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john 05-02-2008 08:21 PM

Consensus seems to be building Hardy Heron slow as molasses
 
Hi all,

I run a dev box where I try out the latest LTSP stuff before adding it
to our school districts LTSP environment.
I recently upgraded from Gutsy to Hardy and I have to say Hardy is
noticeably slower. Bad enough that I would never
dare foist it on the kids in a thin client environment. Google tells
me that other folks have similar
complaints in stand-alone environments. From folks I spoken with It
seems to be an under lying problem with X, possibly due to attempts to
integrate
compiz et al. I am willing to bet that I'll never use really flashy
windows effects with my thin clients so the speed trade off for those
of us
in a LTSP environment are simply a losing proposition.

I'll keep using LTSP because I love the approach but I hope Jim et.
al. continue to work on a stand alone version that doesn't require
us to be tied to any particular distribution.



.02,

John

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Oliver Grawert 05-03-2008 10:51 AM

Consensus seems to be building Hardy Heron slow as molasses
 
hi,
Am Freitag, den 02.05.2008, 13:21 -0700 schrieb john:
> I run a dev box where I try out the latest LTSP stuff before adding it
> to our school districts LTSP environment.
> I recently upgraded from Gutsy to Hardy and I have to say Hardy is
> noticeably slower.
what graphics card is in the server ?

i suspect the compiz autodetection fails for you, can you try disabling
compiz by setting.
/desktop/gnome/applications/window_manager/default to /usr/bin/metacity
in gconf-editor for the user you try with ? does that speed up things on
next login ?

> From folks I spoken with It
> seems to be an under lying problem with X, possibly due to attempts to
> integrate
who were these people, nobody of them showed up in #ltsp ever or filed
any bugs during hardy development ... all i can say here is that if
nobody tests during development release and gives feedback we simply
wont find the bugs.

> I'll keep using LTSP because I love the approach but I hope Jim et.
> al. continue to work on a stand alone version that doesn't require
> us to be tied to any particular distribution.
given that jim didnt touch a line of ltsp code in 3 years i doubt that
will happen. and it would push us back to maintenance hell having to
care for the essential bits like kernel or xorg, note that other distros
started to implement ltsp5 as well (namely the are ports for fedora and
gentoo now and opesuse with going a slightly own way but attached to the
ltsp5 design at least)

so no, we wont go back, if theer are issues in ltsp5 lets fix them
instead of going back to stoneage ;) indeed that needs testers to
communicate to developers *before* a release.

ciao
oli
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Oliver Grawert 05-03-2008 10:57 AM

Consensus seems to be building Hardy Heron slow as molasses
 
hi,
Am Samstag, den 03.05.2008, 12:51 +0200 schrieb Oliver Grawert:

> so no, we wont go back, if theer are issues in ltsp5 lets fix them
> instead of going back to stoneage ;) indeed that needs testers to
> communicate to developers *before* a release.

just to extend that sentence, there is a planned 8.04.1 release [1], we
can do fixes for that if people report them in the bugtracker now ...

ciao
oli

[1] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HardyReleaseSchedule

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"Todd O'Bryan" 05-03-2008 04:12 PM

Consensus seems to be building Hardy Heron slow as molasses
 
My guess is that most of us don't have extra systems to run the beta
releases on and can't afford to take the chance of having a system go
down when there are 6 or 10 or 30 schoolchildren depending on it. If I
could figure out a way to install a beta on my server and then reboot
if there's a show-stopper bug, I'd do it, but my primary job isn't
technical support--I'm a CS teacher using a self-contained lab and the
lab administration happens during the free time I can find when I'm
not planning for the six sections (three different classes, about 150
students) of classes I have to teach.

Don't get me wrong, I'm more than happy to help out by trying
pre-releases, but to make it more likely for that to happen, it has to
be easier to run them on production systems. Maybe a good investment
of time would be to create a simple way for people to create a
dual-boot system that uses the current settings so that, for example,
I could turn on the beta for a class or two to develop bug reports and
then switch back.

BTW, I haven't noticed that Hardy is slow at all on the two
stand-alone machines I've installed it on. I'm hoping to put it on my
system at school early next week. My only complaint is that Firefox 3
doesn't seem to be quite ready for prime-time, yet--the lack of some
of my favorite extensions has made me downgrade to Firefox 2 on both
machines I'm using.

Todd

On Sat, May 3, 2008 at 6:57 AM, Oliver Grawert <ogra@ubuntu.com> wrote:
> hi,
> Am Samstag, den 03.05.2008, 12:51 +0200 schrieb Oliver Grawert:
>
>
> > so no, we wont go back, if theer are issues in ltsp5 lets fix them
> > instead of going back to stoneage ;) indeed that needs testers to
> > communicate to developers *before* a release.
>
> just to extend that sentence, there is a planned 8.04.1 release [1], we
> can do fixes for that if people report them in the bugtracker now ...
>
> ciao
> oli
>
> [1] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HardyReleaseSchedule
>
>
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>
>

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Kai Wollweber 05-03-2008 05:15 PM

Consensus seems to be building Hardy Heron slow as molasses
 
Hello,

i am a long term LSTP user but new to ubuntu and to this list. Hopefully we
got the right decision to change to edubunt's LTSP 5. Thanks in advance to
the people affiliating LTSP to a distribution. You are doing a great job!

On Saturday 03 May 2008 18:12:06 Todd O'Bryan wrote:
> My guess is that most of us don't have extra systems to run the beta
> releases on and can't afford to take the chance of having a system go
> down when there are 6 or 10 or 30 schoolchildren depending on it.

Irrespective of the possibility to make beta tests, we made the experience
that even small system changes can affect the production use - say the
classroom users.

Therefore we decided to have redundant systems. As a school with 80 terminals
for more than 800 students it is a must to have redundancy. Otherwise no
changes can be made outside periods of holidays.

Actually we use three secondary servers for xdm plus one of two servers as
main server with the LTSP 4.2. for pxe, tftpboot, nfs, nis, cups and other
services. The second main server usually is in standby in case of hardware
damage of the first one. If one of the secondary servers failes, the other
two will take over the sessions.

The second main server and one of the three secondary servers actually are
used to setup the LTSP 5 system. Main issues for changing from LTSP 4.2 to
LTSP 5 are use of usb sticks and sound on the terminals.

Experiments with Opensuse and kiwi-ltsp were not successful. We hope that
edubuntu 8.04 now is the best choice.

We had some problems with the installation on amd64 server with i386 clients:
The installation of the packet ltsp-client-core failed because the
file /etc/ltsp_chroot is missed. Finally we got the system running.

But we are not sufficient with the clients yet. There is still some work of
finetuning to do before we can switch over from testing to production.

One problem is performance. Login is somewhat slow but acceptable. The windows
on the client behave different: terminal windows react quickly, but other
windows, e.g. from open office or firefox are slow. I did not observe this on
LTSP 4.2. Could it be an effect of ssh on clients with small cpus?

--
Kai Wollweber
Integrierte Gesamtschule
Eckernförde

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Jonathan Carter 05-04-2008 11:14 AM

Consensus seems to be building Hardy Heron slow as molasses
 
Hi Kai

Kai Wollweber wrote:
> One problem is performance. Login is somewhat slow but acceptable. The windows
> on the client behave different: terminal windows react quickly, but other
> windows, e.g. from open office or firefox are slow. I did not observe this on
> LTSP 4.2. Could it be an effect of ssh on clients with small cpus?

The reason why LTSP 5 is slower than LTSP 4.2 by default is the enhanced
security. All the sessions that run on all the clients are encrypted
over the network, mostly so that people won't listen in on your
connection if they have access to your physical network.

You can disable the encryption, which will give you just about the same
performance as in LTSP 4.2 (although at a security trade-off), by adding
the following to the default section in your lts.conf:

DIRECTX=true

HTH

-Jonathan


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Oliver Grawert 05-04-2008 11:29 AM

Consensus seems to be building Hardy Heron slow as molasses
 
hi,
Am Sonntag, den 04.05.2008, 13:14 +0200 schrieb Jonathan Carter:

> DIRECTX=true
that would be LDM_DIRECTX=True
;)

but i really suspect a compiz issue, since most people report its
working fine but some seem to have issues ...

it would be nice to know what kind of graphics cards are in the slower
servers (and if there are any binary drivers installed in case of cards
that use these) the ~/.xsession-errors file of a user for whom its slow
would also intresting for seeing if compiz is at fault.

(and indeed a proper bugreport with this info under:
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ltsp/+filebug
would help a lot ;) )

ciao
oli
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Kai Wollweber 05-04-2008 06:24 PM

Consensus seems to be building Hardy Heron slow as molasses
 
Hi Oliver,

> but i really suspect a compiz issue, since most people report its
> working fine but some seem to have issues ...

> it would be nice to know what kind of graphics cards are in the slower
> servers (and if there are any binary drivers installed in case of cards
> that use these) the ~/.xsession-errors file of a user for whom its slow
> would also intresting for seeing if compiz is at fault.


I cannot understand, how the video card on the server can affect the
performance of the client and I am not sure, if this is the relevant
information:

.xsession-errors (grep compiz):

/usr/bin/compiz.real (core) - Fatal: No GLXFBConfig for default depth, this
isn't going to work.
/usr/bin/compiz.real (core) - Error: Failed to manage screen: 0
/usr/bin/compiz.real (core) - Fatal: No manageable screens found on
display :0.0


The Server is a Supermicro with video on board, hwinfo:

15: PCI 405.0: 0300 VGA compatible controller (VGA)
[Created at pci.296]
UDI: /org/freedesktop/Hal/devices/pci_1002_4752
Unique ID: wJko.0VXTvG3D__9
Parent ID: 6NW+.k8q0T1+16w3
SysFS ID: /devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:1e.0/0000:04:05.0
SysFS BusID: 0000:04:05.0
Hardware Class: graphics card
Model: "Super Micro Mach64 GR"
Vendor: pci 0x1002 "ATI Technologies Inc"
Device: pci 0x4752 "Mach64 GR"
SubVendor: pci 0x15d9 "Super Micro Computer Inc"
SubDevice: pci 0x7180
Revision: 0x27
Memory Range: 0xfd000000-0xfdffffff (rw,non-prefetchable)
I/O Ports: 0xc800-0xc8ff (rw)
Memory Range: 0xfeafe000-0xfeafefff (rw,non-prefetchable)
Memory Range: 0xfca00000-0xfca1ffff (ro,prefetchable,disabled)
IRQ: 11 (no events)
I/O Ports: 0x3c0-0x3df (rw)
Module Alias: "pci:v00001002d00004752sv000015D9sd00007180bc03sc0 0i00"
Driver Info #0:
XFree86 v4 Server Module: ati
XF86Config Entry: Option "XaaNoPixmapCache" "on"
Config Status: cfg=new, avail=yes, need=no, active=unknown
Attached to: #22 (PCI bridge)


TIA
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Integrierte Gesamtschule
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"Kemp, Levi" 05-15-2008 03:12 PM

Consensus seems to be building Hardy Heron slow as molasses
 
Title: RE: Consensus seems to be building Hardy Heron slow as molasses







Oliver,



*I tried to do the LDM_DIRECTX=True in my lts.conf file but while watching a client load I see that it gives me a syntax error in line 1. It's the only line in my lts.conf file as everything thing else is working fine. I've tried it with LDM_DIRECTX = True as well. Is it just because it's in the first line, or the only line?



Levi





-----Original Message-----

From: edubuntu-users-bounces@lists.ubuntu.com on behalf of Oliver Grawert

Sent: Sun 5/4/2008 6:29 AM

To: edubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com

Subject: Re: Consensus seems to be building Hardy Heron slow as molasses



hi,

Am Sonntag, den 04.05.2008, 13:14 +0200 schrieb Jonathan Carter:



>*** DIRECTX=true

that would be LDM_DIRECTX=True

;)



but i really suspect a compiz issue, since most people report its

working fine but some seem to have issues ...



it would be nice to know what kind of graphics cards are in the slower

servers (and if there are any binary drivers installed in case of cards

that use these) the ~/.xsession-errors file of a user for whom its slow

would also intresting for seeing if compiz is at fault.



(and indeed a proper bugreport with this info under:

https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ltsp/+filebug

would help a lot ;) )



ciao

******* oli








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francois 05-15-2008 03:32 PM

Consensus seems to be building Hardy Heron slow as molasses
 
Le jeudi 15 mai 2008 ā 10:12 -0500, Kemp, Levi a écrit :
>
> I tried to do the LDM_DIRECTX=True in my lts.conf file but while
> watching a client load I see that it gives me a syntax error in line
> 1. It's the only line in my lts.conf file as everything thing else is
> working fine. I've tried it with LDM_DIRECTX = True as well. Is it
> just because it's in the first line, or the only line?

Peharps it its waiting for :

[Default]
LDM_DIRECTX = True

Franįois


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