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Old 09-07-2012, 03:49 PM
Theo Schmidt
 
Default Desktop choice/performance

John Hupp wrote:
...
But I didn't see anything there that gave any indication about client
performance when comparing LTSP-PNP vs. the current version of LTSP5 in
12.04. I am especially interested in thin (very thin) client performance.


I gave up trying to administrate LTSP some years ago, so now somebody
does it for us, and it's not a school, but an office with three elderly
thin clients on a moderately new server. We're traditional KDE3 users
and while we have KDE4 installed as well as Gnome2 and two lightweight
desktops, the performance and handling of KDE4 sucked and the
lightweight Desktops as well as Gnome2 didn't do what we wanted, but our
supporter was able to reinstall KDE3.5, which still does exactly what we
want except that it is confusing to switch between KDE3 and 4 programs
as well as GTK and other programs, as the design changes. We have both
LTSP4 and LTSP5 installed and can use either. The former is much faster
to boot and uses less resources, but has no sound.


With regard to Unity, Gnome3, and other new-fangled stuff, I expect that
pupils catch on faster than the teachers!


Cheers, Theo Schmidt


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Old 09-10-2012, 09:37 AM
Matt Johnson
 
Default Desktop choice/performance

Thanks all for the replies. I've started to experiment with the environments mentioned to*evaluate*the various offers.
Much obliged.*--*
Matt

From: "Rippl, Steve" <rippls@woodlandschools.org>
To: Matt Johnson <johnsonmlw@yahoo.com>
Cc: "edubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com" <edubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com>
Sent: Friday, 7 September 2012, 16:33
Subject: Re: Desktop choice/performance

We experimented with the Lubuntu/LXDE desktop under 12.04 LTSP
and it was great in terms if it's small resource requirements, however the Xubuntu/XFCE proved more useful to use because of it's greater configurability, we lock down the desktop to a considerable degree for the students and XFCE lets us do that while still having reasonable low hardware requirements.




On Fri, Sep 7, 2012 at 1:20 AM, Matt Johnson <johnsonmlw@yahoo.com> wrote:

We are running LTSP on Ubuntu 10.04 across 64 workstations distributed across 8 classrooms and in one computer suite in a school in Hertfordshire, UK.




We are beginning to plan for our move to a fresh install of Edubuntu 12.04. I note that the Edubuntu screenshots page shows Unity, which we are keen to deploy, and then the more traditional desktop 'fallback' which is says is more suited to LTSP environments. This implies a performance hit for running Unity (2d?) in LTSP environments.




What are folks' experiences of running Unity (2d?) versus the fallback mode in an LTSP deployment? Have people experienced a performance hit from moving from Gnome 2 on 10.04 to Unity 2d on 12.04?*Realistically, should we expect to be running fallback mode to achieve a*similar*level of performance to our current install?




Thanks in advance.



--*

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Old 09-22-2012, 05:15 AM
David Groos
 
Default Desktop choice/performance

Wow--thanks Jack for all the data and general evaluation.* I found it quite interesting and answered some wonderings I'd had but not asked about different ubuntu implementations...
David G


On Fri, Sep 7, 2012 at 9:54 AM, Jack ODonnell <jodonnell@worldcomputerexchange.org> wrote:

World Computer Exchange installs "edubuntu-desktop" on stand-alone

computers that we send to classrooms in developing countries. *We do no

use LTSP.



In considering the upgrade to 12.04 from 10.04 as our standard OS, we

were concerned about how this would impact performance and the minimum

specs on our refurbished computers



We ran a comparison tests of performance with different desktops. *I

don't pretend that the measures are scientifically accurate but they

showed general trend that helped us decide



We will be using 12.04 with the LXDE desktop



See attached

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Content Project Manager

Regional Manager for Latin America

773 316 2944



http://www.WorldComputerExchange.org *Technology + Education = Potential

http://www.WorldComputerExchange.org/Chicago-il *Chicago Chapter













On Fri, 2012-09-07 at 01:20 -0700, Matt Johnson wrote:

> We are running LTSP on Ubuntu 10.04 across 64 workstations distributed across 8 classrooms and in one computer suite in a school in Hertfordshire, UK.

>

> We are beginning to plan for our move to a fresh install of Edubuntu 12.04. I note that the Edubuntu screenshots page shows Unity, which we are keen to deploy, and then the more traditional desktop 'fallback' which is says is more suited to LTSP environments. This implies a performance hit for running Unity (2d?) in LTSP environments.


>

> What are folks' experiences of running Unity (2d?) versus the fallback mode in an LTSP deployment? Have people experienced a performance hit from moving from Gnome 2 on 10.04 to Unity 2d on 12.04? Realistically, should we expect to be running fallback mode to achieve a similar level of performance to our current install?


>

> Thanks in advance.

>

> --

> Matt

>


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Old 09-28-2012, 01:09 AM
David Groos
 
Default Desktop choice/performance

OK... 8:00 at night at school with my son, setting up classroom infrastructure--haven't done this in a while...* I've got some questions/doubts about install,* Here's what I did (am going for 2-nic, dnsmasq install...

sudo -i
add-apt-repository --yes ppa:ts.sch.gr
apt-get update
apt-get --yes install dnsmasq ltsp-server-standalone ltsp-client ldm-ubuntu-theme
Question: it asks about config of nbd--not sure what all it means.* What are the ramifications of yes disconnect all NBD devices on "stop" or no?* While it says traditional is Yes, since No was highlighted (thinking it may be recommended--sounds safer? I... OK I chose No.* (still as

ltsp-config dnsmasqworked... then I quickly unplugged the cable because it said, "*Restarting DNS forwarder and DHCP server dnsmasq".* Three years ago I took down our school network with a port broadcasting on the building (external) network--I can't afford to have a bad rep with the tech dept here... To investigate I went to /etc/network/interfaces and only saw


auto lo
iface lo inet loopback

Huh?
Stymied...
I'd appreciate it if you would add that part about doing a 2 nic setup
Also, what about that "Disconnect all NBD devices..." choice I made?* Might be good to explain a bit of that on the pnp page.


Thanks again,
David


On Fri, Sep 7, 2012 at 7:54 AM, Alkis Georgopoulos <alkisg@gmail.com> wrote:

Στις 07/09/2012 03:44 μμ, ο/η David Groos *γραψε:

> I'm hoping to continue soon with transitioning from 10.04 to 12.04

> also. *I'm using 10.04 fat clients and am happy. *I am working to use

> ltsp-pnp and am wondering how/if that works with 2 NIC's since the

> recommended/described setup is with 1 NIC running a DNS. *I'm working in

> a windows network and am required to make my Ubuntu labs on an isolated

> sub-net. *Any recommendations on this aspect?





ltsp-pnp doesn't have a problem with how many NICs you have or how you

have them connected;

it's just the wiki page that assumes a single NIC setup.



https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ltsp-pnp



You can use either dnsmasq or isc-dhcp-server, whichever one you like.

If you use dnsmasq, just configure the internal IP of the server to

192.168.67.1



If you prefer to use isc-dhcp, avoid the dnsmasq-specific things in the

wiki, like `ltsp-config dnsmasq`, IPAPPEND 3 etc.





If you don't manage to configure your 2-nic setup, tell me to add a

section in the wiki for that case. If you do, add it yourself.



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Old 09-28-2012, 03:11 AM
Alkis Georgopoulos
 
Default Desktop choice/performance

Στις 28/09/2012 04:09 πμ, ο/η David Groos *γραψε:
> apt-get --yes install dnsmasq ltsp-server-standalone ltsp-client ldm-ubuntu-theme
>
> Question: it asks about config of nbd--not sure what all it means. What
> are the ramifications of yes disconnect all NBD devices on "stop" or
> no? While it says traditional is Yes, since No was highlighted
> (thinking it may be recommended--sounds safer? I... OK I chose No.

Whatever you select there doesn't make any difference for LTSP.
It's for clients declared in /etc/nbd-client, and LTSP doesn't use that
file.

> (still as
> * ltsp-config dnsmasq
>
> worked... then I quickly unplugged the cable because it said,
> "*Restarting DNS forwarder and DHCP server dnsmasq". Three years ago I
> took down our school network with a port broadcasting on the building
> (external) network--I can't afford to have a bad rep with the tech dept
> here...

I'm not sure what you mean there or how it was technically achieved.
But when running `ltsp-config dnsmasq`, you should have had already
configured your server IP addresses, so that it would automatically
create a proper /etc/dnsmasq.d/ltsp-server-dnsmasq.conf for you:

"It's recommended that you setup your network first. A static IP is
suggested but not required for single NIC setups. If you're using a dual
NIC setup, configure the internal NIC to 192.168.67.1. "

To investigate I went to /etc/network/interfaces and only saw
>
> auto lo
> iface lo inet loopback
>
> Huh?
> Stymied...
> I'd appreciate it if you would add that part about doing a 2 nic setup
> Also, what about that "Disconnect all NBD devices..." choice I made?
> Might be good to explain a bit of that on the pnp page.
>


The "how to assign a static IP address" part isn't ltsp-pnp specific, so
it doesn't belong in that wiki page.
You're correct though in that this information is missing from the
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP wiki (although it isn't
strictly LTSP-specific either).

So... let's start an "an answer for a wiki page" initiative: I'll be
answering some questions like this one in the mailing list, and people
that receive the answers should then create nice wiki pages for others
to get helped as well!

So if you do write an
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/StaticIP wiki page about
it, I'll put a link to it from the ltsp-pnp wiki page.

There are 2 methods to configure a static IP for your server. One, with
network manager, and second, from /etc/network/interfaces.
For "headless" servers the second method is preferred, but for schools
where the teachers are working on the server I suggest going with the
first one, so that the teachers can easily see the network properties
from the gnome applet (connection speed, up/down status...)

Network manager method:
Read this:
http://www.liberiangeek.net/2010/03/how-to-configure-a-static-ip-address-in-ubuntu/
Copy or create some similar pictures for the UbuntuLTSP wiki page.
Some additional remarks:
* The "[v] Make connection available for all users" setting should be
checked, otherwise the connection only starts after the teacher logs in
on the server.
* The
http://www.liberiangeek.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/static_ip_mav_23.png
picture applies for single NIC installations.
* For dual NIC installations, the internal NIC should have no DNS
server entries, and for gateway it should have 0.0.0.0. Again the "[v]
Make connection available for all users" setting should be checked.


/etc/network/interfaces method:
Don't read what's written in the
www.liberiangeek.net/2010/03/how-to-configure-a-static-ip-address-in-ubuntu/
page, don't disable network manager like it suggests etc.

For single NIC cases, put something like this in /etc/network/interfaces:
iface eth0 inet static
address 192.168.3.3
netmask 255.255.255.0
gateway 192.168.3.1
dns-search example.com
dns-nameservers 192.168.3.45 192.168.8.10


For dual nic cases, the internal NIC entry should be like this:
iface eth1 inet static
address 192.168.67.1
netmask 255.255.255.0


That's all, if you configure your network _before_ following the
ltsp-pnp installation steps, then `ltsp-config dnsmasq` will create an
appropriate /etc/dnsmasq.d/ltsp-server-dnsmasq.conf for you.
If you do it afterwards, just re-run:
ltsp-config dnsmasq --overwrite

Warning: the generated /etc/dnsmasq.d/ltsp-server-dnsmasq.conf has
proxy-dhcp mode enabled for the external NIC. So, clients in your
"external" network will be able to be netbooted as ltsp clients.
If you don't want that, you should remove the respective
dhcp-range=192.168.3.0,proxy
line from that file.


Cheers, let's see if the "an answer for a wiki page" initiative can work!

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Old 09-28-2012, 04:35 PM
David Groos
 
Default Desktop choice/performance

Hi Alkis,

I can't wait to make this work today after school!*

For, "answer to wiki initiative, I think you mean having "page stewards" (bottom of ltsp-pnp page)?* It is a controversial approach to wikis, but then maybe this kind of info shouldn't be on a wiki but on some authoritative document site with page stewards taking responsibility for the page as you have for this ltsp-pnp page.* To build on this idea, how about having a page listing page/steward information for the whole wiki, or better for different communities on the wiki (such as community/UbuntuLTSP/)?* This recognizes the person and makes public their commitment--sort of like the commitment people make to be on the Ubuntu or Edubuntu teams?* Of course, if I misunderstood your, "answer to wiki initiative" statement, well, I'll quietly step down from soap box...


Thanks,
David

On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 10:11 PM, Alkis Georgopoulos <alkisg@gmail.com> wrote:

Στις 28/09/2012 04:09 πμ, ο/η David Groos *γραψε:

> * * apt-get --yes install dnsmasq ltsp-server-standalone ltsp-client ldm-ubuntu-theme

>

> Question: it asks about config of nbd--not sure what all it means. *What

> are the ramifications of yes disconnect all NBD devices on "stop" or

> no? *While it says traditional is Yes, since No was highlighted

> (thinking it may be recommended--sounds safer? I... OK I chose No.



Whatever you select there doesn't make any difference for LTSP.

It's for clients declared in /etc/nbd-client, and LTSP doesn't use that

file.



> (still as

> * * *ltsp-config dnsmasq

>

> worked... then I quickly unplugged the cable because it said,

> "*Restarting DNS forwarder and DHCP server dnsmasq". *Three years ago I

> took down our school network with a port broadcasting on the building

> (external) network--I can't afford to have a bad rep with the tech dept

> here...



I'm not sure what you mean there or how it was technically achieved.

But when running `ltsp-config dnsmasq`, you should have had already

configured your server IP addresses, so that it would automatically

create a proper /etc/dnsmasq.d/ltsp-server-dnsmasq.conf for you:



"It's recommended that you setup your network first. A static IP is

suggested but not required for single NIC setups. If you're using a dual

NIC setup, configure the internal NIC to 192.168.67.1. "



*To investigate I went to /etc/network/interfaces and only saw

>

> auto lo

> iface lo inet loopback

>

> Huh?

> Stymied...

> I'd appreciate it if you would add that part about doing a 2 nic setup

> Also, what about that "Disconnect all NBD devices..." choice I made?

> Might be good to explain a bit of that on the pnp page.

>





The "how to assign a static IP address" part isn't ltsp-pnp specific, so

it doesn't belong in that wiki page.

You're correct though in that this information is missing from the

https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP wiki (although it isn't

strictly LTSP-specific either).



So... let's start an "an answer for a wiki page" initiative: I'll be

answering some questions like this one in the mailing list, and people

that receive the answers should then create nice wiki pages for others

to get helped as well!



So if you do write an

https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/StaticIP wiki page about

it, I'll put a link to it from the ltsp-pnp wiki page.



There are 2 methods to configure a static IP for your server. One, with

network manager, and second, from /etc/network/interfaces.

For "headless" servers the second method is preferred, but for schools

where the teachers are working on the server I suggest going with the

first one, so that the teachers can easily see the network properties

from the gnome applet (connection speed, up/down status...)



Network manager method:

Read this:

http://www.liberiangeek.net/2010/03/how-to-configure-a-static-ip-address-in-ubuntu/

Copy or create some similar pictures for the UbuntuLTSP wiki page.

Some additional remarks:

** The "[v] Make connection available for all users" setting should be

checked, otherwise the connection only starts after the teacher logs in

on the server.

** The

http://www.liberiangeek.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/static_ip_mav_23.png

picture applies for single NIC installations.

** For dual NIC installations, the internal NIC should have no DNS

server entries, and for gateway it should have 0.0.0.0. Again the "[v]

Make connection available for all users" setting should be checked.





/etc/network/interfaces method:

Don't read what's written in the

www.liberiangeek.net/2010/03/how-to-configure-a-static-ip-address-in-ubuntu/

page, don't disable network manager like it suggests etc.



For single NIC cases, put something like this in /etc/network/interfaces:

iface eth0 inet static

* * address 192.168.3.3

* * netmask 255.255.255.0

* * gateway 192.168.3.1

* * dns-search example.com

* * dns-nameservers 192.168.3.45 192.168.8.10





For dual nic cases, the internal NIC entry should be like this:

iface eth1 inet static

* * address 192.168.67.1

* * netmask 255.255.255.0





That's all, if you configure your network _before_ following the

ltsp-pnp installation steps, then `ltsp-config dnsmasq` will create an

appropriate /etc/dnsmasq.d/ltsp-server-dnsmasq.conf for you.

If you do it afterwards, just re-run:

ltsp-config dnsmasq --overwrite



Warning: the generated /etc/dnsmasq.d/ltsp-server-dnsmasq.conf has

proxy-dhcp mode enabled for the external NIC. So, clients in your

"external" network will be able to be netbooted as ltsp clients.

If you don't want that, you should remove the respective

dhcp-range=192.168.3.0,proxy

line from that file.





Cheers, let's see if the "an answer for a wiki page" initiative can work!



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Old 09-28-2012, 04:47 PM
Alkis Georgopoulos
 
Default Desktop choice/performance

Στις 28/09/2012 07:35 μμ, ο/η David Groos *γραψε:
> For, "answer to wiki initiative, I think you mean having "page stewards"
> ...


Hi David,

no, what I meant is that sometimes we end up writing the same answers in
mailing lists or forums over and over again, and I think that nice wiki
pages should be written about them instead.
It's not related to what I wrote to the bottom of the ltsp-pnp page.

E.g. I bet the "how to set up a static IP" question has been answered
hundreds of times (I'm not talking just about this mailing list), and
people answered quickly instead of writing a proper wiki page and link
to it.

We all know that software developers or experts give more time
developing and much less time documenting. So my idea was that when a
person asks something that deserves a wiki page, someone of the experts
may give a correct but quick answer, and the person receiving it would
then write a wiki page about it, with screenshots if needed etc etc.

That would motivate developers to answer more frequently, because then a
more complete version of their answer would be written in a wiki page,
and they could link to it when the same question arises in the future,
and it would also benefit users because they'd get technically correct
answers instead of workarounds usually found in forums while googling.

It's not related to who maintains the page; it's just about writing
them; we have a big lack of wiki editors.

I don't know if that approach would work, but we can try it.

Cheers,
Alkis

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Old 09-28-2012, 08:08 PM
Matthew Faulconer
 
Default Desktop choice/performance

I think the "answer for a wiki page" concept is brilliant. Newbies like myself should be encourage to both check the wiki for the answer and promise to write up their answer on the wiki properly if someone can help them through it. And, Alkis, I like your point that there is substantial incentive to let people know when they are asking the question that they promise to write the wiki after because it then means that an expert is more willing to take their time providing a quick answer if they know the other person is going to "pay that back" by improving the community documentation on this very point.

It would be a totally on your honor type system, but I think most people are honorable enough to make an effort to try to write up what they learned after they had made the promise to do so.


On Fri, Sep 28, 2012 at 10:47 AM, Alkis Georgopoulos <alkisg@gmail.com> wrote:

Στις 28/09/2012 07:35 μμ, ο/η David Groos *γραψε:

> For, "answer to wiki initiative, I think you mean having "page stewards"

> ...





Hi David,



no, what I meant is that sometimes we end up writing the same answers in

mailing lists or forums over and over again, and I think that nice wiki

pages should be written about them instead.

It's not related to what I wrote to the bottom of the ltsp-pnp page.



E.g. I bet the "how to set up a static IP" question has been answered

hundreds of times (I'm not talking just about this mailing list), and

people answered quickly instead of writing a proper wiki page and link

to it.



We all know that software developers or experts give more time

developing and much less time documenting. So my idea was that when a

person asks something that deserves a wiki page, someone of the experts

may give a correct but quick answer, and the person receiving it would

then write a wiki page about it, with screenshots if needed etc etc.



That would motivate developers to answer more frequently, because then a

more complete version of their answer would be written in a wiki page,

and they could link to it when the same question arises in the future,

and it would also benefit users because they'd get technically correct

answers instead of workarounds usually found in forums while googling.



It's not related to who maintains the page; it's just about writing

them; we have a big lack of wiki editors.



I don't know if that approach would work, but we can try it.



Cheers,

Alkis



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Old 10-01-2012, 09:43 PM
David Groos
 
Default Desktop choice/performance

I agree.* There needs to be some way to get workload off the key contributors--the developers and those who really have a huge knowledge base--and move it on to those of use who know something, maybe a lot of somethings, but do not have the deep/reliable knowledge base required to create/improve software or to help others troubleshoot.* I like your 'answer for a wiki' initiative. Let's give it a try.* (I hadn't yet read your whole page at the moment of making my last response and thus didn't know the reference for your initiative.)


Personally, I make tons of notes on what I do and if they seem reliable or applicable to others besides myself I post them on my tech/teaching research blog, but often I don't think they are reliable enough.* So, I'm going to make the page you (Alkis) created the link for and let's see how that goes.* I'll try to make it clear, not TOO wordy and you (Alkis) please help by checking for reliability.* Gonna get started now.* Again, thanks for all your effort/help.


David G

On Fri, Sep 28, 2012 at 3:08 PM, Matthew Faulconer <matthew.faulconer@gmail.com> wrote:

I think the "answer for a wiki page" concept is brilliant. Newbies like myself should be encourage to both check the wiki for the answer and promise to write up their answer on the wiki properly if someone can help them through it. And, Alkis, I like your point that there is substantial incentive to let people know when they are asking the question that they promise to write the wiki after because it then means that an expert is more willing to take their time providing a quick answer if they know the other person is going to "pay that back" by improving the community documentation on this very point.


It would be a totally on your honor type system, but I think most people are honorable enough to make an effort to try to write up what they learned after they had made the promise to do so.



On Fri, Sep 28, 2012 at 10:47 AM, Alkis Georgopoulos <alkisg@gmail.com> wrote:


Στις 28/09/2012 07:35 μμ, ο/η David Groos *γραψε:

> For, "answer to wiki initiative, I think you mean having "page stewards"

> ...





Hi David,



no, what I meant is that sometimes we end up writing the same answers in

mailing lists or forums over and over again, and I think that nice wiki

pages should be written about them instead.

It's not related to what I wrote to the bottom of the ltsp-pnp page.



E.g. I bet the "how to set up a static IP" question has been answered

hundreds of times (I'm not talking just about this mailing list), and

people answered quickly instead of writing a proper wiki page and link

to it.



We all know that software developers or experts give more time

developing and much less time documenting. So my idea was that when a

person asks something that deserves a wiki page, someone of the experts

may give a correct but quick answer, and the person receiving it would

then write a wiki page about it, with screenshots if needed etc etc.



That would motivate developers to answer more frequently, because then a

more complete version of their answer would be written in a wiki page,

and they could link to it when the same question arises in the future,

and it would also benefit users because they'd get technically correct

answers instead of workarounds usually found in forums while googling.



It's not related to who maintains the page; it's just about writing

them; we have a big lack of wiki editors.



I don't know if that approach would work, but we can try it.



Cheers,

Alkis



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