Which is why you ask the community, at large, "Why didn't you vote?"
Some of the reasons (IMHO of course):
- the base of active contributes that really want to be involved is a
lot smaller then the total numbers
- those permitted to vote didn't get a direct information (e.g. a direct
mail straight to their inbox (or was there one and I forgot about
it/missed it?)); only those that follow planet or some of the mailing
lists were aware that a election was in progress (which might be a good
thing as I#d consider only those people as active in Fedora; but that's
a different topic).
I almost decided not to vote this time, because in the list of eight
nominees I didn't see any real community representatives.
[lot's of good point to most of whom I partly or totally agree to
snipped, as they are already being discussed]
In the end I voted, but used only a small fraction of my voting points.
A bit like participation and boycott at the same time.
I actually in the beginning also didn't know if it was worth voting or
not. In the end I gave most points to the spare time contributes and
gave nearly none to the others. It's not that I think the Red Hat people
do a worse job than the others; in fact I suppose it's even the opposite
in some of the cases. But I actually feared a bit that the result of the
election might look like the outcome we have now.
To explain that a bit more: those elected are much present in the Fedora
Project (lists, development work, ...). If you are a Fedora contributor
then chances are high that you had to deal with them or at least heard
of them a few times. So when it comes to an election like this people
just vote for those nominees they know of/were in contact with. That's
how humans afaics vote.
But three of those four elected are Red Hat employees for whom working
and contributing to Fedora is part of their job (afaik; but is it the
case for Seth? not completely sure, sorry. But he is well known in
Fedora though Yum, so that might be and important factor); the fourth is
mainly working in another area of Red Hat. The only spare time
contributor that was elected was *quite active* on the
lists/planet/board in the past months and with his special way/humor
easy to remember for people -- those are the things that likely helped a
lot in this election afaics.
So one might say it were the right people that got elected -- the
nominees that at least from a quick look were the most active one the
recent months in Fedora.
But on the other hand the those three Red Hat employees that got elected
had a big advantage: they did a lot (not all!) of their Fedora work
during their work time. That's not right or wrong, it's just the way it
is afaics.
Which brings me to the point: Maybe doing public elections to form the
Board is not the right thing to do as Red Hat employees that work on
Fedora have a big advantage accidentally. Maybe other way are better
then a election. Or we need something like the gnome board style: limit
the maximum numbers of people from one company (whatever company that is).
Just my 2 cent.
Cu
knurd
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06-24-2008, 09:02 PM
"Jeff Spaleta"
Fedora Board election results
On Tue, Jun 24, 2008 at 12:53 PM, inode0 <inode0@gmail.com> wrote:
> I agree that a person nominated should not have to do anything. What
> about a community nominations page where community members could
> nominate people they would like to see on the ballot and give reasons
> why. It could have two checkboxes for "I accept" and "I decline" for
> the nominated person to use to acknowledge the nomination. Clicking "I
> accept" would lead to the now candidate filling out what candidates
> fill out in the self-nomination process. Doing nothing or checking the
> "I decline" box leaves the nominated member off the ballot.
I'm fine with that... and the stated reasons for offering the
nomination translate to a set of personal endorsements for those would
be candidates.
-jef
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06-24-2008, 09:02 PM
Max Spevack
Fedora Board election results
On Tue, 24 Jun 2008, Thorsten Leemhuis wrote:
But three of those four elected are Red Hat employees for whom working
and contributing to Fedora is part of their job (afaik; but is it the
case for Seth? not completely sure, sorry.
Spot, Jesse, and Seth are all paid to spend 100% of their working time
on tasks directly related to Fedora, or upstream tools (packages, build
system, yum) that Fedora uses.
--Max
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06-24-2008, 09:12 PM
Thorsten Leemhuis
Fedora Board election results
On 24.06.2008 23:02, Max Spevack wrote:
On Tue, 24 Jun 2008, Thorsten Leemhuis wrote:
But three of those four elected are Red Hat employees for whom working
and contributing to Fedora is part of their job (afaik; but is it the
case for Seth? not completely sure, sorry.
Spot, Jesse, and Seth are all paid to spend 100% of their working time
on tasks directly related to Fedora, or upstream tools (packages, build
system, yum) that Fedora uses.
Thx Max for the clarification.
And just a clarification: there is nothing wrong with being a Red Hat
employee working on Fedora being elected to the board. It's just that
these three guys imho without purpose had a huge advantage in the
election due to their work.
CU
knurd
<humor>
P.S.: Earlier in this thread this could be read:
Is there any sort of criteria they use to pick the last seat? I'm just
curious.
The last seat is picked with the goal of balancing the background of the
other seats on the Board.
So we get a woman on board?
/me hides
</humor>
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06-24-2008, 09:15 PM
"Jeff Spaleta"
Fedora Board election results
On Tue, Jun 24, 2008 at 12:54 PM, Thorsten Leemhuis
<fedora@leemhuis.info> wrote:
> But on the other hand the those three Red Hat employees that got elected had
> a big advantage: they did a lot (not all!) of their Fedora work during their
> work time. That's not right or wrong, it's just the way it is afaics.
>
> Which brings me to the point: Maybe doing public elections to form the Board
> is not the right thing to do as Red Hat employees that work on Fedora have a
> big advantage accidentally. Maybe other way are better then a election. Or
> we need something like the gnome board style: limit the maximum numbers of
> people from one company (whatever company that is).
I am sympathetic to the argument that deep involvement correlates with
exposure and better recognition. However, I would also suggest that
its a damn good thing to have people paid to deal with Fedora on the
board. My volunteer status makes me some what impotent when it comes
to driving issues forward consistently considering the tenuous nature
of my time commitment.
The answer isn't necessarily limiting the involvement of paid time
people in the election process. The answer maybe finding more ways to
get people paid for working inside of the Fedora project.. above and
beyond what Red Hat can support directly. Or the answer maybe doing a
better job of giving new candidates a platform to speak with regard to
topical concerns or new ideas. If we rely too heavily on a body of
previous contribution, we are going to be short changing people with
new ideas.
-jef
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06-24-2008, 09:16 PM
Jesse Keating
Fedora Board election results
On Tue, 2008-06-24 at 17:02 -0400, Max Spevack wrote:
>
> Spot, Jesse, and Seth are all paid to spend 100% of their working time
> on tasks directly related to Fedora, or upstream tools (packages, build
> system, yum) that Fedora uses.
That's nearly true with me. I'm actually in the Release Configuration
Management group within Red Hat, and while my stated duties are Fedora,
I also at times work on non-Fedora things where I and my manager see fit
to spend my time.
--
Jesse Keating
Fedora -- Freedom˛ is a feature!
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06-24-2008, 09:18 PM
Michael Schwendt
Fedora Board election results
On Tue, 24 Jun 2008 16:02:04 -0400 (EDT), Max Spevack wrote:
> What else would you like to see from Red Hat to prove that it takes
> Fedora and community seriously? I'm not trolling, I really want to
> konw, so that I can work on making it happen.
What I mean is that almost all Fedora related decisions come out of Red
Hat anyway. The few +1 from community seats during FPB meetings don't
matter, do they? They are just noise. It gets more interesting if a
community rep drives something forward. Or if there is disagreement
between Red Hat's FPB members and community reps or lobbyists. If
necessary, do the people on the community seats have the guts to represent
the community's interests? If they don't, what about accountability?
The financial investments you refer to only add to the fact of how big Red
Hat's stake in the Fedora Project is. No budget increase, no growth. No
people working on Fedora full-time, no growth. The project is still young
and must grow. Hence Red Hat is forced to find a balance between pursuing
its own business goals with Fedora and opening up further to increase the
community's investment in Fedora, which is still poor. As you can see
whenever a long-time contributor or user leaves disgruntled. The decision
to leave is too easy. Voting community reps is a nice gimmick, but doesn't
result in power.
It's still too early to say we have a large pool of community reps to draw
from for FPB seats. A growing number of contributors, yes, but only very
few with interest in [project] politics, project management, and the
additional time requirements.
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06-24-2008, 09:37 PM
"Paul W. Frields"
Fedora Board election results
On Tue, 2008-06-24 at 23:12 +0200, Thorsten Leemhuis wrote:
> On 24.06.2008 23:02, Max Spevack wrote:
> > On Tue, 24 Jun 2008, Thorsten Leemhuis wrote:
> >
> >> But three of those four elected are Red Hat employees for whom working
> >> and contributing to Fedora is part of their job (afaik; but is it the
> >> case for Seth? not completely sure, sorry.
> > Spot, Jesse, and Seth are all paid to spend 100% of their working time
> > on tasks directly related to Fedora, or upstream tools (packages, build
> > system, yum) that Fedora uses.
>
> Thx Max for the clarification.
>
> And just a clarification: there is nothing wrong with being a Red Hat
> employee working on Fedora being elected to the board. It's just that
> these three guys imho without purpose had a huge advantage in the
> election due to their work.
>
> CU
> knurd
>
> <humor>
> P.S.: Earlier in this thread this could be read:
>
> >> Is there any sort of criteria they use to pick the last seat? I'm just
> >> curious.
> > The last seat is picked with the goal of balancing the background of the
> > other seats on the Board.
>
> So we get a woman on board?
>
> /me hides
>
> </humor>
What if a woman on the short list for this spot was a Red Hat employee?
On Tue, Jun 24, 2008 at 1:18 PM, Michael Schwendt <bugs.michael@gmx.net> wrote:
> What I mean is that almost all Fedora related decisions come out of Red
> Hat anyway. The few +1 from community seats during FPB meetings don't
> matter, do they? They are just noise. It gets more interesting if a
> community rep drives something forward.
Uhm formation of the Spin SIG? I'm pretty sure I drove that forward
from the Board side. I think I had to strangle some kittens to do it.
I'm still watching how that is going. If there is a serious problem
with how that is moving forward I have no problem wading in and
throwing my weight around.
> Or if there is disagreement
> between Red Hat's FPB members and community reps or lobbyists. If
> necessary, do the people on the community seats have the guts to represent
> the community's interests? If they don't, what about accountability?
>From my point of view, its more like the rest of the Board usually
doesn't have the guts to tell me to shut up. I do hear their eyes
rolling over the phone however. But with Jesse on board, that's
probably gonna be different now. I'm very confident that Jesse is
going to very accurately indicate when I am 'full of it'. Which is
quite often in reality.
I guess its a matter of opinion as to whether my opinions can be
considered to represent community interest or not. If there is a
'community' issue over which my stance is unknown to you... i think
I've proven I'm not overly shy in voicing my opinion on something when
asked. So ask.
-jef
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06-24-2008, 10:11 PM
inode0
Fedora Board election results
On Tue, Jun 24, 2008 at 4:37 PM, Paul W. Frields <stickster@gmail.com> wrote:
> What if a woman on the short list for this spot was a Red Hat employee?
I once gave Red Hat some unsolicited advice and that was that they
should hire every Máirín Duffy they can find. I could not have been
more sincere about that. Of course I have no idea who you might be
referring to but if she is anything like Máirín the community would be
well represented by her.
As further evidence of the Fedora election process befuddling my poor
brain I think I just nominated someone for a Red Hat appointed seat.
John
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Fedora Board election results
