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Old 04-05-2008, 09:39 AM
 
Default 2nd Attempt at Setting Up Lab

hi all,

i bought a server to convert a bunch of pii 200mhz machines into edubuntu terminals at my kid's school. however, i didn't quite understand the complexity of using intel based terminals and an amd64 dual core server. long story short - they wouldn't connect. this is likely due to my lack of wizardry, however, i'm not trying to be a dual architecture, work through incompatibilities wizard, i'm trying to set up a lab that kids will find useful.

so, it is on to plan b. i want to swap out the main board on the server and go with an intel cpu. are there any "gotchas" i can avoid by picking the right motherboard and cpu? do intel 64 bit cpus pose a problem?

thanks for sharing your insight and experience.

oe1




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Old 04-05-2008, 11:53 AM
John Ingleby
 
Default 2nd Attempt at Setting Up Lab

On Sat, 2008-04-05 at 12:00 +0100,
edubuntu-users-request@lists.ubuntu.com wrote:

> Message: 3
> Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2008 02:39:17 -0700 (PDT)
> From: <operationsengineer1@yahoo.com>
> Subject: 2nd Attempt at Setting Up Lab
> To: EDUBUNTU MAILING LIST <edubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com>
> Message-ID: <776946.38146.qm@web33302.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> hi all,
>
> i bought a server to convert a bunch of pii 200mhz machines into
> edubuntu terminals at my kid's school. however, i didn't quite
> understand the complexity of using intel based terminals and an amd64
> dual core server. long story short - they wouldn't connect. this is
> likely due to my lack of wizardry, however, i'm not trying to be a
> dual architecture, work through incompatibilities wizard, i'm trying
> to set up a lab that kids will find useful.
>
> so, it is on to plan b. i want to swap out the main board on the
> server and go with an intel cpu. are there any "gotchas" i can avoid
> by picking the right motherboard and cpu? do intel 64 bit cpus pose a
> problem?
>
> thanks for sharing your insight and experience.

Hi Oel,

Did you get Edubuntu server running on the amd64 server? Even if your
Edubuntu server installed OK, it's very likely your PII machines will
need some attention to get them to connect.

In any case, it's worth studying the Edubuntu Handbook, particularly the
section on LTSP thin client hardware requirements and methods of
connection:

http://doc.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/edubuntu/handbook/C/server-hw.html

Hope this helps,

John
****



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Old 04-05-2008, 04:16 PM
Sameer Verma
 
Default 2nd Attempt at Setting Up Lab

operationsengineer1@yahoo.com wrote:
> hi all,
>
> i bought a server to convert a bunch of pii 200mhz machines into edubuntu terminals at my kid's school. however, i didn't quite understand the complexity of using intel based terminals and an amd64 dual core server. long story short - they wouldn't connect. this is likely due to my lack of wizardry, however, i'm not trying to be a dual architecture, work through incompatibilities wizard, i'm trying to set up a lab that kids will find useful.
>
> so, it is on to plan b. i want to swap out the main board on the server and go with an intel cpu. are there any "gotchas" i can avoid by picking the right motherboard and cpu? do intel 64 bit cpus pose a problem?
>
> thanks for sharing your insight and experience.
>
> oe1
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________ __________________________________
> You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost.
> http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com
>
>
If your server is AMD64 and your clients are 32 bit, you can still use
the setup to build ltsp images (ltps-build-client) for the 32 bit client
machines. In fact, I believe there's a page in the wiki on building
PowerPC clients running off aa64 bit server...I'm a bit tight on time,
so I cannot search right now...maybe someone else can point to it?

Also make sure your PII machines can PXEboot or are setup for etherboot.

Sameer

--
Dr. Sameer Verma, Ph.D.
Associate Professor of Information Systems
San Francisco State University
San Francisco CA 94132 USA
http://verma.sfsu.edu/
http://opensource.sfsu.edu/


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Old 04-05-2008, 10:42 PM
 
Default 2nd Attempt at Setting Up Lab

operationsengineer1@yahoo.com wrote:
> hi all,
>
> i bought a server to convert a bunch of pii 200mhz machines into edubuntu terminals at my kid's school. however, i didn't quite understand the complexity of using intel based terminals and an amd64 dual core server. long story short - they wouldn't connect. this is likely due to my lack of wizardry, however, i'm not trying to be a dual architecture, work through incompatibilities wizard, i'm trying to set up a lab that kids will find useful.
>
> so, it is on to plan b. i want to swap out the main board on the server and go with an intel cpu. are there any "gotchas" i can avoid by picking the right motherboard and cpu? do intel 64 bit cpus pose a problem?
>
> thanks for sharing your insight and experience.
>
> oe1
> __________________________________________________ __________________________________
> You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost.
> http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com
>
>
If your server is AMD64 and your clients are 32 bit, you can still use
the setup to build ltsp images (ltps-build-client) for the 32 bit client
machines. In fact, I believe there's a page in the wiki on building
PowerPC clients running off aa64 bit server...I'm a bit tight on time,
so I cannot search right now...maybe someone else can point to it?

Also make sure your PII machines can PXEboot or are setup for etherboot.

Sameer

---------------------

hi Sameer and John, thanks for responding. i set up the server with 7.10 just fine. i also set it up to deal with win32 clients (my exact steps were previously posted to this mailing list), but there was still a failure to connect - i had posted the exact failure on this mailing list a while back. someone on this forum said they tried it on 7.10 and it didn't work for them, either. they did get it to work on 7.04. i tried to install 7.04 on the server and it wouldn't install. so the one that works won't install on the server and the one that doesn't installs just fine. ;-)

i might wait and see if i can get 8.04 edubuntu up and running before buying the new intel mainboard and cpu, but i'm to the point i just want something to work.

here is one of the threads dealing with my previous attempts...

http://www.nabble.com/LTSP---Server-AMD64,-Thin-Clients-i386-td15533884.html








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Old 04-06-2008, 11:21 AM
Gavin McCullagh
 
Default 2nd Attempt at Setting Up Lab

Hi,

On Sat, 05 Apr 2008, operationsengineer1@yahoo.com wrote:

> i bought a server to convert a bunch of pii 200mhz machines into edubuntu
> terminals at my kid's school. however, i didn't quite understand the
> complexity of using intel based terminals and an amd64 dual core server.
> long story short - they wouldn't connect. this is likely due to my lack
> of wizardry,

You don't explaing what the problem is, so we can only presume it's an
issue with the architecture mix. If you want to give us some errors from
the thin client, we can give you better advice.

> however, i'm not trying to be a dual architecture, work
> through incompatibilities wizard, i'm trying to set up a lab that kids
> will find useful.

There are two options for getting the dual arch working:

1. Reinstall the server with the i386 version. This is easy and involves
no wizardry.

2. Get your thin clients working as i386 with the server running amd64.
First, on the command line run:
sudo ltsp-build-client --arch i386
Then edit
/etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf
and replace "amd64" with "i386". Then restart dhcp
sudo /etc/init.d/dhcp3-server restart
Reboot thin client.

I don't think there are any more steps in [2], but this is untested so let
us know if that doesn't work (and what errors you see) and we'll figure it
out.

Of [1] and [2] there are advantages in both. Depending on how many thin
clients you plan to have, [1] may well be the simpler approach and may suit
you better. With [2] the server will run the 64-bit version of firefox and
it will be difficult to get FLASH (which is 32-bit) working. If you go
with [1], this should just work.

> so, it is on to plan b. i want to swap out the main board on the server
> and go with an intel cpu. are there any "gotchas" i can avoid by picking
> the right motherboard and cpu? do intel 64 bit cpus pose a problem?

Abort plan b! You _definitely_ don't need to change the cpu or motherboard.
amd64 machines can run the i386 version of edubuntu just fine.

Let us know how you get on,

Gavin


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Old 04-07-2008, 06:30 AM
 
Default 2nd Attempt at Setting Up Lab

Hi Gavin,

the following link, also posted in my previous reply, contains exactly what i did and the exact erros i received.

http://www.nabble.com/LTSP---Server-AMD64,-Thin-Clients-i386-td15533884.html

from the above link. the errors were as follows:

begin --->
Begin: Running /scripts/init-bottom ...
Done.
[ 80.598019] request_module runaway loop modprobe bmfmt-46k
[ 80.598122] request_module runaway loop modprobe bmfmt-46k
[ 80.598606] request_module runaway loop modprobe bmfmt-46k
[ 80.599175] request_module runaway loop modprobe bmfmt-46k
_ <- this is a blinking cursor, this arrow and text no shown on actual screen.
<--- end

again, from the link i posted, i did the following to set up the server to work with the clients:

begin -->
mount cdrom
sudo ltsp-build-client --arch i386 --mirror file:///cdrom

then

sudo ltsp-update-kernels

and

sudo ltsp-update-sshkeys
<-- end

also, are you saying i can install the i386 version of edubuntu on the amd dual core server? if so, i didn't know that. please confirm. perhaps that method is worth a try.

thanks for the response.

oe1

----- Original Message ----
From: Gavin McCullagh <gmccullagh@gmail.com>
To: edubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com
Sent: Sunday, April 6, 2008 4:21:05 AM
Subject: Re: 2nd Attempt at Setting Up Lab

Hi,

On Sat, 05 Apr 2008, operationsengineer1@yahoo.com wrote:

> i bought a server to convert a bunch of pii 200mhz machines into edubuntu
> terminals at my kid's school. however, i didn't quite understand the
> complexity of using intel based terminals and an amd64 dual core server.
> long story short - they wouldn't connect. this is likely due to my lack
> of wizardry,

You don't explaing what the problem is, so we can only presume it's an
issue with the architecture mix. If you want to give us some errors from
the thin client, we can give you better advice.

> however, i'm not trying to be a dual architecture, work
> through incompatibilities wizard, i'm trying to set up a lab that kids
> will find useful.

There are two options for getting the dual arch working:

1. Reinstall the server with the i386 version. This is easy and involves
no wizardry.

2. Get your thin clients working as i386 with the server running amd64.
First, on the command line run:
sudo ltsp-build-client --arch i386
Then edit
/etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf
and replace "amd64" with "i386". Then restart dhcp
sudo /etc/init.d/dhcp3-server restart
Reboot thin client.

I don't think there are any more steps in [2], but this is untested so let
us know if that doesn't work (and what errors you see) and we'll figure it
out.

Of [1] and [2] there are advantages in both. Depending on how many thin
clients you plan to have, [1] may well be the simpler approach and may suit
you better. With [2] the server will run the 64-bit version of firefox and
it will be difficult to get FLASH (which is 32-bit) working. If you go
with [1], this should just work.

> so, it is on to plan b. i want to swap out the main board on the server
> and go with an intel cpu. are there any "gotchas" i can avoid by picking
> the right motherboard and cpu? do intel 64 bit cpus pose a problem?

Abort plan b! You _definitely_ don't need to change the cpu or motherboard.
amd64 machines can run the i386 version of edubuntu just fine.

Let us know how you get on,

Gavin


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__________________________________________________ __________________________________
You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost.
http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com

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Old 04-07-2008, 09:06 AM
Gavin McCullagh
 
Default 2nd Attempt at Setting Up Lab

Hi,

On Sun, 06 Apr 2008, operationsengineer1@yahoo.com wrote:

> mount cdrom
> sudo ltsp-build-client --arch i386 --mirror file:///cdrom
> sudo ltsp-update-kernels
> sudo ltsp-update-sshkeys

Did you update the dhcp server config as suggested? If your dhcp server is
pointing clients toward the amd64 data, your new i386 images won't get
used.

> also, are you saying i can install the i386 version of edubuntu on the
> amd dual core server? if so, i didn't know that. please confirm.
> perhaps that method is worth a try.

That's exactly what I'm saying. This is for the same reason you can run
32-bit windows on amd64 machines. My own opinion, for the moment, the is
that the 32-bit edubuntu system will probably suit most people better,
unless the size of your install dictates that 64-bit is necessary (eg you
need > 4GB ram). Basically, most people need FLASH and it's a real pain to
get working in 64-bit edubuntu. You may at some point want some other
proprietary apps too and chances are they need a 32-bit environment too.

Gavin


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Old 04-07-2008, 04:10 PM
"Charles Austin"
 
Default 2nd Attempt at Setting Up Lab

On Mon, Apr 7, 2008 at 5:06 AM, Gavin McCullagh <gmccullagh@gmail.com> wrote:

> > also, are you saying i can install the i386 version of edubuntu on the
> > amd dual core server? if so, i didn't know that. please confirm.
> > perhaps that method is worth a try.
>
> That's exactly what I'm saying. This is for the same reason you can run
> 32-bit windows on amd64 machines. My own opinion, for the moment, the is
> that the 32-bit edubuntu system will probably suit most people better,
> unless the size of your install dictates that 64-bit is necessary (eg you
> need > 4GB ram). Basically, most people need FLASH and it's a real pain to
> get working in 64-bit edubuntu. You may at some point want some other
> proprietary apps too and chances are they need a 32-bit environment too.

I strongly agree with Gavin. Running the 64 bit version is rather
difficult. Flash is a bear, and the printer drivers I needed for a
new Dell Color Laser were only available for 32 bit OS.

If you need to use more than 4GB of memory with a 32bit install, you
can install the server kernel:
sudo apt-get install kernel-server
Then update the images for your thin clients (not sure if it is
necessary, but it won't hurt):
sudo ltsp-update-kernel
sudo ltsp-update-image

Running 8GB on my 32 bit install.

Charles

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Old 04-07-2008, 04:21 PM
Gavin McCullagh
 
Default 2nd Attempt at Setting Up Lab

Hi,

On Mon, 07 Apr 2008, Charles Austin wrote:

> If you need to use more than 4GB of memory with a 32bit install, you
> can install the server kernel:
> sudo apt-get install kernel-server

Actually, that's:

sudo apt-get install linux-image-server

but yes, it supports >4GB RAM (at some hard to define cost).

> Then update the images for your thin clients (not sure if it is
> necessary, but it won't hurt):
> sudo ltsp-update-kernel
> sudo ltsp-update-image

It shouldn't be necessary, unless your thin clients are the ones that need
+4GB RAM, which seems unlikely :-)

Gavin


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