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Old 11-10-2011, 05:31 AM
Rahul Sundaram
 
Default Recommend 64-bit download by default

Hi

The default download in Fedora Project website is still 32-bit and I
think it is time we moved the recommended download to be 64-bit. Of
course we will still offer 32-bit but it shouldn't be the primary
download anymore. Even Adobe Flash which was one of the last major
holdouts have released a supported 64-bit version for Linux. Any reason
not to do this?

Rahul
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Old 11-10-2011, 08:20 AM
Christoph Wickert
 
Default Recommend 64-bit download by default

Am Donnerstag, den 10.11.2011, 12:01 +0530 schrieb Rahul Sundaram:
> Hi
>
> The default download in Fedora Project website is still 32-bit and I
> think it is time we moved the recommended download to be 64-bit.

This is a technical decision. I suggest you file a ticket in FESCo's
trac.

Regards,
Christoph

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Old 11-11-2011, 04:25 PM
Rahul Sundaram
 
Default Recommend 64-bit download by default

On 11/10/2011 02:50 PM, Christoph Wickert wrote:
> Am Donnerstag, den 10.11.2011, 12:01 +0530 schrieb Rahul Sundaram:
>> Hi
>>
>> The default download in Fedora Project website is still 32-bit and I
>> think it is time we moved the recommended download to be 64-bit.
>
> This is a technical decision. I suggest you file a ticket in FESCo's
> trac.

Is it purely a technical decision? I don't believe it is. I think it
is a project wide decision and not purely within the purview of FESCo
and the last time IIRC FESCo punted it to the board. However, here you go

https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/695

Hopefully we don't end up playing ping pong again.

Rahul
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Old 11-11-2011, 06:01 PM
Stephen John Smoogen
 
Default Recommend 64-bit download by default

On 11 November 2011 10:25, Rahul Sundaram <metherid@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 11/10/2011 02:50 PM, Christoph Wickert wrote:
>> Am Donnerstag, den 10.11.2011, 12:01 +0530 schrieb Rahul Sundaram:
>>> Hi
>>>
>>> The default download in Fedora Project website is still 32-bit and I
>>> think it is time we moved the recommended download to be 64-bit.
>>
>> This is a technical decision. I suggest you file a ticket in FESCo's
>> trac.
>
> Is it purely a technical decision? *I don't believe it is. *I think it

Nothing is a purely technical decision when you have more than 2
people working one something. At some point though you say its
technical enough. The "recommended spin" is the architecture that
"Engineering" represented by FESCO is relatively focused on.

If it comes to ping-pong, we can cut it short by outlining a good way
of doing so:
FESCO -> we don't believe we have purview here.
BOARD -> we need a recommendation
FESCO -> we believe we focus on X
BOARD -> we say make X so.

Or its going to be:
BOARD -> we need a recommendation from FESCO
FESCO -> we believer we focus on X
BOARD -> we say make X so.

Or we can short cut it down to

FESCO -> we believe we focus on X
BOARD -> we say make X so.

which is really

FESCO -> we believe we focus on X.


--
Stephen J Smoogen.
"The core skill of innovators is error recovery, not failure avoidance."
Randy Nelson, President of Pixar University.
"Let us be kind, one to another, for most of us are fighting a hard
battle." -- Ian MacLaren
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Old 11-12-2011, 03:09 PM
Frank Murphy
 
Default Recommend 64-bit download by default

On 10/11/11 06:31, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
> Hi
>
> The default download in Fedora Project website is still 32-bit and I
> think it is time we moved the recommended download to be 64-bit.

Is there any statsdemographics to show which is the more wanted
(for want of a better word)

Currently in my Azureus I see:
16:00 gmt
x86_64 seeds 733 peers 157
i386 "" 480 "" 140


--
Regards,

Frank Murphy
UTF_8 Encoded
Friend of fedoraproject.org
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Old 11-12-2011, 07:04 PM
Jon Stanley
 
Default Recommend 64-bit download by default

On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 11:09 AM, Frank Murphy <frankly3d@gmail.com> wrote:

> Is there any statsdemographics to show which is the more wanted
> (for want of a better word)

We've got http://torrent.fedoraproject.org:6969/ and
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Statistics (but the latter doesn't break
things down by arch sadly).

<UX hat on>
I think that from a UX perspective, having a least-common-denominator
as a download default makes sense. Think of the person that downloads
Fedora for a older netbook that doesn't have a 64-bit processor (but
they might not know this). They think "geez, this Fedora thing sucks!"
With 32-bit as the default, that use case works. If you really know
that you want 64-bit, then you can go get it with two clicks instead
of one (as the site exists today)
</UX>

<rant>
This comes up *every single release* it seems like. I think that the
web team did an exceptional job of redesigning the website, let's not
go belittle their work. It's perfectly easy to use and easy to find
what you're looking for, IMO.
</rant>
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Old 11-12-2011, 07:07 PM
"Neville A. Cross"
 
Default Recommend 64-bit download by default

On Sat, 2011-11-12 at 16:09 +0000, Frank Murphy wrote:
> On 10/11/11 06:31, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
> > Hi
> >
> > The default download in Fedora Project website is still 32-bit and I
> > think it is time we moved the recommended download to be 64-bit.
>
> Is there any statsdemographics to show which is the more wanted
> (for want of a better word)
>
> Currently in my Azureus I see:
> 16:00 gmt
> x86_64 seeds 733 peers 157
> i386 "" 480 "" 140
>
>

From freemedia stand point I have done a quick check.
Fixed tickets with keyword Fedora 15 for Live i686, KDE i686 and DVD
i386 add up to 101 requests.
Fixed tickets with keyword Fedora 15 for Live x86_64, KDE x86_64 and DVD
x86_64 add up to 30 requests.
22.9% were 64bits


Fixed tickets with keyword Fedora 14 for Live i686, KDE i686 and DVD
i386 add up to 357 requests.
Fixed tickets with keyword Fedora 14 for Live x86_64, KDE x86_64 and DVD
x86_64 add up to 155 requests.
30.27% were 64 bits

For Fedora 14 there were more request for 64bits than we had for Fedora
15. One explanation can be that Freemedia is dealing in part with people
that has problems with internet access and probably they are running on
old hardware. As internet is penetrating more, those who still can not
download are people with fewer resources. But all that is guess work as
we don't have profiles for people requesting freemedia .

This shows also that we (as freemedia team) have send less media for the
F15 time, but that is beside the point.

In any case, there is the data for what is worth in this debate. I don't
think that if the board said that default will be 64bits it will change
much the day to day work of freemedia.

Best regards


--
Neville A. Cross
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Yn1v
Linux User #: 473217

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Old 11-12-2011, 07:12 PM
Rahul Sundaram
 
Default Recommend 64-bit download by default

On 11/13/2011 01:34 AM, Jon Stanley wrote:

> <rant>
> This comes up *every single release* it seems like. I think that the
> web team did an exceptional job of redesigning the website, let's not
> go belittle their work. It's perfectly easy to use and easy to find
> what you're looking for, IMO.
> </rant>

This should be marked <silly hat on> really. Website team indeed did a
exceptional job. No doubt about that but default download does matter
and it is why it is being bought up frequently. Its perfectly easy to
understand that. Do not belittle that request.

Rahul
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Old 11-12-2011, 09:20 PM
Frank Murphy
 
Default Recommend 64-bit download by default

On 12/11/11 20:04, Jon Stanley wrote:
> On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 11:09 AM, Frank Murphy<frankly3d@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Is there any statsdemographics to show which is the more wanted
>> (for want of a better word)
>
> We've got http://torrent.fedoraproject.org:6969/ and
> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Statistics (but the latter doesn't break
> things down by arch sadly).

Agreed,

> <UX hat on>
> I think that from a UX perspective, having a least-common-denominator
> as a download default makes sense.

I agree, but aside from "least-common-denominator", which is logical.
Is it enough, without some statdemographic to back it up?
Has a canvas been done?

> <rant>
> This comes up *every single release* it seems like. I think that the
> web team did an exceptional job of redesigning the website, let's not
> go belittle their work. It's perfectly easy to use and easy to find
> what you're looking for, IMO.
> </rant>

You are entitled to rant.
But, I am quite capable of critique myself.
< rant />


--
Regards,

Frank Murphy
UTF_8 Encoded
Friend of fedoraproject.org
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Old 11-14-2011, 01:13 PM
Ben Williams
 
Default Recommend 64-bit download by default

At the moment having 32bit as the default is the safest for new users
who have no idea what the heck to download

(We see this queston at least 10x daily in #fedora "Which iso should I
Download i686 or x86_64?"

so i would rather see a compromise of not one or the other but both please

Ben
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