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Old 10-23-2011, 11:58 PM
Alkis Georgopoulos
 
Default Switching to Kubuntu; problems?

Στις 23-10-2011, ημ*ρα Κυρ, και ώρα 17:15 -0500, ο/η David Groos *γραψε:
> XFCE has the advantage of being really light weight, Right?
>

I booted four flavors of Ubuntu 11.10 beta 1 live CDs in VMs and ran
`free` to see the free memory right after the live CD was loaded.
Of course that's a silly measurement that doesn't mean much, but anyway
here's the RAM usage:

ubuntu: 384 MB (unity-2d, the VM wasn't 3d capable)
kubuntu: 330 MB
xubuntu: 310 MB
lubuntu: 233 MB

It does however show that lubuntu is much lighter on RAM requirements
than the other 3 flavors.



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Old 10-24-2011, 12:03 AM
Mike Biancaniello
 
Default Switching to Kubuntu; problems?

I didn't mean that things didn't work in one or the other, just that the optimisations seem to be geared toward the smaller screens where the traditional desktop is lacking and the new (scrollbars, unity-type stuff, borderless windows, menu in the top panel, etc) desktop makes for a much better experience overall.* I'm pretty impressed with the innovations I'm seeing w/r/t screen real estate.

My point is only that I hope (like some of the other posters) that the trend does not end up moving away from having a classic desktop (with an actual applications menu where you don't have to type to find a new app and other panels where you can put frequently used stuff, etc, etc) as an option.* I was surprised in 11.04 where my hw did not support unity (and apparently my laptop lost access to the VGA so I couldn't even dock it anymore -- but that's a separate issue) and ubuntu classic was not an option and I had to install it separately.

One thing I have noticed, though, with edubuntu is that if I have a PC that can't support Unity, that same PC is able to PXE boot the ltsp edubuntu image and get the unity desktop no problem.* So that was a really nice surprise. (so yeah, even though I'm not 100% onboard with Unity yet, I still enjoy using it and trying to like it because it's new and cool).From: Jeremy Bicha <jbicha@ubuntu.com>
Cc: edubuntu-users <edubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2011 at 6:54 pm
Subject: Re: Switching to Kubuntu; problems?

On 23 October 2011 16:44, Mike Biancaniello <mikebianc@aol.com> wrote:

> I've noticed a transition lately to optimisations for* smaller screens and

> making more out of limited real estate and for tablets and phone and such,

> it's wonderful and quite innovative.* However, for those of us who still use

> an actual monitor, it's annoying at best.* From not being able to scroll my

> firefox by clicking the bottom of the scrollbar to the entire unity

> interface, it is not optimised in the least for anyone with a screen larger

> than 10".



The scrollbars will be improved in Ubuntu 12.04. For a preview, see

http://vimeo.com/30096481

Technically, Firefox doesn't use the new overlay scrollbars. The

scrollbars did improve in 11.10 and they are pretty easy to remove

(just uninstall liboverlay-scrollbar* ).



Multi-monitor support should be getting some work in 12.04 which is

obviously not a tablet optimization. Unity and GNOME Shell definitely

work on average screens, not just small ones (I don't have a large

screen nor a Ubuntu-capable touchscreen at home). And there's

definitely value in having the same UI for tablet users and desktop

users. Neither Unity nor GNOME Shell fully support a touch interface

yet but GNOME Shell is closer.



On 23 October 2011 18:15, David Groos <djgroos@gmail.com> wrote:

> XFCE has the advantage of being really light weight, Right? That is a great advantage. What would be lost by moving away from GNOME? Wouldn't we loose the use of some current Edubuntu software? In other words, what's the full range of pros/cons?



Shipping xubuntu-desktop by default in no way impacts whether you can

use GNOME or KDE educational apps. I've not used XFCE recently but

it's not as full featured as a GNOME Fallback desktop (which will be

even more usable next release when indicators are ported to it).



Jeremy Bicha



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Old 10-24-2011, 01:24 AM
"Jonathan Carter (highvoltage)"
 
Default Switching to Kubuntu; problems?

Hi Robert

On 11-10-23 12:32 PM, Robert Curriden wrote:
> Let's all be honest. Fallback is not Classic; I'm hoping that 12.04 has
> more common sense, and maintains the Classic desktop.

I'm using the fallback mode and it works pretty much like the classic
mode for me. What is it missing for you?

-Jonathan

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Old 10-24-2011, 11:59 AM
Robert Curriden
 
Default Switching to Kubuntu; problems?

Panels, visual effects, plug-ins, forcing the use of Gnome shell...

This move by Canonical is not unlike Microsoft's changing in their own
UI, and is just as arrogant.

FWIW, I am waiting until 12.04; I've used Ubuntu for some time now, and
don't want to change. I just can't stand Unity, and don't want to have
to either use a broken UI and hope they don't completely eliminate it
with the next version, or be stuck using a crippled interface best
suited for smaller touchscreen devices.


On Sun, 2011-10-23 at 21:24 -0400, Jonathan Carter (highvoltage) wrote:
> Hi Robert
>
> On 11-10-23 12:32 PM, Robert Curriden wrote:
> > Let's all be honest. Fallback is not Classic; I'm hoping that 12.04 has
> > more common sense, and maintains the Classic desktop.
>
> I'm using the fallback mode and it works pretty much like the classic
> mode for me. What is it missing for you?
>
> -Jonathan



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Old 10-24-2011, 12:51 PM
 
Default Switching to Kubuntu; problems?

Am 24.10.2011 13:59, schrieb Robert Curriden:

Panels, visual effects, plug-ins, forcing the use of Gnome shell...

This move by Canonical is not unlike Microsoft's changing in their own
UI, and is just as arrogant.


It's not just Canonical, it's everybody! There is a serious conflict
between developers with early adopters versus "users". In my role as a
user I started with KDE 1 and faithfully followed through KDE 2, 3, and
3.5, which did almost everything I wanted and could be configured to be
similar to Gnome, or vice versa. It also worked perfectly with Edubuntu
simply by installing the meta package kubuntu-desktop.


Then came the totally new KDE 4, which is cool, but still doesn't work
well enough for old "users" like me, who also miss some of the features
of KDE 3. I tried it for a while and still have (to have) it installed
for KDE-4-only programs like Marble, but have gone back to KDE 3.5,
which is much faster and less buggy. I also have the classic Gnome
installed of course, but it seems a dead end apparently to be replaced
by something completely different soon. Canonical just preemted this
with Unity, which seems OK for new users and for mobile devices with
small screens, who just want a program starter, but is not something I
want to use myself on a large screen.


I also tried Xubuntu and Lubuntu desktops and will probably use one of
these when KDE 3.5 becomes untenable (it is already deteriorating and
switching between KDE 3 and 4 programs is possible but a bit unnerving
because the look and feel is so different.


In short, this excessive high-speed forking has seriously impaired the
Linux desktop. I wouldn't know what to recommend a business user or
indeed a school. Many organisations are moving from Windows XP to
Windows 7. A switch to KDE 4 would be of the same order of difficulty
and some distributions like Mepis soften the switch remarkably well (I
use Mepis at work). The reason I can't recommend Kubuntu for Edubuntu is
because in my opinion the Kubuntu implementation of KDE 4 has "lost" the
classic desktop users somewhere. I'm sure it could be tweaked by
experts, but it isn't something I can do without losing patience.


BTW, my problems were often a combination of low performance and
usabilty, i.e. a warning appears, in the wrong colours, and disappears
before I can deciffer it, or a button action appears not to work, so you
try a few times and give up, and then after a while you get ten windows
at once.


Best, Theo Schmidt

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Old 10-24-2011, 01:38 PM
Mike Biancaniello
 
Default Switching to Kubuntu; problems?

*I was able to get gnome shell to work the way I wanted it to (at least I think it was gnome shell -- Ubuntu 11.10 with the classic desktop).* There were some changes like I had to hold 'alt' when right-clicking the panel to get the menu that I was expecting (add new panel, add to this panel, etc), but overall, I really did not notice a difference.

I'm currently looking at migrating my kids' ltsp server to 11.10 and so far, so good.From: Robert Curriden <rcurriden@gmail.com>
To: Jonathan Carter (highvoltage) <jonathan@ubuntu.com>
Cc: edubuntu-users <edubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com>
Sent: Monday, October 24, 2011 at 7:59 am
Subject: Re: Switching to Kubuntu; problems?

Panels, visual effects, plug-ins, forcing the use of Gnome shell...



This move by Canonical is not unlike Microsoft's changing in their own

UI, and is just as arrogant.



FWIW, I am waiting until 12.04; I've used Ubuntu for some time now, and

don't want to change. I just can't stand Unity, and don't want to have

to either use a broken UI and hope they don't completely eliminate it

with the next version, or be stuck using a crippled interface best

suited for smaller touchscreen devices.





On Sun, 2011-10-23 at 21:24 -0400, Jonathan Carter (highvoltage) wrote:

> Hi Robert

>

> On 11-10-23 12:32 PM, Robert Curriden wrote:

> > Let's all be honest. Fallback is not Classic; I'm hoping that 12.04 has

> > more common sense, and maintains the Classic desktop.

>

> I'm using the fallback mode and it works pretty much like the classic

> mode for me. What is it missing for you?

>

> -Jonathan







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Old 10-24-2011, 01:42 PM
"Jonathan Carter (highvoltage)"
 
Default Switching to Kubuntu; problems?

Hi Robert

On 11-10-24 07:59 AM, Robert Curriden wrote:
> Panels, visual effects, plug-ins, forcing the use of Gnome shell...

In gnome fallback I can change my panels and my layout as I wish. I can
also choose another window manager like compiz.

-Jonathan

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