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Old 03-23-2012, 02:59 PM
Jaroslav Reznik
 
Default Connotation analysis for Fedora Project codenames

----- Original Message -----
> On 03/23/2012 05:28 PM, Jaroslav Reznik wrote:
> >
> > What will be the direct consequences? Design? I'm not sure we're
> > fond of making artwork by name anymore, it's nice, some people
> > still care but it's time consuming etc. (my feeling). For packaging
> > - the name can be just replaced by generic fedora-something...
> > Not many people using it, so it can vanish. But as I said, I
> > still feel it as a part of "us" ;-)
>
> I see the name used a lot *outside* of the distro, almost all reviews
> are using it because is adding a more personal touch to the cold
> release
> number (that and probably because Ubuntu used them with named
> releases).

Yep, from outside it's more visible. Especially Beefy Miracle made
the spot in all showrooms - for inode0 - it's the name we're
talking about. The perception of the name inside the project, the
core people (for us, Beefy Miracle has something magical and you
can imagine Bacon!) will be different compared to outside ones.
For them it could be more difficult to understand it - some people
could be offended (even we don't see reason), some people
who understand fun would be justlaughing, some would be angry...

So I don't think we have a problem inside our community but that
*outside* perception could actually sound not the way we
wanted it.

Still I feel the name as part of us as I already said

R.

> --
> nicu :: http://nicubunu.ro :: http://nicubunu.blogspot.com/
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Old 03-23-2012, 03:01 PM
Jaroslav Reznik
 
Default Connotation analysis for Fedora Project codenames

----- Original Message -----
> On Fri, 23 Mar 2012 08:33:00 -0700
> Robyn Bergeron <rbergero@redhat.com> wrote:
>
> > >>
> > > I think we should drop the naming process altogether.
> > >
> > > For the following reasons:
> > >
> > > 1. the names do not serve any use
> > I disagree; the theming for our wallpaper, as well as a moderate
> > amount (though not always infused with ridiculous amounts of puns)
> > of
> > marketing material, take inspiration from the release name.
>
> Do they? I guess I never formed a connection between the images and
> the
> names.
>

Yeah, for example Solar - the repainted moon to look like star ;-)
Now Verne with that small Nautilus in the deep waters...

R.

> -sv
>
>
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Old 03-23-2012, 03:05 PM
Richard Fontana
 
Default Connotation analysis for Fedora Project codenames

On Fri, Mar 23, 2012 at 10:14:36AM -0400, Jaroslav Reznik wrote:
> Hi,
> there's ongoing discussion about the connotation analysis
> of Fedora Project code names (so not only for Fedora itself
> but other sub-projects too) started by Rajesh Ranjan (thanks
> for ticket!).

Could you provide people with a link to this ticket?

- RF

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Old 03-23-2012, 03:06 PM
Máirín Duffy
 
Default Connotation analysis for Fedora Project codenames

On Fri, 2012-03-23 at 11:28 -0400, Jaroslav Reznik wrote:
> What will be the direct consequences? Design? I'm not sure we're
> fond of making artwork by name anymore, it's nice, some people
> still care but it's time consuming etc. (my feeling). For packaging
> - the name can be just replaced by generic fedora-something...
> Not many people using it, so it can vanish. But as I said, I
> still feel it as a part of "us" ;-)

Here's how I feel about the topic:

- The current naming system usually results in awkward names that
require lengthy explanation to those not involved. I don't like this
nature of the names because I want to inspire more people to use Fedora,
not to feel like they are missing some inside joke and unwelcome.

- We use the names to inspire the artwork, but the names are rarely
inspirational (Sulphur? ). We would do fine without them from an
artwork perspective, in my honest opinion.

- I agree with Nicu that a release number without a name is cold.

- If we were to have a name, it might be better to pick something, like
names of flowers or types of fruit or galaxies or planets or moons or
greek gods or famous scientists or bodies of water or something like
that so they move along a common theme and have less of a chance of
being offensive to someone. (Sugar uses types of candy doesn't it?
Android uses desserts? Ubuntu uses animals? These are all more appealing
than.... randomness)

- I would rather see no release name at all than the strange, awkward
things the process results in now. The format of the names is also
really difficult to understand, making it difficult for people to
participate in name suggestions. (Maybe I'm stupid, but it took me
several releases of trying to finally 'get' it and the reactions I got
to the non-compliant names I felt were full of annoyance and irritation,
and I can't say I didn't experience the same emotions either!)

~m


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Old 03-23-2012, 03:10 PM
Jaroslav Reznik
 
Default Connotation analysis for Fedora Project codenames

----- Original Message -----
> On Fri, 2012-03-23 at 11:28 -0400, Jaroslav Reznik wrote:
> > What will be the direct consequences? Design? I'm not sure we're
> > fond of making artwork by name anymore, it's nice, some people
> > still care but it's time consuming etc. (my feeling). For packaging
> > - the name can be just replaced by generic fedora-something...
> > Not many people using it, so it can vanish. But as I said, I
> > still feel it as a part of "us" ;-)
>
> Here's how I feel about the topic:
>
> - The current naming system usually results in awkward names that
> require lengthy explanation to those not involved. I don't like this
> nature of the names because I want to inspire more people to use
> Fedora,
> not to feel like they are missing some inside joke and unwelcome.

+1, see my last mail about external perception.

R.

>
> ~m
>
>
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Old 03-23-2012, 03:15 PM
Jaroslav Reznik
 
Default Connotation analysis for Fedora Project codenames

Richard,
unfortunately it's a private Board ticket. We wanted to make
the discussion wider, so this thread was started. The reporter
wanted to proceed first in private place and I accept it. I can
ask Rajesh, if he could forward the content of ticket here.

https://fedorahosted.org/board/ticket/135

R.

----- Original Message -----
> On Fri, Mar 23, 2012 at 10:14:36AM -0400, Jaroslav Reznik wrote:
> > Hi,
> > there's ongoing discussion about the connotation analysis
> > of Fedora Project code names (so not only for Fedora itself
> > but other sub-projects too) started by Rajesh Ranjan (thanks
> > for ticket!).
>
> Could you provide people with a link to this ticket?
>
> - RF
>
> _______________________________________________
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> advisory-board@lists.fedoraproject.org
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Old 03-23-2012, 03:19 PM
Jason Brooks
 
Default Connotation analysis for Fedora Project codenames

On 03/23/2012 07:24 AM, seth vidal wrote:
> On Fri, 23 Mar 2012 10:14:36 -0400 (EDT)
> Jaroslav Reznik <jreznik@redhat.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>> there's ongoing discussion about the connotation analysis
>> of Fedora Project code names (so not only for Fedora itself
>> but other sub-projects too) started by Rajesh Ranjan (thanks
>> for ticket!).
>>
>> It's a right time to get an input from community as there's
>> currently running Fedora 18 codename process [1].
>>
>> As Rajesh posted to Fedora Board Track ticket, connotation is
>> "the emotional and imaginative association for a word, where
>> denotation is the strict dictionary meaning of a word."
>>
>> Current process for selecting next code name is - community
>> members suggests the name, there's publicly accessible list for
>> everyone, then Board goes through the suggested names list to
>> remove the clear examples of names breaking the policy (yeah,
>> usually it's one search term in Google to find out the name has
>> to be ruled out, but that's Board deal ;-) and this list is
>> sent to Red Hat legal for proper legal review. Then the voting
>> is opened for everyone with valid FAS account and only names
>> that passed the process are allowed.
>>
>> In Fedora we believe in freedom and openness, we don't have to
>> stick to the strict "corporate-like| rules but on the other hand we
>> should respect our community and we don't want to offend anyone
>> consciously.
>>
>> Usually, we use the common sense to rule out offending stuff but
>> also we (and Board neither) don't have a degree in sociology,
>> politics, religion and our geek culture is also from the another
>> universe .
>>
>> As I already pointed out - the process is open. Anybody can step
>> into in the early phase of naming selection and comment the
>> potential problems. And I believe the Board members will think
>> about the concerns raised (at least me ;-).
>>
>> So personally I'd like to avoid any strict rule/policy as it could
>> hurt our community, we don't have a proper set of skills to do
>> the full analysis during the Board turn and I really hope with help
>> provided by community we can avoid the naming problems in the
>> future - just we need your, community, input.
>>
>> Any thoughts?
>>
>
> I think we should drop the naming process altogether.
>
> For the following reasons:
>
> 1. the names do not serve any use

In the ubuntu world, I find the names very useful as search keywords.
It's much easier to isolate material associated with a certain release
with a not-too-common keyword.

Ubuntu uses their names a lot more heavily than Fedora does, though --
people rarely refer to Fedora releases by name, and the names aren't
part of the repo structure or anything like they are with Ubuntu.

Names can be useful, but Fedora hasn't made much use of them.


> 2. the names are a waste of time and effort to administer the process
> 3. no one remembers the names.
> 4. the names are potentially divisive.
>
> Let's do away with naming releases altogether and side step this entire
> issue.
>
> Thanks,
> -sv
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Old 03-23-2012, 03:27 PM
Brian Pepple
 
Default Connotation analysis for Fedora Project codenames

On Fri, 2012-03-23 at 10:24 -0400, seth vidal wrote:
> I think we should drop the naming process altogether.
>
> For the following reasons:
>
> 1. the names do not serve any use
> 2. the names are a waste of time and effort to administer the process
> 3. no one remembers the names.
> 4. the names are potentially divisive.
>
> Let's do away with naming releases altogether and side step this entire
> issue.

+1.

Later,
/B
--
Brian Pepple <bpepple@fedoraproject.org>

https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Bpepple
gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 810CC15E
BD5E 6F9E 8688 E668 8F5B CBDE 326A E936 810C C15E
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Old 03-23-2012, 03:48 PM
Randall Berry
 
Default Connotation analysis for Fedora Project codenames

On 03/23/2012 12:27 PM, Brian Pepple wrote:
> On Fri, 2012-03-23 at 10:24 -0400, seth vidal wrote:
>> I think we should drop the naming process altogether.
>>
>> For the following reasons:
>>
>> 1. the names do not serve any use
>> 2. the names are a waste of time and effort to administer the process
>> 3. no one remembers the names.
>> 4. the names are potentially divisive.
>>
>> Let's do away with naming releases altogether and side step this entire
>> issue.
>
> +1.
>
> Later,
> /B

+1

Dropping the release names sounds good to me.

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Old 03-23-2012, 04:14 PM
Robert 'Bob' Jensen
 
Default Connotation analysis for Fedora Project codenames

----- "Zoltan Hoppar" <hopparz@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi
>
> My personal opinion - partially agree with who says that we have to
> drop this current form of naming process. But for entirely, is
> bullshit. Why?
>
> Well,
> - People are giving names their kids right? Fedora isn't the kid of
> our community?
> - Why couldn't we choose only an name that we could build an entire
> marketing campaign, and get an advantage from curious or playful
> hacked names? Why couldn't we make associations with names, and show
> development curve - what we have done? Why couldn't we target an main
> feature, and associate an name to it?
> - Fedora is basically as we say bleeding edge, pioneering - right? Why
> couldn't say we are naming after scientists, inventors - dead or
> living one doesn't matter - and gain support from institutes....
> earlier we did dedication to our distribution, right? Let me ask - how
> many website has picked up our distro and introduced Fedora?
>
> A distribution, without a name, is without personality, or identity.
> If it has no identity, then it means we have a huge trouble.
>

Fedora™ has a potential identity, it has nothing to do with a codename, it has to do with the foundations. Some will say Fedora™ has an identity problem, maybe a codename with a wiener as a mascot shows that Fedora™ has reached an epic low with the codename of F17. You have been naming releases for more than a decade and have never built a marketing campaign around the name. I don't see the resources being available then or now.

-- Bob
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