FAQ Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
» Video Reviews

» Linux Archive

Linux-archive is a website aiming to archive linux email lists and to make them easily accessible for linux users/developers.


» Sponsor

» Partners

» Sponsor

Go Back   Linux Archive > Redhat > Fedora Advisory Board

 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
 
Old 05-11-2010, 12:47 AM
Luis Villa
 
Default idea: suggestion box

On Mon, May 10, 2010 at 5:46 PM, Mike McGrath <mmcgrath@redhat.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 10 May 2010, Kevin Fenzi wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 8 May 2010 23:18:14 +0530
>> Rahul Sundaram <metherid@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > On Wed, May 5, 2010 at 9:26 PM, Kevin Fenzi <kevin@tummy.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > > Greetings.
>> > >
>> > > I was thinking it might be a nice idea to have Fedora Engineering
>> > > Services create for us a "Fedora Suggestion Box".
>> >
>> >
>> > You can use ideatorrent for this as it is quite a close fit
>> >
>> > http://ideatorrent.org
>>
>> Interesting, but I'm not sure I want all that.
>>
>> I don't know that voting and having a full blown ideastorm like site is
>> that great. I think it lends into having a lot of people expect that
>> ideas that are "voted" the highest will automagically be worked on,
>> when it's not really the case.
>>
>
> This brings up an interesting counter point. *Perhaps we shouldn't be
> accepting ideas until we have more willing and able workers?

Yeah... your existing 'idea box' (bugzilla) could possibly use some
love first too...

Luis
_______________________________________________
advisory-board mailing list
advisory-board@lists.fedoraproject.org
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/advisory-board
 
Old 05-11-2010, 12:54 AM
Jeff Spaleta
 
Default idea: suggestion box

On Mon, May 10, 2010 at 4:29 PM, Kevin Fenzi <kevin@tummy.com> wrote:
> I don't know that voting and having a full blown ideastorm like site is
> that great. I think it lends into having a lot of people expect that
> ideas that are "voted" the highest will automagically be worked on,
> when it's not really the case.


Only if you expose the vote totals for viewing directly.

You can use idea voting in another way...you can encourage people to
vote on ideas and then systematically sort the collection of ideas and
voting records to come up with clumps of ideas and corresponding
clumps of people who support a common theme and encourage them to work
together towards their common aims. Instead of simply voting and
expecting others to work on it the idea voting process becomes a way
to map out groups of people who can work together towards a shared
interest. The board can look over the identified clumps, identity the
ones that are generally inline with overall project goals and work to
get the clumps of people working together as a self-supporting group.

Its like how online dating sites work. Answer questions (creating a
voting record) and use that to find a similarity metric. Except we can
do it to find proto-working groups in a way that hopefully
self-selects against poisonous personalities.


In this sort of scheme, general popularity of a single idea isn't the
metric. Its the similarity of multiple ideas and how people prioritize
ideas.

We could go further along the onling dating system analogy and if we
could collect skills information we could even try to figure out which
proto-team not only has critical mass of interested participants but
also skillset coverage.

-jef
_______________________________________________
advisory-board mailing list
advisory-board@lists.fedoraproject.org
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/advisory-board
 
Old 05-11-2010, 01:05 AM
Matt Domsch
 
Default idea: suggestion box

> I don't know that voting and having a full blown ideastorm like site is
> that great. I think it lends into having a lot of people expect that
> ideas that are "voted" the highest will automagically be worked on,
> when it's not really the case.

This has been one of the biggest criticisms of Dell's IdeaStorm site -
that status updates on progress towards ideas is slow to arrive, and
in most cases the ideas proposed are in fact never implemented. I do
my part to be sure requests in my sphere of influence get heard, and
in some cases can be acted upon. Similar caveats would need to apply
to the Fedora ideabox - ideas are great, especially if they come along
with people to implement them!
_______________________________________________
advisory-board mailing list
advisory-board@lists.fedoraproject.org
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/advisory-board
 
Old 05-11-2010, 01:05 AM
Robyn Bergeron
 
Default idea: suggestion box

On Mon, May 10, 2010 at 5:46 PM, Mike McGrath <mmcgrath@redhat.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 10 May 2010, Kevin Fenzi wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 8 May 2010 23:18:14 +0530
>> Rahul Sundaram <metherid@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > On Wed, May 5, 2010 at 9:26 PM, Kevin Fenzi <kevin@tummy.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > > Greetings.
>> > >
>> > > I was thinking it might be a nice idea to have Fedora Engineering
>> > > Services create for us a "Fedora Suggestion Box".
>> >
>> >
>> > You can use ideatorrent for this as it is quite a close fit
>> >
>> > http://ideatorrent.org
>>
>> Interesting, but I'm not sure I want all that.
>>
>> I don't know that voting and having a full blown ideastorm like site is
>> that great. I think it lends into having a lot of people expect that
>> ideas that are "voted" the highest will automagically be worked on,
>> when it's not really the case.
>>
>
> This brings up an interesting counter point. *Perhaps we shouldn't be
> accepting ideas until we have more willing and able workers?

I think this could work both ways - having a centralized point where
newcomers could locate tasks suited to their abilities, available
time, or depth of knowledge of the Fedora project could lead to....
more contributors. It's a lot easier to click on, "I know how to do
X, Y, and Z," and be able to look at a definitive list of "here are
contributions I can make that match up with my capabilities" - than to
than look through the marketing, docs, infrastructure, and design
ticket lists and find things that match up.

On-ramps are good for new contributors. It is much easier to learn
how to turn a car right onto a neighborhood street than to learn how
to merge onto a LA freeway in a stickshift on your first drive. If
we can identify and separate the easier tasks from the harder ones -
we stand a chance of being able to migrate new contributors more
easily, help them find what they can do to help, and cultivate them
into full-fledged contributors who can take on some of the more
involved tasks.

-robyn
_______________________________________________
advisory-board mailing list
advisory-board@lists.fedoraproject.org
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/advisory-board
 
Old 05-11-2010, 11:35 AM
Paul Frields
 
Default idea: suggestion box

On Mon, May 10, 2010 at 8:54 PM, Jeff Spaleta <jspaleta@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, May 10, 2010 at 4:29 PM, Kevin Fenzi <kevin@tummy.com> wrote:
>> I don't know that voting and having a full blown ideastorm like site is
>> that great. I think it lends into having a lot of people expect that
>> ideas that are "voted" the highest will automagically be worked on,
>> when it's not really the case.
>
>
> Only if you expose the vote totals for viewing directly.
>
> You can use idea voting in another way...you can encourage people to
> vote on ideas and then systematically sort the collection of ideas and
> voting records to come up with clumps of ideas and corresponding
> clumps of people who support a common theme and encourage them to work
> together towards their common aims. Instead of simply voting and
> expecting others to work on it the idea voting process becomes a way
> to map out groups of people who can work together towards a shared
> interest. *The board can look over the identified clumps, identity the
> ones that are generally inline with overall project goals and work to
> get the clumps of people working together as a self-supporting group.
>
> Its like how online dating sites work. Answer questions (creating a
> voting record) and use that to find a similarity metric. Except we can
> do it to find proto-working groups in a way that hopefully
> self-selects against poisonous personalities.
>
> In this sort of scheme, general popularity of a single idea isn't the
> metric. Its the similarity of multiple ideas and how people prioritize
> ideas.
>
> We could go further along the onling dating system analogy and if we
> could collect skills information we could even try to figure out which
> proto-team not only has critical mass of interested participants but
> also skillset coverage.

If the submissions were called something other than "ideas" or
"suggestions" we could avoid creating the impression that they'll just
magically happen. "Proposal" seems a bit awkward but is probably
closer to what people prefer across the project. It'd be helpful to
include a simple checkbox along with each submission: "[ ] I am
willing and able to spend a few hours a week working on this
proposal." Tagging would provide a means to sort the proposals into
clusters, possibly.

Paul
_______________________________________________
advisory-board mailing list
advisory-board@lists.fedoraproject.org
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/advisory-board
 
Old 05-11-2010, 02:38 PM
Bill Nottingham
 
Default idea: suggestion box

Robyn Bergeron (robyn.bergeron@gmail.com) said:
> I think this could work both ways - having a centralized point where
> newcomers could locate tasks suited to their abilities, available
> time, or depth of knowledge of the Fedora project could lead to....
> more contributors. It's a lot easier to click on, "I know how to do
> X, Y, and Z," and be able to look at a definitive list of "here are
> contributions I can make that match up with my capabilities" - than to
> than look through the marketing, docs, infrastructure, and design
> ticket lists and find things that match up.
>
> On-ramps are good for new contributors. It is much easier to learn
> how to turn a car right onto a neighborhood street than to learn how
> to merge onto a LA freeway in a stickshift on your first drive. If
> we can identify and separate the easier tasks from the harder ones -
> we stand a chance of being able to migrate new contributors more
> easily, help them find what they can do to help, and cultivate them
> into full-fledged contributors who can take on some of the more
> involved tasks.

So, rather than a idea-storm dropbox, this sounds like expanding
the existing 'Fedora Engineering Services' into a larger project.

Bill
_______________________________________________
advisory-board mailing list
advisory-board@lists.fedoraproject.org
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/advisory-board
 
Old 05-11-2010, 04:24 PM
Jeff Spaleta
 
Default idea: suggestion box

On Tue, May 11, 2010 at 3:35 AM, Paul Frields <stickster@gmail.com> wrote:
> If the submissions were called something other than "ideas" or
> "suggestions" we could avoid creating the impression that they'll just
> magically happen. "Proposal" seems a bit awkward but is probably
> closer to what people prefer across the project. It'd be helpful to
> include a simple checkbox along with each submission: "[ ] I am
> willing and able to spend a few hours a week working on this
> proposal." Tagging would provide a means to sort the proposals into
> clusters, possibly.


I already have a toy algorithm for similarity analysis. The Ubuntu
Brainstorm people gave me a dump of their anonymous voting record with
which to test a while back. I could only take it so far because its
anonymous. I did see clumps, but I couldn't actually identify a group
of people to talk to. And the way they construct polling doesn't
encourage people to build up a broad voting record so their data was
very sparse. Instead of thousands and thousands of questions which
only get a few votes each on average. What I need is a system that
encourages people to express their interest consistently across many
tens of questions. It doesn't have to be all questions, and it
doesn't have to be a simple yes/no..range works. Enough people
answer enough of the same questions in a way that expresses like or
dislike.

The direct "i'll work on this tagging" isn't strictly needed. Whether
that sort of check box is there is not important to the broader
similarity analysis. The clumps of people (and ideas) fall out of the
voting records. As long as many of our contributors..both potential
and active are building up a record of interest across the question
space...we get a dense enough data set to do a similarity analysis and
find the clumps fall out of that.

I would actually require people who used such a system to affirm a
desire to actively participate in some part of the project and to
state what they think they can contribute in terms of time on a weekly
basis on average working on "something". The goal for me would be to
use the voting record to identify good fits between groups of people
and projects (both existing and new). When on review a strong clump
is a set of new ideas and primarily new people, the Board may feel
compelled to step in and guide that group into standing up as a new
project team.

People who already have a strong idea of what they prefer to work on
are going to gravitate towards that on their own regardless. The
similarity stuff asks to get a broad view of likes and dislikes to
help point people who are interested generally into the direction
likely to be a positive experience for them, and the others in the
team.

-jef
_______________________________________________
advisory-board mailing list
advisory-board@lists.fedoraproject.org
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/advisory-board
 

Thread Tools




All times are GMT. The time now is 07:55 AM.

VBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO ©2007, Crawlability, Inc.
Copyright 2007 - 2008, www.linux-archive.org