of fun. If the fun is missing, let's put it
back!

Get some ideas, find some logos, invent new slogans, new monikers, and
once the ideas start rolling in, the fun level will increase again, if
you smile, other people will smile back, simple human nature, works on
the web too.

I have browser through so many wiki pages over the last few months,
and I have laughed so many times and read so many interesting stories
about different people, so I know the fun is there, with the people.

I decided I will also make an effort to come up with a name for F18.

My only suggestion, based on being new with Fedora, and still full of
energy and excitment to work with all of you, is simply stay positive,
focus on the fun, smile, find ways to agree, look for the good, insist
on being happy, focus on the new, and make changes!

You can do it, you're Fedora!

" fedora sumus, et oderint dum metuant! "

On Mon, Mar 26, 2012 at 9:05 AM, Matthias Clasen <mclasen@redhat.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 2012-03-23 at 10:24 -0400, seth vidal wrote:
>
>> I think we should drop the naming process altogether.
>>
>> For the following reasons:
>>
>> 1. the names do not serve any use
>> 2. the names are a waste of time and effort to administer the process
>> 3. no one remembers the names.
>> 4. the names are potentially divisive.
>>
>> Let's do away with naming releases altogether and side step this entire
>> issue.
>
> I agree - the naming thing started as a fun game, then it got
> 'standardized', and now it is just one more process that has stopped to
> be either fun or useful. Apart from the problems that Seth has listed,
> others have pointed out that the expected connection of the release name
> to the artwork is more often than not problematic.
>
> Time to reevaluate and come up with something fresh and fun that we can
> do for each release.
>
> How do we make that happen ?
>
> Matthias
>
> _______________________________________________
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