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-   -   Partnership with DuckDuckGo? (http://www.linux-archive.org/fedora-advisory-board/619188-partnership-duckduckgo.html)

Máirín Duffy 01-09-2012 10:31 PM

Partnership with DuckDuckGo?
 
Hi,

DuckDuckGo is an alternative to Google and Bing that, while not really
open source, uses open source components, donates 10% of their profits
to open source projects, and is of course built on free software:

http://help.duckduckgo.com/customer/portal/articles/216390-open-source

So how does that make them different from say Google? Well, they are
extremely committed to user privacy and don't track users or otherwise
collect or retain personal information about them:

https://duckduckgo.com/privacy.html

I recently came across an article that mentioned LinuxMint now ships
with DuckDuckGo configured:

http://blog.linuxmint.com/?p=1884

I don't know if shipping with DuckDuckGo configured in our browsers by
default is a good idea or not, but it would be nice if we could ship
with it as an option. At least for Firefox, there's already a search
engine plugin written for it. Certainly their stances on user privacy
seem more in-line with our own.

We've also fielded some criticism I think for using Google as the
start.fedoraproject.org search engine. DuckDuckGo might be a friendlier
alternative for start.fpo.

Does this make sense? Would it be appropriate to file a ticket with
FESCO on including them by default and with the websites team to
consider using DDG for start.fpo? Or is it not enough benefit?

I was interested in hearing folks weigh in here.

Thanks,
~m


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Toshio Kuratomi 01-09-2012 11:28 PM

Partnership with DuckDuckGo?
 
On Mon, Jan 09, 2012 at 06:31:38PM -0500, Máirín Duffy wrote:
> I don't know if shipping with DuckDuckGo configured in our browsers by
> default is a good idea or not, but it would be nice if we could ship
> with it as an option. At least for Firefox, there's already a search
> engine plugin written for it. Certainly their stances on user privacy
> seem more in-line with our own.
>
I like the idea of it being an option.

> We've also fielded some criticism I think for using Google as the
> start.fedoraproject.org search engine. DuckDuckGo might be a friendlier
> alternative for start.fpo.
>
Not sure that the main criticism here would be fixed (which afair is that
google search isn't open source) so I'd leave it up to the websites team to
make that decision for themselves.

-Toshio
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Christoph Wickert 01-09-2012 11:28 PM

Partnership with DuckDuckGo?
 
Am Montag, den 09.01.2012, 18:31 -0500 schrieb Máirín Duffy:

> I don't know if shipping with DuckDuckGo configured in our browsers by
> default is a good idea or not, but it would be nice if we could ship
> with it as an option.

Hi Mizmo,

it's already the default search engine in Midori, not only for the
reasons you mentioned in your mail but also because it really gives good
search results.

> At least for Firefox, there's already a search
> engine plugin written for it.

Should work with other browsers, too as they support Sherlock &
OpenSearch nowadays.

> Certainly their stances on user privacy seem more in-line with our own.

+1

> We've also fielded some criticism I think for using Google as the
> start.fedoraproject.org search engine. DuckDuckGo might be a friendlier
> alternative for start.fpo.

+1

Kind regards,
Christoph


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Zoltan Hoppar 01-10-2012 07:45 AM

Partnership with DuckDuckGo?
 
Hi Mizmo,

I think it's can be really nice option, and would be useful us too. I
think, using also inside firefox as addition we could help on privacy,
and with the "joker" (eg. !bang, and the other !**** options) searches
improves the opening site functionality.

+1

Zoltan

2012/1/10 Christoph Wickert <christoph.wickert@googlemail.com>:
> Am Montag, den 09.01.2012, 18:31 -0500 schrieb Máirín Duffy:
>
>> I don't know if shipping with DuckDuckGo configured in our browsers by
>> default is a good idea or not, but it would be nice if we could ship
>> with it as an option.
>
> Hi Mizmo,
>
> it's already the default search engine in Midori, not only for the
> reasons you mentioned in your mail but also because it really gives good
> search results.
>
>> At least for Firefox, there's already a search
>> engine plugin written for it.
>
> Should work with other browsers, too as they support Sherlock &
> OpenSearch nowadays.
>
>> Certainly their stances on user privacy seem more in-line with our own.
>
> +1
>
>> We've also fielded some criticism I think for using Google as the
>> start.fedoraproject.org search engine. DuckDuckGo might be a friendlier
>> alternative for start.fpo.
>
> +1
>
> Kind regards,
> Christoph
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> advisory-board mailing list
> advisory-board@lists.fedoraproject.org
> https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/advisory-board



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Jaroslav Reznik 01-10-2012 08:36 AM

Partnership with DuckDuckGo?
 
----- Original Message -----
> Hi,
>
> DuckDuckGo is an alternative to Google and Bing that, while not
> really
> open source, uses open source components, donates 10% of their
> profits
> to open source projects, and is of course built on free software:
>
> http://help.duckduckgo.com/customer/portal/articles/216390-open-source

Sounds really interesting! I like it and I have to check it ;-) Actually
I was looking for some more open minded people search engine.

> So how does that make them different from say Google? Well, they are
> extremely committed to user privacy and don't track users or
> otherwise
> collect or retain personal information about them:
>
> https://duckduckgo.com/privacy.html
>
> I recently came across an article that mentioned LinuxMint now ships
> with DuckDuckGo configured:
>
> http://blog.linuxmint.com/?p=1884
>
> I don't know if shipping with DuckDuckGo configured in our browsers
> by
> default is a good idea or not, but it would be nice if we could ship
> with it as an option. At least for Firefox, there's already a search
> engine plugin written for it. Certainly their stances on user privacy
> seem more in-line with our own.

I like the idea. I'll take a look what I can do for Arora, Konqueror
and Rekonq and let you guys know. Don't want to enforce it as a strict
rule on other browsers maintainers but would be great to have consistent
search results.

One thing I'm worried about - how's non-english search results quality?
In Czech Republic we're very specific market - there's one of a very
few local search site that can compete with Google. And it provided
very good results for Czech language (they specialize on it). Google
just sucked. But they entered Czech market and implemented support for
our language. Now I don't see reason to use seznam.cz for Czech pages,
and Google for English. Just a lot of people are still used to use it.

Would be great to collect some info about it before we switch. As it
could hit quite a lot of people. Or another possibility - set the
default search engine based on locales if there's known better local
search engine? But it again needs some date and some people would not
be ok with this change :(

> We've also fielded some criticism I think for using Google as the
> start.fedoraproject.org search engine. DuckDuckGo might be a
> friendlier
> alternative for start.fpo.
>
> Does this make sense? Would it be appropriate to file a ticket with
> FESCO on including them by default and with the websites team to
> consider using DDG for start.fpo? Or is it not enough benefit?

Do we have any agreement with Google on using it as start page? Something
like Mozilla has? Would it be possible with DDG?

> I was interested in hearing folks weigh in here.

I like the idea, if DDG can provide good non-english results, I'm +1.
Thanks for head up.

Jaroslav

> Thanks,
> ~m
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> advisory-board mailing list
> advisory-board@lists.fedoraproject.org
> https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/advisory-board
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Frank Murphy 01-10-2012 11:32 AM

Partnership with DuckDuckGo?
 
On 09/01/12 23:31, Máirín Duffy wrote:


Does this make sense? Would it be appropriate to file a ticket with
FESCO on including them by default and with the websites team to
consider using DDG for start.fpo? Or is it not enough benefit?

I was interested in hearing folks weigh in here.

Thanks,


Maybe ask the test-list to try them out,
for some broader feedback?

--
Regards,

Frank Murphy
UTF_8 Encoded
Friend of fedoraproject.org
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Bill Nottingham 01-10-2012 04:32 PM

Partnership with DuckDuckGo?
 
Toshio Kuratomi (a.badger@gmail.com) said:
> > We've also fielded some criticism I think for using Google as the
> > start.fedoraproject.org search engine. DuckDuckGo might be a friendlier
> > alternative for start.fpo.
> >
> Not sure that the main criticism here would be fixed (which afair is that
> google search isn't open source) so I'd leave it up to the websites team to
> make that decision for themselves.

Even if DDG releases all their source, DDG isn't really a full end-to-end
open source search engine - it's essentially a frontend to aggregated search
results from elsewhere. So, I don't think you could really replace it on
that count.

Bill
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"Neville A. Cross" 01-11-2012 04:24 AM

Partnership with DuckDuckGo?
 
On Tue, 2012-01-10 at 01:28 +0100, Christoph Wickert wrote:

> > We've also fielded some criticism I think for using Google as the
> > start.fedoraproject.org search engine. DuckDuckGo might be a friendlier
> > alternative for start.fpo.
>
> +1

I think DGG provides more useful results, at least for technical
searches. I got less junk results. I like the idea of bursting the
bubble, right now my google bubble has a lot of bad results and it is
just giving me more of the same.

I have to admit that I haven't use DDG to search on my own language.

Thinking on this topic, the search bar on start.fedoraproject.org does
not say in which search engine will do the querry. I think that it will
requiere some hint, but I am not sure that I will like to see branding.
Dificult!

I like very much the filter that is offered now about licence, but to
tell the true I have never used it.


--
Neville
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Yn1v
Linux User # 473217

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Guillermo Gómez 01-12-2012 10:06 AM

Partnership with DuckDuckGo?
 
2012/1/9 Máirín Duffy <duffy@fedoraproject.org>:
> Hi,

Hi mizmo

> DuckDuckGo is an alternative to Google and Bing that, while not really
> open source, uses open source components, donates 10% of their profits
> to open source projects, and is of course built on free software:
>
> http://help.duckduckgo.com/customer/portal/articles/216390-open-source
>

I dont have a strong opinion on any of the two (goo vs ddg) and in
general switching to ddg could be an improvement that should be done
with some general precaution, but, since you brought this topic, what
poped up from my mind was why not really use and promote something
else different and really free and pushing the envelope on the web
search arena.

Why not question ourselves what is our Fedora users in their web
searches looking for from start.fpo? To the point, is it too difficult
to use YaCy [1] and Fedora peers to make start.fpo works? Everybody
knows how to reach goo or ddg, etc, or use browser plugins, but none
of them (afaik) align with our standings in FOSS better that YaCy (up
to my knowledge, maybe there are other options too)

Fedora peers/users could run their own crawlers and make this an
interesting altetnative to use regular web search engines, and
perhaps, more relevant results to our use base.

I have to confess im not an expert on web search crawlers and so for
search engines technologies, but was nicely surprised by YaCy and i am
using daily for my searches in different ways and planning to run a
permanent instance.

Perhaps one simple plan for the future (F18?), is to have a localhost
instance of YaCy and then use that as the default search engine for
any browser we supply. Perhaps we can create our
net-wise-search-engine (fedora specific web searches).

Im a too crazy?

[1] http://yacy.net/en/

--
Ing.Guillermo Gomez S.
Fedora Board Member A4
http://gomix.fedora-ve.org
http://www.neotechgw.com
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Adam Williamson 01-15-2012 02:08 PM

Partnership with DuckDuckGo?
 
On Tue, 2012-01-10 at 12:32 +0000, Frank Murphy wrote:
> On 09/01/12 23:31, Máirín Duffy wrote:
>
> > Does this make sense? Would it be appropriate to file a ticket with
> > FESCO on including them by default and with the websites team to
> > consider using DDG for start.fpo? Or is it not enough benefit?
> >
> > I was interested in hearing folks weigh in here.
> >
> > Thanks,
>
> Maybe ask the test-list to try them out,
> for some broader feedback?

I've had it set as my default search engine for a while, but I do find
myself switching to Google quite often; Google gives better results for
many queries, I've found. Often I search a specific error message, say,
and get useful results from Google, nothing useful from DDG.
--
Adam Williamson
Fedora QA Community Monkey
IRC: adamw | Twitter: AdamW_Fedora | identi.ca: adamwfedora
http://www.happyassassin.net

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