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Old 06-18-2010, 02:03 PM
Máirín Duffy
 
Default Planet Fedora guidelines?

http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/oktarahadian/~3/3LGRNs5v_cw/


Is it just me who takes issue with a 400x400 px ubuntu logo on the top
Planet Fedora?

~m

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Old 06-18-2010, 02:11 PM
seth vidal
 
Default Planet Fedora guidelines?

On Fri, 2010-06-18 at 10:03 -0400, Máirín Duffy wrote:
> http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/oktarahadian/~3/3LGRNs5v_cw/
>
>
> Is it just me who takes issue with a 400x400 px ubuntu logo on the top
> Planet Fedora?
>

I'd be happy to add it to the ban list.


-sv


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Old 06-18-2010, 02:13 PM
Nicu Buculei
 
Default Planet Fedora guidelines?

On 06/18/2010 05:03 PM, Máirín Duffy wrote:
> http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/oktarahadian/~3/3LGRNs5v_cw/
>
>
> Is it just me who takes issue with a 400x400 px ubuntu logo on the top
> Planet Fedora?

I find it disturbing too but I would hate to have policies and
enforcement, is a slippery slope on which if we engage may find
ourselves in a less friendly place.

Maybe is a better way if someone who knows closely this person (probably
they work in the same area) give him *privately* an advice (so no
flaming in his blog comments).

PS: honestly, I was more disturbed a while ago by some "download
Silverlight" on Planet Gnome.

--
nicu :: http://nicubunu.ro :: http://nicubunu.blogspot.com/
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Old 06-18-2010, 02:14 PM
Luis Villa
 
Default Planet Fedora guidelines?

Insecure much?

Not that you need to put full-time ubuntu people on planet, but some
people will work on both projects. That is natural and healthy, and
that'll mean some things like this.

Luis


2010/6/18 Máirín Duffy <duffy@fedoraproject.org>:
> http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/oktarahadian/~3/3LGRNs5v_cw/
>
>
> Is it just me who takes issue with a 400x400 px ubuntu logo on the top
> Planet Fedora?
>
> ~m
>
> _______________________________________________
> advisory-board mailing list
> advisory-board@lists.fedoraproject.org
> https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/advisory-board
>
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Old 06-18-2010, 02:21 PM
seth vidal
 
Default Planet Fedora guidelines?

On Fri, 2010-06-18 at 07:14 -0700, Luis Villa wrote:
> Insecure much?
>
> Not that you need to put full-time ubuntu people on planet, but some
> people will work on both projects. That is natural and healthy, and
> that'll mean some things like this.


LEmme know when the Chrome logos go up on mozilla/firefox planet

'kay?

-sv




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Old 06-18-2010, 02:24 PM
Máirín Duffy
 
Default Planet Fedora guidelines?

On Fri, 2010-06-18 at 17:13 +0300, Nicu Buculei wrote:
> On 06/18/2010 05:03 PM, Máirín Duffy wrote:
> > http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/oktarahadian/~3/3LGRNs5v_cw/
> >
> >
> > Is it just me who takes issue with a 400x400 px ubuntu logo on the top
> > Planet Fedora?
>
> I find it disturbing too but I would hate to have policies and
> enforcement, is a slippery slope on which if we engage may find
> ourselves in a less friendly place.

The problem is, while to you and me it is obvious that a huge ubuntu
logo as your first post on Planet Fedora is at best dumb and at worst
rude and adversarial, it seems it is not to some of the people we've
been nice enough to give the open privilege to post to our planet.

I think just letting it go makes it appear to be an ok thing to do when
it's NOT.

Maybe we don't need policies and enforcement (I certainly think they are
an annoying overhead on top of anything they are applied to), but I
certainly do not want to have to tolerate this kind of crap and enable
people to be less than excellent *just* for the sake of not having
policies and enforcement.

The person is apparently a new FAS account holder and a recent Planet
Fedora addition, and just may not understand. And how would he if we
don't have any guidelines written anywhere?

~m

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Old 06-18-2010, 02:33 PM
Máirín Duffy
 
Default Planet Fedora guidelines?

On Fri, 2010-06-18 at 07:14 -0700, Luis Villa wrote:
> Insecure much?

Snarky much?

This is why I hate mailing lists. Would you ask me that to my face?

> Not that you need to put full-time ubuntu people on planet, but some
> people will work on both projects. That is natural and healthy, and
> that'll mean some things like this.

It's not clear this person has contributed to Fedora in any way. He just
added himself to our planet this week and has been an account holder for
less than a month. His hugeass ubuntu logo is accompanied by a form for
some ubuntu product that asks a lot of personal information.

This isn't, say, a GNOME hacker working on an Ubuntu issue and who also
happens to be on Planet Fedora - which we've seen quite a lot of on our
planet and about which I could care less.

~m

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Old 06-18-2010, 02:37 PM
inode0
 
Default Planet Fedora guidelines?

2010/6/18 Máirín Duffy <duffy@fedoraproject.org>:
> On Fri, 2010-06-18 at 17:13 +0300, Nicu Buculei wrote:
>> On 06/18/2010 05:03 PM, Máirín Duffy wrote:
>> > http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/oktarahadian/~3/3LGRNs5v_cw/
>> >
>> >
>> > Is it just me who takes issue with a 400x400 px ubuntu logo on the top
>> > Planet Fedora?
>>
>> I find it disturbing too but I would hate to have policies and
>> enforcement, is a slippery slope on which if we engage may find
>> ourselves *in a less friendly place.
>
> The problem is, while to you and me it is obvious that a huge ubuntu
> logo as your first post on Planet Fedora is at best dumb and at worst
> rude and adversarial, it seems it is not to some of the people we've
> been nice enough to give the open privilege to post to our planet.
>
> I think just letting it go makes it appear to be an ok thing to do when
> it's NOT.

Whatever happened to the days when the planet was a place for
contributors to express themselves, both personally and
professionally, "warts and all?"

Given that the Fedora Planet is a fine place to express political
views about what is going on in one country or another I can't believe
we are now talking about policing posts that appear to actually be
about free software.

When I asked on this list about discouraging political rants on the
planet because it makes us all look like idiots to new readers I was
given the "warts and all" explanation of why that is fine. I accepted
that then and unless it was complete BS this doesn't bother me in the
least.

> Maybe we don't need policies and enforcement (I certainly think they are
> an annoying overhead on top of anything they are applied to), but I
> certainly do not want to have to tolerate this kind of crap and enable
> people to be less than excellent *just* for the sake of not having
> policies and enforcement.
>
> The person is apparently a new FAS account holder and a recent Planet
> Fedora addition, and just may not understand. And how would he if we
> don't have any guidelines written anywhere?

He will learn the ropes by having other contributors "be excellent" to
him by making a stink about commenting on the Ubuntu manual project?

John
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Old 06-18-2010, 02:57 PM
Luis Villa
 
Default Planet Fedora guidelines?

2010/6/18 Máirín Duffy <duffy@fedoraproject.org>:
> On Fri, 2010-06-18 at 07:14 -0700, Luis Villa wrote:
>> Insecure much?
>
> Snarky much?
>
> This is why I hate mailing lists. Would you ask me that to my face?

Yes, actually, though it would have had more nuance and you'd have the
right to give me a good smack or walk away, both of which are hard
here.

Seth asked about Chrome and Firefox; I think
http://twitter.com/mozillafavs might be instructive- these are tweets
that Mozilla employees retweet to the world from screens inside our
office. They frequently contain positive comments about Chrome and
negative comments about Firefox- complaints about crashes, kudos to
our competitors, etc. That's the right response to problems like this-
don't say 'ban them!', acknowledge and embrace the competition, and
then ask 'why is this happening? what do we do to make ourselves
competitive so that this doesn't happen?' While you can argue whether
or not Mozilla is doing this effectively, I think it is hard to argue
that it isn't a healthier long-term approach than the reflexive
whining about Ubuntu that seems (at least to this relative outsider)
to have permeated the Fedora culture.

[And of course 'any shmuck can add himself to planet and talk about
non-fedora things' is a different problem from 'there is a giant logo
of our competitors on our planet.' The first is worth worrying and
thinking about, but the second... again, not so much.]

Luis
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Old 06-18-2010, 03:02 PM
Máirín Duffy
 
Default Planet Fedora guidelines?

On Fri, 2010-06-18 at 09:37 -0500, inode0 wrote:
> Whatever happened to the days when the planet was a place for
> contributors to express themselves, both personally and
> professionally, "warts and all?"

At least a couple of things have happened since those days:

- our community has gotten bigger, unwritten social rules aren't as
easily known anymore

- the privilege of being a member of the planet has been extended to
anyone who signs up for an FAS account. From my POV, it used to be on
many if not most planets that you had to work within the project for a
while and become a well-known contributor before you were extended an
invitation to be added, which was considered a sort of honor. (Obviously
there are problems with that older model, like who gets to decide and
when)

I enjoy reading about Fedora contributors' lives outside of Fedora, and
I don't think anyone would advocate that posts to our planet must be
Fedora-only.

That shouldn't give any one person carte blanche to post whatever they
want, however. There are many Planet contributors who filter out
particular posts from reaching the planet because they actually care to
consider their audience. That kind of consideration for other people is
a good thing.

> Given that the Fedora Planet is a fine place to express political
> views about what is going on in one country or another I can't believe
> we are now talking about policing posts that appear to actually be
> about free software.

Seth mentioned the possibility of policing the post. I think the post is
a problem but I don't know if policing is the best way to deal with it.
>
> When I asked on this list about discouraging political rants on the
> planet because it makes us all look like idiots to new readers I was
> given the "warts and all" explanation of why that is fine. I accepted
> that then and unless it was complete BS this doesn't bother me in the
> least.

I don't think I read that discussion - I don't remember it. It's kind of
hard to draw a strong line. It's easy to say "Fedora posts only" but I
don't think anyone wants that. I also think there are several valid
cases for Ubuntu-related posts on the planet, and such posts have
happened before without issue.

But how about sexualized photos of scantily-clad women? I'm not cool
with that. Maybe some people are, but I don't want to have to stop
reading planet Fedora because I'm afraid of what might come up. If I'm
browsing planet Fedora during the workday and a big picture of Lucy Liu
in a wet white bikini is on my screen, according to my office's sexual
harassment policies, I'd be in trouble! To folks who don't work for Red
Hat, such an incident might be reason for their work in Fedora to no
longer be sanctioned by their employer.

To me it seems there are clearly classes of posts that aren't
acceptable.

> > Maybe we don't need policies and enforcement (I certainly think they are
> > an annoying overhead on top of anything they are applied to), but I
> > certainly do not want to have to tolerate this kind of crap and enable
> > people to be less than excellent *just* for the sake of not having
> > policies and enforcement.
> >
> > The person is apparently a new FAS account holder and a recent Planet
> > Fedora addition, and just may not understand. And how would he if we
> > don't have any guidelines written anywhere?
>
> He will learn the ropes by having other contributors "be excellent" to
> him by making a stink about commenting on the Ubuntu manual project?

First of all, did you take a look at the link he provided? To me, it
appears to be a commercial page looking to grab a lot of detailed
personal information about people before offering anything of use.

Secondly, are you criticizing me for bringing this up at all? How have I
been not excellent in bringing up the issue here? Should I have kept my
mouth shut? Is what I've written in protest really offensive or hurtful
to the poster in question?

~m

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