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Old 02-21-2012, 02:34 AM
Zeeshan Ali
 
Default Use of Fedora logo in Boxes project

Hi,
As you may or may not know, we have been working on a new GNOME
application, Boxes[1] that (among other things) enables users to easily
manage virtual-machines. This also includes ability to detect
operating-systems given an installation media and presenting an
intuitive and *impressive* UI to user to easily install different
operating systems with minimum or no interaction. Boxes makes use of a
new library, libosinfo[2] that provides information about operating
systems (which it internally keeps in an XML database).

We really want (more like need) to show logos of different operating
systems to the user[3]. I sent a mail[4] to Fedora legal regarding this
and turns out that we can not use the logos like this unless we get
explicit permission from each trademark holder. Which is why I'm writing
to you folks now. Can we please get the permission to use Fedora logo in
this manner and distribute it along with Boxes or libosinfo?

--
Regards,

Zeeshan Ali

[1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/Gnome3.4
[2] https://fedorahosted.org/libosinfo/
[3] http://static.fi/~zeenix/tmp/boxes-small-iso-icons+logos.png
[4]
http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/legal/2012-February/001828.htm

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Old 02-21-2012, 08:51 AM
Peter Robinson
 
Default Use of Fedora logo in Boxes project

Hi Zeeshan,

Can you please open a Trademark request ticket in the board tracker
[1] and we'll add it to our meeting agenda.

Regards,
Peter

[1] https://fedorahosted.org/board/newticket

On Tue, Feb 21, 2012 at 3:34 AM, Zeeshan Ali <zeenix@redhat.com> wrote:
> Hi,
> *As you may or may not know, we have been working on a new GNOME
> application, Boxes[1] that (among other things) enables users to easily
> manage virtual-machines. This also includes ability to detect
> operating-systems given an installation media and presenting an
> intuitive and *impressive* UI to user to easily install different
> operating systems with minimum or no interaction. Boxes makes use of a
> new library, libosinfo[2] that provides information about operating
> systems (which it internally keeps in an XML database).
>
> We really want (more like need) to show logos of different operating
> systems to the user[3]. I sent a mail[4] to Fedora legal regarding this
> and turns out that we can not use the logos like this unless we get
> explicit permission from each trademark holder. Which is why I'm writing
> to you folks now. Can we please get the permission to use Fedora logo in
> this manner and distribute it along with Boxes or libosinfo?
>
> --
> Regards,
>
> Zeeshan Ali
>
> [1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/Gnome3.4
> [2] https://fedorahosted.org/libosinfo/
> [3] http://static.fi/~zeenix/tmp/boxes-small-iso-icons+logos.png
> [4]
> http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/legal/2012-February/001828.htm
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> advisory-board mailing list
> advisory-board@lists.fedoraproject.org
> https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/advisory-board
_______________________________________________
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Old 02-21-2012, 01:26 PM
David Nalley
 
Default Use of Fedora logo in Boxes project

On Mon, Feb 20, 2012 at 10:34 PM, Zeeshan Ali <zeenix@redhat.com> wrote:
> Hi,
> *As you may or may not know, we have been working on a new GNOME
> application, Boxes[1] that (among other things) enables users to easily
> manage virtual-machines. This also includes ability to detect
> operating-systems given an installation media and presenting an
> intuitive and *impressive* UI to user to easily install different
> operating systems with minimum or no interaction. Boxes makes use of a
> new library, libosinfo[2] that provides information about operating
> systems (which it internally keeps in an XML database).
>
> We really want (more like need) to show logos of different operating
> systems to the user[3]. I sent a mail[4] to Fedora legal regarding this
> and turns out that we can not use the logos like this unless we get
> explicit permission from each trademark holder. Which is why I'm writing
> to you folks now. Can we please get the permission to use Fedora logo in
> this manner and distribute it along with Boxes or libosinfo?
>


The trademark holder for the Fedora trademarks is RHT, and RHT has
explicitly denied your request in the thread you link to. While RHT
has entrusted the Fedora Board to grant permission to use the Fedora
trademarks, I don't think they've granted us the permission to reverse
their own decisions.

--David
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Old 02-21-2012, 03:18 PM
Tom Callaway
 
Default Use of Fedora logo in Boxes project

On 02/20/2012 10:34 PM, Zeeshan Ali wrote:
> Hi,
> As you may or may not know, we have been working on a new GNOME
> application, Boxes[1] that (among other things) enables users to easily
> manage virtual-machines. This also includes ability to detect
> operating-systems given an installation media and presenting an
> intuitive and *impressive* UI to user to easily install different
> operating systems with minimum or no interaction. Boxes makes use of a
> new library, libosinfo[2] that provides information about operating
> systems (which it internally keeps in an XML database).
>
> We really want (more like need) to show logos of different operating
> systems to the user[3]. I sent a mail[4] to Fedora legal regarding this
> and turns out that we can not use the logos like this unless we get
> explicit permission from each trademark holder. Which is why I'm writing
> to you folks now. Can we please get the permission to use Fedora logo in
> this manner and distribute it along with Boxes or libosinfo?

<Putting my Fedora Legal Hat on>

I want to be very clear here. The issue that was presented to Fedora
Legal for consideration involved whether it would be acceptable for
Boxes to use the trademarked logos in the manner described without
having explicit trademark permission from the trademark owners for that
situation. Upon review, that approach was not approved by Red Hat Legal,
because while trademark law permits the use of another's trademark in a
referential way, as Boxes proposed doing to indicate the operating
system, one may only use as much of the trademark as is necessary to
make the reference. Here, the word mark alone (e.g., "Fedora" or
"Microsoft Windows") is sufficient to describe the operating system, so
there appears to be no reason that the logo is also needed to convey any
necessary information.

Now, with that said, if (and ONLY if), each of the trademark holders
gave explicit and documented permission for their trademarks to be used
in the manner that Boxes desires, then that use would be considered
acceptable to Fedora/Red Hat.

I have consulted with Red Hat Legal on whether it would be acceptable to
grant permission for Fedora's trademarks to be used in the specific
situation that Boxes has requested (using the Fedora logo in addition to
the Fedora wordmark to indicate Fedora VM instances in the User
Interface). Their advice was that Fedora can give permission if it
wishes, via the Fedora Board. Please note that this would not be a
universal grant of trademark rights, and the logo would not be permitted
for use in ANY other situation except for the explicit case proposed by
Boxes (attached for reference), with a modification so that the
disclaimer says: "Any trademarks shown above are used merely for
identification of software products you have already obtained and are
the property of their respective owners." The copyright of the Fedora
logo itself would remain with Red Hat, and no modifications are
permissible to the Fedora logo file (although, it is freely distributable).

From a technical perspective, this also means that the icon could not
live in libosinfo, because there is no reasonable way to expect that the
icon would not be used in other contexts besides the one described above
for Boxes. It should be possible for this icon to be part of Boxes
directly, and only used within the restrictions of the previously
described scenario, so this should not be construed as a blocker, but
rather a technical note.

Red Hat Legal also pointed out that they felt it would be incredibly
unlikely that all of the other trademark holders would agree to a
similar arrangement, and to make it clear that it would not be
acceptable to use any trademarks in this manner without receiving
explicit permission, even temporarily while waiting to receive that
explicit permission.

I hope this helps clarify things somewhat.

~tom

==
Fedora Project
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Old 02-21-2012, 03:31 PM
Toshio Kuratomi
 
Default Use of Fedora logo in Boxes project

On Tue, Feb 21, 2012 at 11:18:41AM -0500, Tom Callaway wrote:
>
> Now, with that said, if (and ONLY if), each of the trademark holders
> gave explicit and documented permission for their trademarks to be used
> in the manner that Boxes desires, then that use would be considered
> acceptable to Fedora/Red Hat.
>
> I have consulted with Red Hat Legal on whether it would be acceptable to
> grant permission for Fedora's trademarks to be used in the specific
> situation that Boxes has requested (using the Fedora logo in addition to
> the Fedora wordmark to indicate Fedora VM instances in the User
> Interface). Their advice was that Fedora can give permission if it
> wishes, via the Fedora Board. Please note that this would not be a
>
[..]

> Red Hat Legal also pointed out that they felt it would be incredibly
> unlikely that all of the other trademark holders would agree to a
> similar arrangement, and to make it clear that it would not be
> acceptable to use any trademarks in this manner without receiving
> explicit permission, even temporarily while waiting to receive that
> explicit permission.
>
> I hope this helps clarify things somewhat.
>
Thanks spot, this does clarify most of the questions I had from reading the
thread. One further question -- when you talk about "all of the other
trademark holders", are you talking about other holders of the Fedora
Trademarks or holders of trademarks for the other distributions?

I've had to read this a few times but I think what your saying is:

1) To use the Fedora Logo, Boxes would need to get explicit permission from
the Board for their specific use case.

2) In order for Boxes to be packaged and shipped in Fedora, each trademark
holder for each distro logo would need to give similar explicit permission.
This would likely come up when the package goes through package review.

Is that correct?

-Toshio
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Old 02-21-2012, 03:42 PM
Tom Callaway
 
Default Use of Fedora logo in Boxes project

On 02/21/2012 11:31 AM, Toshio Kuratomi wrote:
> I've had to read this a few times but I think what your saying is:
>
> 1) To use the Fedora Logo, Boxes would need to get explicit permission from
> the Board for their specific use case.
>
> 2) In order for Boxes to be packaged and shipped in Fedora, each trademark
> holder for each distro logo would need to give similar explicit permission.
> This would likely come up when the package goes through package review.
>
> Is that correct?

That is correct.

~tom

==
Fedora Project
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Old 02-21-2012, 03:53 PM
Zeeshan Ali
 
Default Use of Fedora logo in Boxes project

On ti, 2012-02-21 at 11:42 -0500, Tom Callaway wrote:
> On 02/21/2012 11:31 AM, Toshio Kuratomi wrote:
> > I've had to read this a few times but I think what your saying is:
> >
> > 1) To use the Fedora Logo, Boxes would need to get explicit permission from
> > the Board for their specific use case.
> >
> > 2) In order for Boxes to be packaged and shipped in Fedora, each trademark
> > holder for each distro logo would need to give similar explicit permission.
> > This would likely come up when the package goes through package review.
> >
> > Is that correct?
>
> That is correct.

Thanks so much for providing a very clear answer. I will now continue
asking for permissions from vendors..

While it is correct that it is unlikely that we'll be able to get
permission for all vendors, I'm hopeful that all Free OS vendors will
cooperate on this. Actually I already got permission from Canonical
about use of Ubuntu logo.

--
Regards,

Zeeshan Ali
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Old 02-21-2012, 04:00 PM
Toshio Kuratomi
 
Default Use of Fedora logo in Boxes project

On Tue, Feb 21, 2012 at 06:53:47PM +0200, Zeeshan Ali wrote:
> On ti, 2012-02-21 at 11:42 -0500, Tom Callaway wrote:
> > On 02/21/2012 11:31 AM, Toshio Kuratomi wrote:
> > > I've had to read this a few times but I think what your saying is:
> > >
> > > 1) To use the Fedora Logo, Boxes would need to get explicit permission from
> > > the Board for their specific use case.
> > >
> > > 2) In order for Boxes to be packaged and shipped in Fedora, each trademark
> > > holder for each distro logo would need to give similar explicit permission.
> > > This would likely come up when the package goes through package review.
> > >
> > > Is that correct?
> >
> > That is correct.
>
Thanks!

> Thanks so much for providing a very clear answer. I will now continue
> asking for permissions from vendors..
>
> While it is correct that it is unlikely that we'll be able to get
> permission for all vendors, I'm hopeful that all Free OS vendors will
> cooperate on this. Actually I already got permission from Canonical
> about use of Ubuntu logo.
>
Zeenix, to open a ticket for the board:
https://fedorahosted.org/board/newticket

Log in with your Fedora username and password and that page will let you
create a new ticket.

The Board meets on Wednesdays (tomorrow) so if you get it in today, we'll be
able to look at it tomorrow.

-Toshio
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Old 02-22-2012, 07:48 PM
David Nalley
 
Default Use of Fedora logo in Boxes project

On Mon, Feb 20, 2012 at 10:34 PM, Zeeshan Ali <zeenix@redhat.com> wrote:
> Hi,
> *As you may or may not know, we have been working on a new GNOME
> application, Boxes[1] that (among other things) enables users to easily
> manage virtual-machines. This also includes ability to detect
> operating-systems given an installation media and presenting an
> intuitive and *impressive* UI to user to easily install different
> operating systems with minimum or no interaction. Boxes makes use of a
> new library, libosinfo[2] that provides information about operating
> systems (which it internally keeps in an XML database).
>
> We really want (more like need) to show logos of different operating
> systems to the user[3]. I sent a mail[4] to Fedora legal regarding this
> and turns out that we can not use the logos like this unless we get
> explicit permission from each trademark holder. Which is why I'm writing
> to you folks now. Can we please get the permission to use Fedora logo in
> this manner and distribute it along with Boxes or libosinfo?
>
> --
> Regards,
>
> Zeeshan Ali
>
> [1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/Gnome3.4
> [2] https://fedorahosted.org/libosinfo/
> [3] http://static.fi/~zeenix/tmp/boxes-small-iso-icons+logos.png
> [4]
> http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/legal/2012-February/001828.htm
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> advisory-board mailing list
> advisory-board@lists.fedoraproject.org
> https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/advisory-board


Just to follow up on list:
Permission to use the Fedora logo within Boxes has been granted by the
Fedora Board. This was approved by the board in todays meeting[0]

http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2012-02-22/fedora_board.2012-02-22-18.29.log.html

Thanks
--David
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