Fedora 20 (yes, F20).

Hi,

Think for a minute or two. What do *you* think Fedora should focus on
for F15 and F16? How about F17? F18? F19...or... F20? What should F20
look like, how should it be, who uses it.... at least, for us to have
succeeded towards achieving our mission as a project?

Okay, hold that thought.

So, the Fedora Board has set a due date of Sep. 27 for the vision
statement to be finalized. The vision statement will probably be
something along the lines of the kind of thought you're holding now to
help us figure out what we should be doing between now and F20.

It seems like the convo kind of peters out here on the list [1], so
let's do a live chat on IRC and see what we come up with. Here's some
times during the rest of this week and early next week. Can you make any
of them?

http://whenisgood.net/srij2a

Fill it out with your available times! I'll try to announce a time by
this Friday AM for us to meet based on the responses I got. We'll hold
the discussion in #fedora-advisory-board on irc.freenode.net.

Please show up with your ideas for what Fedora 20 should look like!

~m

[1]
http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/advisory-board/2010-August/009026.html
(most recent thread)

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On Wed, Sep 08, 2010 at 18:24:33 -0400,
Máirín Duffy <duffy@fedoraproject.org> wrote:
>
> It seems like the convo kind of peters out here on the list [1], so
> let's do a live chat on IRC and see what we come up with. Here's some
> times during the rest of this week and early next week. Can you make any
> of them?

Are you going to do anything to capture a summary doing the irc chat? For
FADs we have used gobby and/or wiki pages to capture stuff.

This probably depends on your goals for the meeting. Doing the FAD type
stuff makes less sense if you are going to try to do things in less than
an hour.
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On Thu, 2010-09-09 at 11:13 -0500, Bruno Wolff III wrote:
> On Wed, Sep 08, 2010 at 18:24:33 -0400,
> Máirín Duffy <duffy@fedoraproject.org> wrote:
> >
> > It seems like the convo kind of peters out here on the list [1], so
> > let's do a live chat on IRC and see what we come up with. Here's some
> > times during the rest of this week and early next week. Can you make any
> > of them?
>
> Are you going to do anything to capture a summary doing the irc chat? For
> FADs we have used gobby and/or wiki pages to capture stuff.

Yeh I was thinking about doing meetingbot + wikipages. Although a gobby
session might be helpful too, no?

I only have one time slot respondent so far, I'm hoping more folks sign
up

~m

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On Thu, Sep 09, 2010 at 12:22:37 -0400,
Máirín Duffy <duffy@fedoraproject.org> wrote:
> On Thu, 2010-09-09 at 11:13 -0500, Bruno Wolff III wrote:
> > On Wed, Sep 08, 2010 at 18:24:33 -0400,
> > Máirín Duffy <duffy@fedoraproject.org> wrote:
> > >
> > > It seems like the convo kind of peters out here on the list [1], so
> > > let's do a live chat on IRC and see what we come up with. Here's some
> > > times during the rest of this week and early next week. Can you make any
> > > of them?
> >
> > Are you going to do anything to capture a summary doing the irc chat? For
> > FADs we have used gobby and/or wiki pages to capture stuff.
>
> Yeh I was thinking about doing meetingbot + wikipages. Although a gobby
> session might be helpful too, no?

In previous FADs gobby was used when multiple people were working on
the same task at the same time. Wikis were used when people split off
to do there own stuff and then were presented to the group after the
agreed working time.

I don't know how this meeting is going to work, so I am not sure which would
be better for during the meeting. Having the wiki for presenting the results
seems desireable. For gobby it was expected that you have an FAS account.
That might be an overly strict limitation for the meeting if you are expecting
casual users to participate.

> I only have one time slot respondent so far, I'm hoping more folks sign
> up

I wasn't sure if I was going to be a big asset, so I figured I would wait
and see when the meeting was and then show up if there wasn't a conflict
with something else. Besides, I don't like that calendar tool. I have to
accept it's style sheet and turn on javascript to get it to work.
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On Wed, 2010-09-08 at 18:24 -0400, Máirín Duffy wrote:

> Think for a minute or two. What do *you* think Fedora should focus on
> for F15 and F16? How about F17? F18? F19...or... F20? What should F20
> look like, how should it be, who uses it.... at least, for us to have
> succeeded towards achieving our mission as a project?

I want the following:

1). Installing and upgrading the system can be taken for granted to
work, every single time. My girlfriend (who is the kind of person who
would go to SXSW, as referenced in your blog post) can use Fedora
without random stuff breaking often after she logs in and upgrades.

2). No more re-inventing the wheel. The core system services are finally
deemed "good enough" and enough wisdom has grown to show the relative
lack of fun in re-inventing something just to make it 10% better. The
needs of the system are fully determined by user-driven requests.

3). Everything that has changed in Fedora up to F-20 is fully
standardized through the Linux Foundation, LSB, or other effort. There
are not ten different init daemons but just one or two used commonly on
all Linux systems. Everything is well understood and documented widely
in many books that need not be totally distribution specific.

4). F-20 as a release specifically focuses only on Quality, ignoring
everything else. There are no new features allowed whatsoever.

That's the beginning of my perfect little F-20 daydream.

Jon.


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Do what thou wilt
shall be the whole of the Law.


On Thu, Sep 9, 2010 at 2:07 PM, Jon Masters <jonathan@jonmasters.org> wrote:
> On Wed, 2010-09-08 at 18:24 -0400, Máirín Duffy wrote:
>as a project?
>
> I want the following:

................

> 4). F-20 as a release specifically focuses only on Quality, ignoring
> everything else. There are no new features allowed whatsoever.
>
> That's the beginning of my perfect little F-20 daydream.
>
> Jon.
>
>

<sarcasm> feature upgrades? we don't need no stinkin' feature
upgrades! </sarcasm>
--
charles zeitler



Love is the law, love under will.
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On Fri, 2010-09-10 at 16:32 -0500, charles zeitler wrote:
> Do what thou wilt
> shall be the whole of the Law.

This is the third time I've seen you post this reply word-for-word to
one of my mailing list posts.

Why are you compelled to write such emails? Do you think that's useful?

This is a community. It is not a carnival booth shooting game.

Thanks,
~m

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On Fri, 2010-09-10 at 17:40 -0400, Máirín Duffy wrote:
> On Fri, 2010-09-10 at 16:32 -0500, charles zeitler wrote:
> > Do what thou wilt
> > shall be the whole of the Law.
>
> This is the third time I've seen you post this reply word-for-word to
> one of my mailing list posts.
>
> Why are you compelled to write such emails? Do you think that's useful?
>
> This is a community. It is not a carnival booth shooting game.

It was pointed out to me that the "thou wilt" text may be a top-posted
quote/fortune (although in my 16 years of using the internet I've never
seen that before.) If that is the case I apologize.

I will note however that treating the ideas and thoughts folks share on
this list like a carnival booth shooting game is absolutely not
acceptable. *Even* if you don't agree with them. This is a community.
I'm sure you'll agree it's no fun to participate in a community where
you're treated the way you treated Jon's idea.

If you disagree with an idea, why not try to use it as inspiration to
build a better idea?

~m

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On Fri, 2010-09-10 at 17:55 -0400, Máirín Duffy wrote:
> On Fri, 2010-09-10 at 17:40 -0400, Máirín Duffy wrote:
> > On Fri, 2010-09-10 at 16:32 -0500, charles zeitler wrote:
> > > Do what thou wilt
> > > shall be the whole of the Law.
> >
> > This is the third time I've seen you post this reply word-for-word to
> > one of my mailing list posts.
> >
> > Why are you compelled to write such emails? Do you think that's useful?
> >
> > This is a community. It is not a carnival booth shooting game.
>
> It was pointed out to me that the "thou wilt" text may be a top-posted
> quote/fortune (although in my 16 years of using the internet I've never
> seen that before.) If that is the case I apologize.

Funny, I read it as some kind of Libertarian-"inspired" nonsense

Jon.


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On Fri, Sep 10, 2010 at 5:24 PM, Jon Masters <jonathan@jonmasters.org> wrote:

> On Fri, 2010-09-10 at 17:40 -0400, Máirín Duffy wrote:

> > On Fri, 2010-09-10 at 16:32 -0500, charles zeitler wrote:

> > > Do what thou wilt

> > > shall *be the whole *of the Law.


Funny, I read it as some kind of Libertarian-"inspired" nonsense
It's from the "religious philosophy" called Thelema[1], invented Aleister Crowley[1], who self titled himself "The Great Beast."*It means, roughly, "whatever you want to do (generally from a hedonistic perspective), just do it," or, "I'm an angst ridden kid who likes to mark my rebellion against The Man(tm) by trying to shock adults."

[1]*http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thelema[2]*http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alestair_crowley

--
Chris




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