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Old 02-10-2008, 07:23 PM
"John Babich"
 
Default codec buddy, fluendo, etc.

On Feb 10, 2008 10:58 PM, Jeff Spaleta <jspaleta@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Feb 10, 2008 10:20 AM, Karsten 'quaid' Wade <kwade@redhat.com> wrote:
> > There is a legal line and a moral line. We are careful not to cross the
> > former, but we are having a hard time defining and keeping to the
> > latter.
>
>
> My moral line:
>
> We are not going to include closed source code directly in the
> repository we control, which is designed to execute on the computer
> architecture we build and release for.
>
> We will not include open source code that could only interact with
> proprietary data, but we will not hamper the user's ability to use
> proprietary data ( which is taken to mean copyrighted in such a way
> that is not distributable directly by Fedora, but still legally usable
> by individual users) whether that data is music, videos, web pages,
> documents,etc. This does not mean that "useful" open data has to be
> available..but it must be demonstratable that open content can be
> created for consumption by the code in question. Such open data does
> not need to be created using open tools, though of course that is
> preferable.
>
> We recognize that the line between code and data can be muddy,
> especially when we cross hardware or network boundaries or use
> emulation. We will continue to work on refining the policy in these
> areas. We recognize that our policy decisions will inevitable be prune
> to inconsistency due to the complexity of the situation, and we
> apologize in advance.
>
> We will limit any Fedora specific patching of upstream code projects
> which aims to remove user access to legally obtainable proprietary
> helper executables (plugins) or legally obtainable proprietary data.
> Some upstream projects have built frameworks which make it easier for
> end-users to access legal proprietary plugins. These plugins are
> outside the scope of our packaging repository which we directly
> control. While we continue to endeavor to users to use and contribute
> to the development of open tools over proprietary solutions, we
> recognize that our users make their own choices.. and the the upstream
> projects similarly make their own choices as to what to functionality
> to expose to end users.
>
> If upstream projects that use plugin detection technology are willing
> to support a choice of both open and closed plugins for the same task,
> then we are content to pass on that choice to the user. But if an
> upstream project prefers to only present proprietary solutions and
> makes no room for an open choice for the same task.. then we have
> cause to disable that plugin detection technology in our releases.
>
>
> How's that for a manifesto?
>

That's pretty a good manifesto. I'd sign it.

Best Regards,

John "Live Free or Die Closed" Babich

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Old 02-10-2008, 07:39 PM
"Paul W. Frields"
 
Default codec buddy, fluendo, etc.

On Sun, 2008-02-10 at 10:58 -0900, Jeff Spaleta wrote:
> On Feb 10, 2008 10:20 AM, Karsten 'quaid' Wade <kwade@redhat.com> wrote:
> > There is a legal line and a moral line. We are careful not to cross the
> > former, but we are having a hard time defining and keeping to the
> > latter.
>
>
> My moral line:
>
> We are not going to include closed source code directly in the
> repository we control, which is designed to execute on the computer
> architecture we build and release for.

This particular language protects our firmware decisions, so +1.

[...snip...]
> How's that for a manifesto?

Pretty darned good.

--
Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/
gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717
http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/
irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug
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Old 02-11-2008, 06:47 PM
Christopher Blizzard
 
Default codec buddy, fluendo, etc.

On Feb 10, 2008, at 3:39 PM, Paul W. Frields wrote:


How's that for a manifesto?


Pretty darned good.


<aol>
Me too.
</aol>

--Chris

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Old 02-11-2008, 07:10 PM
"Jeff Spaleta"
 
Default codec buddy, fluendo, etc.

On Feb 11, 2008 10:47 AM, Christopher Blizzard <blizzard@0xdeadbeef.com> wrote:
> <aol>
> Me too.
> </aol>


You forgot the emotions!!!!!!!

-jef

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Old 02-11-2008, 07:14 PM
Christopher Blizzard
 
Default codec buddy, fluendo, etc.

On Feb 11, 2008, at 3:10 PM, Jeff Spaleta wrote:

On Feb 11, 2008 10:47 AM, Christopher Blizzard <blizzard@0xdeadbeef.com
> wrote:

<aol>
Me too.
</aol>



You forgot the emotions!!!!!!!


I AM VERY EXCITED ABOUT YOUR PROPOSAL!!!one!!11

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Old 02-11-2008, 07:20 PM
David Malcolm
 
Default codec buddy, fluendo, etc.

On Sun, 2008-02-10 at 10:58 -0900, Jeff Spaleta wrote:
> On Feb 10, 2008 10:20 AM, Karsten 'quaid' Wade <kwade@redhat.com> wrote:
[snip]

> areas. We recognize that our policy decisions will inevitable be prune
> to inconsistency due to the complexity of the situation, and we
> apologize in advance.

s/prune/prone/g

(in case this ever gets formalized; nice writeup)

[snip]

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Old 02-11-2008, 07:23 PM
"Luis Villa"
 
Default codec buddy, fluendo, etc.

I'm applying some editing love because it is really good and probably
deserves to be published somewhere.

On Feb 10, 2008 2:58 PM, Jeff Spaleta <jspaleta@gmail.com> wrote:
> proprietary data ( which is taken to mean copyrighted in such a way

copyrighted->encumbered

> Such open data does
> not need to be created using open tools, though of course that is
> preferable.

I'm trying to think of a case where one can create open data, but only
with proprietary tools, and failing- I must be missing something
obvious, though.

> We recognize that the line between code and data can be muddy,
> especially when we cross hardware or network boundaries or use
> emulation. We will continue to work on refining the policy in these
> areas. We recognize that our policy decisions will inevitable be prune

prune->prone

> We will limit any Fedora specific patching of upstream code projects
> which aims to remove user access to legally obtainable proprietary
> helper executables (plugins) or legally obtainable proprietary data.

I'm not entirely sure I follow this sentence. Does 'which aims to
remove user access' apply to the patch, or the upstream code projects?

> Some upstream projects have built frameworks which make it easier for
> end-users to access legal proprietary plugins. These plugins are
> outside the scope of our packaging repository which we directly
> control. While we continue to endeavor to users to use and contribute

endeavor to users to-> hope (prefer?) that our users will ?

> to the development of open tools over proprietary solutions, we
> recognize that our users make their own choices.. and the the upstream

the the -> the

> projects similarly make their own choices as to what to functionality
> to expose to end users.
>
> If upstream projects that use plugin detection technology are willing
> to support a choice of both open and closed plugins for the same task,
> then we are content to pass on that choice to the user. But if an
> upstream project prefers to only present proprietary solutions and
> makes no room for an open choice for the same task.. then we have
> cause to disable that plugin detection technology in our releases.

have cause to->will ?

Overall, seems fairly solid as a manifesto and a policy.
Luis

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Old 02-11-2008, 07:29 PM
Greg DeKoenigsberg
 
Default codec buddy, fluendo, etc.

On Mon, 11 Feb 2008, Luis Villa wrote:


Overall, seems fairly solid as a manifesto and a policy.


+1.

Although the likely response from most will be "tl;dr".

--g

--
Greg DeKoenigsberg
Community Development Manager
Red Hat, Inc. :: 1-919-754-4255
"To whomsoever much hath been given...
...from him much shall be asked"

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Old 02-11-2008, 07:35 PM
"Luis Villa"
 
Default codec buddy, fluendo, etc.

On Feb 11, 2008 3:29 PM, Greg DeKoenigsberg <gdk@redhat.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 11 Feb 2008, Luis Villa wrote:
>
> > Overall, seems fairly solid as a manifesto and a policy.
>
> +1.
>
> Although the likely response from most will be "tl;dr".

That's a problem with most policies that have to deal with hard
issues. Six word summary... "do the right-ish thing; allow choice."

Luis

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Old 02-11-2008, 07:43 PM
"Jeff Spaleta"
 
Default codec buddy, fluendo, etc.

On Feb 11, 2008 11:20 AM, David Malcolm <dmalcolm@redhat.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 2008-02-10 at 10:58 -0900, Jeff Spaleta wrote:
> > On Feb 10, 2008 10:20 AM, Karsten 'quaid' Wade <kwade@redhat.com> wrote:
> [snip]
>
> > areas. We recognize that our policy decisions will inevitable be prune
> > to inconsistency due to the complexity of the situation, and we
> > apologize in advance.
>
> s/prune/prone/g
>
> (in case this ever gets formalized; nice writeup)

Damn you... you are destroying my attempt and subtle watermarking, so
that I can continue to track where my writings end up.

What are you going to do next.. go fix the Mona Lisa's eyebrows?
Every single one of my writings is true art! My thoughts are divine
inspiration, and the mistakes I make in communicating them speak
deeply to what it means for humanity to struggle for perfection using
imperfect physical tools. Its the imperfections in my writing that
define its essential character.

You sir have no taste.. no decency....no soul. I cry for you.
Can you please give me 3 dollars so I can order a beer to cry into?

-jef"i'm not enjoying the process of porting qnx4 pci and dma calls to
qnx6... not one bit"spaleta
-jef

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