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Old 03-28-2008, 10:28 AM
Thorsten Leemhuis
 
Default Coordinate different education spins/efforts?

Hi all!

Disclaimer (1): I'm not really interested in any education
spins/efforts; in fact I got tracked into this accidentally and now need
to make the best out of it...



The short version of this mail:

Fedora afaics has multiple efforts in the education area. People
afaics wanted to work together, but it for some reasons didn't work out
(nobody afaics is a bad guy/group here and responsible for it; it afaics
just happened that way without purpose, thus there is no need to
blame/flame anyone). Thus I'm wondering if the Board, FESCo or the
members on this list could mediate between the different groups and
encourage them to work together instead of doing a lot of work twice.



The longer version:

We afaics we have two different efforts in the education area:

* There is Warren, who afaics works a lot on the K12Linux stuff in the
past few months; Quoting http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/K12Linux :
"K12Linux is Fedora's spin for educational technology." Mailing list:

https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12linux-devel-list (freshly
created a few weeks ago afaics)

* There is the Fedora Education SIG; Quoting
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/Education : "The project aims to
optimize Fedora for use at universities and schools as well as for
education usage by schoolers or students. [...]" The SIG has at least
five members (according to the wiki) which was formed by Sebastian
Dziallas ( http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SebastianDziallas ), who
created a rough Education Spin (

http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SebastianDziallas/Education ) which he
wants to get approved. Mailing list:
https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-education-list (old list
that was re-used by the SIG)

---
Disclaimer (2): I know Sebastian privately; he made a two or three weeks
internship in the company I work for (unpaid internship; he had to do it
for school). He used Fedora before, but afaics I made him interested in
participating in Fedora (/me is a bad guy...). I let him find his way
into the project mostly on it's own, but helped him a bit/mentored when
he got into a dead end (which happened more than once and showed me yet
again that it's IMHO way to hard to become a Fedora contributer; but
that's a different topic)


Sebastian (who is traveling right now) recently seemed a bit frustrated
how things evolved and that made me write this mail.

So back to the topic:
---

Both K12Linux and the Edu-Sig have slightly different target
audiences/goals afaics, but they are not that different and I suppose
most users will not understand the difference between "K12Linux is
Fedora's spin for educational technology." and "The project aims to
optimize Fedora for use at universities and schools as well as for
education usage by schoolers or students.". Thus I'm wondering if it
really makes sense to let those two groups work in parallel, as that
afaics leads to quite a bit of duplicated work and likely confusion
among the users. That why I think someone needs to mediate and that's
why I write this mail to FAB.

Afaics (which really is necessary here, as I'm neither involved in
either of the two groups) the best for Fedora would be something like this:

* a CD spin with a Desktop Environment, the most common/important Edu
apps and the different clients to connect to Servers used in education
areas (K12Linux, RDP/Windows, VNC, X-Client, ...)

* a DVD spin with a Desktop Environment, even more Edu apps, the
different clients to connect to Servers (K12Linux, RDP/Windows, VNC,
X-Client, ...) as well as a possibility to setup a K12Linux-Server with
a few easy steps

Warren, Sebastian, others that are interested in the EDU-sig (Rex,
Axel?) or K12Linux: does that sound like a plan? Or is there a better
way for Edu-Spins in Fedora (I suppose there is, thus the above proposal
is more meant as a starting point for further discussion). Or does it
really make sense to let the EDU-Sig and K12Linux work on different
things for the education area?

CU
knurd

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Old 03-28-2008, 11:25 AM
Axel Thimm
 
Default Coordinate different education spins/efforts?

> Both K12Linux and the Edu-Sig have slightly different target
> audiences/goals afaics, but they are not that different and I suppose
> most users will not understand the difference between "K12Linux is
> Fedora's spin for educational technology." and "The project aims to
> optimize Fedora for use at universities and schools as well as for
> education usage by schoolers or students.".

The way I understand it is that K12Linux is a decendent from K12LTSP
which was about integrating LTSP into Fedora. The current tag for
K12Linux is "Using Linux For Your School Server". Furthermore the
project describes itself more like an upstream project: "K12 Linux is
really about education, not so much about a particular distro or
package".

OTOH the education sig is definitely Fedora specific and looks beyond
server/client connectivity topics. I'm not sure that merging them
would really benefit the two groups (that certainly do partly overlap).

At least that's my (short) experience with the two projects. Note that
the EDU sig is quite fresh and thus doesn't quite have a record of
activities to back this up.
--
Axel.Thimm at ATrpms.net
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Old 03-28-2008, 08:18 PM
"Karsten 'quaid' Wade"
 
Default Coordinate different education spins/efforts?

On Fri, 2008-03-28 at 14:25 +0200, Axel Thimm wrote:
> > Both K12Linux and the Edu-Sig have slightly different target
> > audiences/goals afaics, but they are not that different and I suppose
> > most users will not understand the difference between "K12Linux is
> > Fedora's spin for educational technology." and "The project aims to
> > optimize Fedora for use at universities and schools as well as for
> > education usage by schoolers or students.".
>
> The way I understand it is that K12Linux is a decendent from K12LTSP
> which was about integrating LTSP into Fedora. The current tag for
> K12Linux is "Using Linux For Your School Server". Furthermore the
> project describes itself more like an upstream project: "K12 Linux is
> really about education, not so much about a particular distro or
> package".
>
> OTOH the education sig is definitely Fedora specific and looks beyond
> server/client connectivity topics. I'm not sure that merging them
> would really benefit the two groups (that certainly do partly overlap).

This makes some sense. I'll take a stab at rolling a middle ground out
of this ...

What if the groups agreed to actively work on being connected to each
other? As well as cleaning up the project pages so they interlock and
don't appear to contradict.

How to be connected?

* Make f-education-l the place for discussing the meta-topic of Fedora
in education. On-topic includes: various spins, OLPC branches,
evangelizing K12LTSP + Fedora, etc.

* Have the K12LTSP list focus on the technical details of making Fedora
a first rate/first class distro for running K12LTSP on top of. Anything
about general Fedora and education is off-topic and should go to the
f-edu-l list.

Then everyone on the K12LTSP list should subscribe to the f-edu-list,
but the reverse is not needed. Work is done on that list to work out
interlocked project, feature, and spin pages.

Why this method benefits both parties:

* Gives Ambassadors one, connected story to tell, which
* Makes better connections at events where K12LTSP is present, and
* We can start to look for other, greater connections (Fedora CC
Education Spin, Fedora Blender Spin for Students, etc.)
* Provides technical and social bits for different kinds of contributors
to chew on

- Karsten
--
Karsten Wade, Sr. Developer Community Mgr.
Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com
Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org
gpg key : AD0E0C41
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Old 03-30-2008, 05:20 PM
 
Default Coordinate different education spins/efforts?

The way I understand it is that K12Linux is a decendent from K12LTSP
which was about integrating LTSP into Fedora. The current tag for
K12Linux is "Using Linux For Your School Server". Furthermore the
project describes itself more like an upstream project: "K12 Linux is
really about education, not so much about a particular distro or
package".


AFAIK, Warren is currently working on bringing the LTSP into Fedora.
He owns a feature for Fedora 9 (
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/K12Linux ),
stating "Integration of LTSP5 to enable easy terminal server and thin
client capability.".
So it seems like they are getting more Fedora-orientated (former
releases have also been Fedora-based).
The K12LTSP project has been around for some time, while the SIG has
been quite new.



OTOH the education sig is definitely Fedora specific and looks beyond
server/client connectivity topics. I'm not sure that merging them
would really benefit the two groups (that certainly do partly

overlap).

The Education SIG belongs directly to Fedora. But is a further
cooperation between these two projects useful or not.
It does not really makes sense, to produce a Fedora Education Spin (
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SebastianDziallas/Education )
and then have another K12 Desktop spin (
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/K12Linux ), since this would only confuse
the users:
We would have two different spins (and maybe a third one) with only a
slightly different target.
As a user, how could I know, which spin to chose? And in the end, these
spins might almost look alike (but we would have done the work twice).
Therefore, I think we should coordinate the whole thing a little bit
more.
So, "who is doing what?", and "which mailing list and which project
belong to which task?".
I think a further discussion would help here - it would not even be
necessary to merge the two projects,

but IMHO a clarification of the tasks would be very useful.
But then, both projects would need to agree to collaborate - trying to
stay the course without any talks would _not_ work then.

Maybe Warren (and others) could comment on this.

At least that's my (short) experience with the two projects. Note

that

the EDU sig is quite fresh and thus doesn't quite have a record of
activities to back this up.


This might be correct, but I think it would be good to work out a rough
plan how to work together,
since otherwise it is very likely, that we would be doing the same work
twice.


Sebastian
__________________________________________________ ______________________
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are at http://domains.aol.com


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Old 04-01-2008, 12:33 AM
 
Default Coordinate different education spins/efforts?

Hi all,

sorry for the late response, but I am still not back home...

Well, what Karsten says sounds for me pretty good:
I agree, that it might not be necessary to merge the two projects,
but at least, we should talk about a deeper collaboration.

If I got you correctly, the f-edu-l would be the first place for
education questions in general and questions concerning Fedora and
education.
The k12-list would be more for technical questions and topics
concerning the integration of K12LTSP into Fedora.


AFAICS, cleaning the project pages up would be a good idea, too. What
is old? what should be renewed? Where do we link to which project?
But this incorporates, that we _talk_ about how to do this and how to
create contents, which do not interfere with each other.


So I think, that working actively together and being connected would be
a requirement for successful cooperation.
On the other hand, I did not get much feedback from Warren, what he
thinks about such a plan.


If we would work out the different tasks for each project (further
education spins, OLPC, K12LTSP, and so on) based on Karstens proposal
here,

does this sound like an acceptable solution for everybody? Warren?

Sebastian

-----Original Message-----
From: Karsten 'quaid' Wade <kwade@redhat.com>
To: fedora-advisory-board@redhat.com
Sent: Fri, 28 Mar 2008 5:18 pm
Subject: Re: Coordinate different education spins/efforts?

On Fri, 2008-03-28 at 14:25 +0200, Axel Thimm wrote:

> Both K12Linux and the Edu-Sig have slightly different target
> audiences/goals afaics, but they are not that different and I

suppose

> most users will not understand the difference between "K12Linux is
> Fedora's spin for educational technology." and "The project aims to
> optimize Fedora for use at universities and schools as well as for
> education usage by schoolers or students.".

The way I understand it is that K12Linux is a decendent from K12LTSP
which was about integrating LTSP into Fedora. The current tag for
K12Linux is "Using Linux For Your School Server". Furthermore the
project describes itself more like an upstream project: "K12 Linux is
really about education, not so much about a particular distro or
package".

OTOH the education sig is definitely Fedora specific and looks beyond
server/client connectivity topics. I'm not sure that merging them
would really benefit the two groups (that certainly do partly

overlap).

This makes some sense. I'll take a stab at rolling a middle ground out
of this ...

What if the groups agreed to actively work on being connected to each
other? As well as cleaning up the project pages so they interlock and
don't appear to contradict.

How to be connected?

* Make f-education-l the place for discussing the meta-topic of Fedora
in education. On-topic includes: various spins, OLPC branches,
evangelizing K12LTSP + Fedora, etc.

* Have the K12LTSP list focus on the technical details of making Fedora
a first rate/first class distro for running K12LTSP on top of. Anything
about general Fedora and education is off-topic and should go to the
f-edu-l list.

Then everyone on the K12LTSP list should subscribe to the f-edu-list,
but the reverse is not needed. Work is done on that list to work out
interlocked project, feature, and spin pages.

Why this method benefits both parties:

* Gives Ambassadors one, connected story to tell, which
* Makes better connections at events where K12LTSP is present, and
* We can start to look for other, greater connections (Fedora CC
Education Spin, Fedora Blender Spin for Students, etc.)
* Provides technical and social bits for different kinds of contributors
to chew on

- Karsten
__________________________________________________ ______________________
Stand above the crowd! Get a free email address that expresses who you
are at http://domains.aol.com


_______________________________________________
fedora-advisory-board mailing list
fedora-advisory-board@redhat.com
http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-advisory-board
 

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