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Old 01-21-2012, 02:58 PM
Andrea Veri
 
Default Proposal: Add more items to the Fedora's CoC

Hi,

it's been some time now that I notice several people being insulted
or provoked while contributing to Fedora.

One of the possible reasons I see in that is the CoC [1] (Code of
Conduct) missing several important items and most of all the impossibility to
enforce its content when a contributor infringes it.

While punishing someone (i.e suspending his/her FAS account for
example) is definitely not the way to go in a polite community like
Fedora, I would love writing down together with any other community
member interested a reviewed CoC document.

That said, I would like to point out a few other things:

1. the CoC's location should definitely be a page under the
fedoraproject.org's domain (i.e fp.org/code-of-conduct), and not
just a two-line wiki page. The CoC is an important document and
deserves better publicity and openness.
2. any Fedora contributor before starting his/her contributions should
be prompt to accept the CoC like we currently do with the FPCA, I
am pretty much sure not everyone out there ever saw the page at [1].
3. as I outlined above punishing someone is not the way go, anyway I
think taking in front of the Board any of the borderline cases
should be a must. (i.e if a contributor breaks the rules several
times and gets warned, an action must be taken to avoid the
repetition of further infringements)

Feedback's welcome.

cheers,

Andrea

[1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Community_working_group/Code_of_Conduct
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Old 01-21-2012, 04:29 PM
Rahul Sundaram
 
Default Proposal: Add more items to the Fedora's CoC

On 01/21/2012 09:28 PM, Andrea Veri wrote:
> Hi,
>
> it's been some time now that I notice several people being insulted
> or provoked while contributing to Fedora.

Has this been bought up to the community working group?

http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Community_working_group#Mission

Rahul
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Old 01-21-2012, 04:37 PM
Andrea Veri
 
Default Proposal: Add more items to the Fedora's CoC

On Sat, 21 Jan 2012, Rahul Sundaram wrote:

> Has this been bought up to the community working group?
>
> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Community_working_group#Mission

Not yet and it won't, I am not here to accuse anyone but just to
propose a renewed document that will try to avoid future
misunderstandings and problems.

cheers,

Andrea
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Old 01-21-2012, 04:40 PM
Rahul Sundaram
 
Default Proposal: Add more items to the Fedora's CoC

On 01/21/2012 11:07 PM, Andrea Veri wrote:
> On Sat, 21 Jan 2012, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
>
>> Has this been bought up to the community working group?
>>
>> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Community_working_group#Mission
>
> Not yet and it won't, I am not here to accuse anyone but just to
> propose a renewed document that will try to avoid future
> misunderstandings and problems.

You are worried about the effectiveness of the CoC. If you dont bring
up the issues, it wont be effective regardless of the location IMO

Rahul
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Old 01-21-2012, 06:13 PM
Kevin Fenzi
 
Default Proposal: Add more items to the Fedora's CoC

On Sat, 21 Jan 2012 16:58:22 +0100
Andrea Veri <averi@fedoraproject.org> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> it's been some time now that I notice several people being insulted
> or provoked while contributing to Fedora.

Sadly, that seems to be the case in any large group...

> One of the possible reasons I see in that is the CoC [1] (Code of
> Conduct) missing several important items and most of all the
> impossibility to enforce its content when a contributor infringes it.

Well, there is:
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Community_working_group/CoC_Enforcement
which lists out a process to try and resolve conflicts.

> While punishing someone (i.e suspending his/her FAS account for
> example) is definitely not the way to go in a polite community like
> Fedora, I would love writing down together with any other community
> member interested a reviewed CoC document.
>
> That said, I would like to point out a few other things:
>
> 1. the CoC's location should definitely be a page under the
> fedoraproject.org's domain (i.e fp.org/code-of-conduct), and not
> just a two-line wiki page. The CoC is an important document and
> deserves better publicity and openness.

I agree. It would be nice if it was a easy to find link, well indexed
and not in the wiki burried.
Suggestion: if the Board agrees, file a ticket with websites to add it.

> 2. any Fedora contributor before starting his/her contributions
> should be prompt to accept the CoC like we currently do with the
> FPCA, I am pretty much sure not everyone out there ever saw the page
> at [1].

We could do this if the Board would like, but personally I am against
having people agree to it. Its not an agreement. I do agree that
displaying a link to it and asking the user to read it would be good.
This was suggested when it was setup, but we never got around to it. ;(

Suggestion: If the Board agrees, file a ticket with the fas project to
add a link to the document.

>3. as I outlined above punishing someone is not the way go,
> anyway I think taking in front of the Board any of the borderline
> cases should be a must. (i.e if a contributor breaks the rules
> several times and gets warned, an action must be taken to avoid the
> repetition of further infringements)

Yeah, and the above enforcement document does suggest this. If you
cannot solve the problem yourself, and you cannot get it solved in the
group/sig where it's happening, then the next step is the Board.

> Feedback's welcome.
>
> cheers,
>
> Andrea

Just my 2 cents.

kevin
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Old 01-21-2012, 06:51 PM
Richard Fontana
 
Default Proposal: Add more items to the Fedora's CoC

On Sat, Jan 21, 2012 at 12:13:02PM -0700, Kevin Fenzi wrote:
> > 2. any Fedora contributor before starting his/her contributions
> > should be prompt to accept the CoC like we currently do with the
> > FPCA, I am pretty much sure not everyone out there ever saw the page
> > at [1].
>
> We could do this if the Board would like, but personally I am against
> having people agree to it.

+1 fwiw.

- RF

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Old 01-22-2012, 05:37 PM
Andrea Veri
 
Default Proposal: Add more items to the Fedora's CoC

On Sat, 21 Jan 2012, Kevin Fenzi wrote:

> I agree. It would be nice if it was a easy to find link, well indexed
> and not in the wiki burried.
> Suggestion: if the Board agrees, file a ticket with websites to add it.

Great, I think this could be dealed at the next Board's meeting if
they're fine with it.

> > 2. any Fedora contributor before starting his/her contributions
> > should be prompt to accept the CoC like we currently do with the
> > FPCA, I am pretty much sure not everyone out there ever saw the page
> > at [1].
>
> We could do this if the Board would like, but personally I am against
> having people agree to it. Its not an agreement. I do agree that
> displaying a link to it and asking the user to read it would be good.
> This was suggested when it was setup, but we never got around to it. ;(
>
> Suggestion: If the Board agrees, file a ticket with the fas project to
> add a link to the document.

Same as above.

> >3. as I outlined above punishing someone is not the way go,
> > anyway I think taking in front of the Board any of the borderline
> > cases should be a must. (i.e if a contributor breaks the rules
> > several times and gets warned, an action must be taken to avoid the
> > repetition of further infringements)
>
> Yeah, and the above enforcement document does suggest this. If you
> cannot solve the problem yourself, and you cannot get it solved in the
> group/sig where it's happening, then the next step is the Board.

Thanks for the useful link Kevin.

cheers,

Andrea
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Old 01-22-2012, 06:25 PM
David Nalley
 
Default Proposal: Add more items to the Fedora's CoC

On Sat, Jan 21, 2012 at 2:13 PM, Kevin Fenzi <kevin@scrye.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 21 Jan 2012 16:58:22 +0100
> Andrea Veri <averi@fedoraproject.org> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> it's been some time now that I notice several people being insulted
>> or provoked while contributing to Fedora.
>
> Sadly, that seems to be the case in any large group...
>
>> One of the possible reasons I see in that is the CoC [1] (Code of
>> Conduct) missing several important items and most of all the
>> impossibility to enforce its content when a contributor infringes it.
>
> Well, there is:
> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Community_working_group/CoC_Enforcement
> which lists out a process to try and resolve conflicts.
>
>> While punishing someone (i.e suspending his/her FAS account for
>> example) is definitely not the way to go in a polite community like
>> Fedora, I would love writing down together with any other community
>> member interested a reviewed CoC document.
>>
>> That said, I would like to point out a few other things:
>>
>> 1. the CoC's location should definitely be a page under the
>> * *fedoraproject.org's domain (i.e fp.org/code-of-conduct), and not
>> * *just a two-line wiki page. The CoC is an important document and
>> * *deserves better publicity and openness.
>
> I agree. It would be nice if it was a easy to find link, well indexed
> and not in the wiki burried.
> Suggestion: if the Board agrees, file a ticket with websites to add it.

If this strikes someone as useful just file the ticket with websites -
no need to involve the board (or anyone else aside from the folks who
care about the issue and those who do the work) in decisions about
where to host content that was already blessed by the CWG, the Board,
and subject to public comment for some time.

--David
speaking only for myself.
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Old 01-22-2012, 07:01 PM
 
Default Proposal: Add more items to the Fedora's CoC

David Nalley <david@gnsa.us> ha scritto:


On Sat, Jan 21, 2012 at 2:13 PM, Kevin Fenzi <kevin@scrye.com> wrote:

On Sat, 21 Jan 2012 16:58:22 +0100
Andrea Veri <averi@fedoraproject.org> wrote:


Hi,

it's been some time now that I notice several people being insulted
or provoked while contributing to Fedora.


Sadly, that seems to be the case in any large group...


I agree with Kevin, but this aspect could be improved, couldn't it?


One of the possible reasons I see in that is the CoC [1] (Code of
Conduct) missing several important items and most of all the
impossibility to enforce its content when a contributor infringes it.


Well, there is:
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Community_working_group/CoC_Enforcement
which lists out a process to try and resolve conflicts.


A better visibility of the CoC is necessary as just said: sure it's
done with this?



While punishing someone (i.e suspending his/her FAS account for
example) is definitely not the way to go in a polite community like
Fedora, I would love writing down together with any other community
member interested a reviewed CoC document.

That said, I would like to point out a few other things:

1. the CoC's location should definitely be a page under the
* *fedoraproject.org's domain (i.e fp.org/code-of-conduct), and not
* *just a two-line wiki page. The CoC is an important document and
* *deserves better publicity and openness.


I agree. It would be nice if it was a easy to find link, well indexed
and not in the wiki burried.
Suggestion: if the Board agrees, file a ticket with websites to add it.


I agree. A link in the fedoraproject.org domain would be nice. I'd
appreciate also a remind to the CoC when opening a FAS account. Not by
agreeing to it like an agreement, just for information. Why not insert
the link to the CoC in a welcome mail?



If this strikes someone as useful just file the ticket with websites -
no need to involve the board (or anyone else aside from the folks who
care about the issue and those who do the work) in decisions about
where to host content that was already blessed by the CWG, the Board,
and subject to public comment for some time.

--David
speaking only for myself.


I think it doesn't help only putting a more visible link. The link
should assure the board, that all the contributors read the CoC. Only
if this is guaranteed the board is able to resolve definitely a
conflict if asked. Obviously, the best solution is to resolve
conflicts directly in the single local groups.
The CoC should in any case indicate the process for resolving the
conflicts mentioned by Andrea in his first post.


This are my personal opinions.
Robert



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