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Old 11-13-2010, 02:31 PM
Jim Christiansen
 
Default DRBL and Technology

OK... *I give! ;-)
Robert A. (aka: of Fl_TeacherTool fame) came by for a visit last summer with his beautiful *family and explained to me,*among*other things, how DRBL worked. *I had read about it a year earlier and even grabbed the scripts but didn't go any further with it *(I've been terribly handicapped... *until recently I've spent most of my time with DIY fuel injection, DIY ignition and Vette engines in odd vehicles) - sort of adhd so to speak. *Robert probably noticed my distraction and attention focused on the garage...

I'll fire DRBL onto a server and give it a go with several senior students to gorilla test it and the install process. *
I sure have had a greater number of teachers than ever before asking for functional access to*heavy*flash sites and if DRBL, as it is a local running image, can facilitate this I'm all for it.

As for including DRBL in Edubuntu it would seem to be a no-brainer. *We can't hold up progress, we've got to embrace it and roll with it*every*step of the way. *I'm in a school where the Principals have always been supportive of Linux and LTSP. *From comparisons of down-time to maintenance and dollars spent they appreciate what Linux and LTSP has to offer. *Maybe DRBL is next in line for adoption.

We run a basically open wireless system in the building. *After I placed the last repeater (dd-wrt) and fired up the new gateway I had an instant 240 ipods clogging the new pipe. *Students use these devices in all language classes and anywhere else teachers promote their use. *Kudos to the French and Spanish teacher for the rapid adoption. *Now we need to add another subnet so our 56 netbooks on carts can have*guaranteed*access.

Thanks everyone,
Jim *
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Old 11-14-2010, 11:23 PM
"Jonathan Carter (highvoltage)"
 
Default DRBL and Technology

Hi Jim

On 10-11-13 10:31 AM, Jim Christiansen wrote:
> As for including DRBL in Edubuntu it would seem to be a no-brainer. We
> can't hold up progress, we've got to embrace it and roll with
> it every step of the way. I'm in a school where the Principals have
> always been supportive of Linux and LTSP. From comparisons of down-time
> to maintenance and dollars spent they appreciate what Linux and LTSP has
> to offer. Maybe DRBL is next in line for adoption.

I looked at the DRBL docs, and couldn't see anything it provides that
ltsp fat clients doesn't already do. Could you elaborate on why you
believe that it's a "no-brainer"?

-Jonathan

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Old 11-15-2010, 10:05 AM
Oliver Grawert
 
Default DRBL and Technology

hi,
Am Sonntag, den 14.11.2010, 19:23 -0500 schrieb Jonathan Carter
(highvoltage):
> I looked at the DRBL docs, and couldn't see anything it provides that
> ltsp fat clients doesn't already do. Could you elaborate on why you
> believe that it's a "no-brainer"?
last time i looked at DRBL (which is admittedly several years ago) it
was built in a way that massively modifies config files, adds scripts
that unconditionally change system setup in a way that the package
system isnt aware and broken existing setups without checks etc. in that
state it wasnt integrateable at all in a distro.

as i said, i dont know what changed within the last years, probably it
got better nowadays but at my time as active LTSP developer it seemed
more sane and less work to integrate fat clients in a sensible way than
trying to make the DRBL scripts and setup work in an unintrusive way.

ciao
oli
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Old 11-15-2010, 10:22 AM
"Todd O'Bryan"
 
Default DRBL and Technology

I hadn't realized how nice the support for fat clients was in LTSP
until I looked at the docs. Especially in a mixed thin/fat environment
(where you're buying machines to replace thin clients over time), it
seems like this might be the way to go. The one thing I didn't see
right off was how to tell each client, based on MAC address I assume,
which image to load--either thin or fat. I assume you do that in the
lts.conf file.

Todd

On Mon, Nov 15, 2010 at 6:05 AM, Oliver Grawert <ogra@ubuntu.com> wrote:
> hi,
> Am Sonntag, den 14.11.2010, 19:23 -0500 schrieb Jonathan Carter
> (highvoltage):
>> I looked at the DRBL docs, and couldn't see anything it provides that
>> ltsp fat clients doesn't already do. Could you elaborate on why you
>> believe that it's a "no-brainer"?
> last time i looked at DRBL (which is admittedly several years ago) it
> was built in a way that massively modifies config files, adds scripts
> that unconditionally change system setup in a way that the package
> system isnt aware and broken existing setups without checks etc. in that
> state it wasnt integrateable at all in a distro.
>
> as i said, i dont know what changed within the last years, probably it
> got better nowadays but at my time as active LTSP developer it seemed
> more sane and less work to integrate fat clients in a sensible way than
> trying to make the DRBL scripts and setup work in an unintrusive way.
>
> ciao
> * * * *oli
>
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>
>

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Old 11-15-2010, 02:33 PM
"Jonathan Carter (highvoltage)"
 
Default DRBL and Technology

Hi Todd

On 10-11-15 06:22 AM, Todd O'Bryan wrote:
> I hadn't realized how nice the support for fat clients was in LTSP
> until I looked at the docs. Especially in a mixed thin/fat environment
> (where you're buying machines to replace thin clients over time), it
> seems like this might be the way to go. The one thing I didn't see
> right off was how to tell each client, based on MAC address I assume,
> which image to load--either thin or fat. I assume you do that in the
> lts.conf file.

Yep, you would use the same image for thin and fat client machines. On
LTSP, LDM is also used for local logons when using diskless fat clients,
so if you want a machine to be a thin client instead of a fat client,
all you need in lts.conf is something like this:

[08:00:27:a6:99:99]
LTSP_FATCLIENT=false

-Jonathan

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Old 11-15-2010, 09:22 PM
"Todd O'Bryan"
 
Default DRBL and Technology

What if the thin clients are i386 and the fat clients are amd64?

Also, I guess I'm not understanding something about how the chroot
works. Do I not install the packages I want to run locally in the
chroot for the fat clients? If so, does the fat client "just know" to
download the binary the first time something is run so that it runs on
the local machine instead of the server?

Todd

On Mon, Nov 15, 2010 at 10:33 AM, Jonathan Carter (highvoltage)
<jonathan@ubuntu.com> wrote:
> Hi Todd
>
> On 10-11-15 06:22 AM, Todd O'Bryan wrote:
>> I hadn't realized how nice the support for fat clients was in LTSP
>> until I looked at the docs. Especially in a mixed thin/fat environment
>> (where you're buying machines to replace thin clients over time), it
>> seems like this might be the way to go. The one thing I didn't see
>> right off was how to tell each client, based on MAC address I assume,
>> which image to load--either thin or fat. I assume you do that in the
>> lts.conf file.
>
> Yep, you would use the same image for thin and fat client machines. On
> LTSP, LDM is also used for local logons when using diskless fat clients,
> so if you want a machine to be a thin client instead of a fat client,
> all you need in lts.conf is something like this:
>
> [08:00:27:a6:99:99]
> *LTSP_FATCLIENT=false
>
> -Jonathan
>
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Old 11-15-2010, 09:51 PM
"Jonathan Carter (highvoltage)"
 
Default DRBL and Technology

Hi Todd

On 10-11-15 05:22 PM, Todd O'Bryan wrote:
> What if the thin clients are i386 and the fat clients are amd64?

You'll have to have separate i386 and amd64 chroots. Typically though,
i386 images are used for both.

> Also, I guess I'm not understanding something about how the chroot
> works. Do I not install the packages I want to run locally in the
> chroot for the fat clients? If so, does the fat client "just know" to
> download the binary the first time something is run so that it runs on
> the local machine instead of the server?

Yep, you'll need to install them in the chroot. You could then run them
by doing "ltsp-localapps appname" to run it locally. You can also
specify which applications you want to run locally in lts.conf, and the
user menus will then be modified to run those programs with ltsp-localapps.

-Jonathan

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Old 11-24-2010, 02:35 AM
"Todd O'Bryan"
 
Default DRBL and Technology

OK, still trying to clarify this...

I create a fat-client chroot that has a bunch of stuff in it. In
particular, in my lab I teach programming, so I've got a few
programming languages installed, Google Chrome, etc. Then I run
ltsp-update-kernels, ltsp-update-image, and ltsp-update-sshkeys, just
to make sure everything got updated.

Now, does the fat-client download *everything* in the chroot into RAM,
or does it mount the chroot remotely and only download what it needs
to boot, loading the other stuff from (the server's) disk as it needs
it? I guess what I'm asking is, is the part that the client gets over
the network to boot considerably more for a fat-client than a
thin-client, or is it about the same, with the fat-client then
mounting the files it needs on the server?

Todd

On Mon, Nov 15, 2010 at 5:51 PM, Jonathan Carter (highvoltage)
<jonathan@ubuntu.com> wrote:
> Hi Todd
>
> On 10-11-15 05:22 PM, Todd O'Bryan wrote:
>> What if the thin clients are i386 and the fat clients are amd64?
>
> You'll have to have separate i386 and amd64 chroots. Typically though,
> i386 images are used for both.
>
>> Also, I guess I'm not understanding something about how the chroot
>> works. Do I not install the packages I want to run locally in the
>> chroot for the fat clients? If so, does the fat client "just know" to
>> download the binary the first time something is run so that it runs on
>> the local machine instead of the server?
>
> Yep, you'll need to install them in the chroot. You could then run them
> by doing "ltsp-localapps appname" to run it locally. You can also
> specify which applications you want to run locally in lts.conf, and the
> user menus will then be modified to run those programs with ltsp-localapps.
>
> -Jonathan
>
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Old 11-24-2010, 01:05 PM
"Jonathan Carter (highvoltage)"
 
Default DRBL and Technology

hi Todd

On 10-11-23 10:35 PM, Todd O'Bryan wrote:
> I create a fat-client chroot that has a bunch of stuff in it. In
> particular, in my lab I teach programming, so I've got a few
> programming languages installed, Google Chrome, etc. Then I run
> ltsp-update-kernels, ltsp-update-image, and ltsp-update-sshkeys, just
> to make sure everything got updated.
>
> Now, does the fat-client download *everything* in the chroot into RAM,
> or does it mount the chroot remotely and only download what it needs
> to boot, loading the other stuff from (the server's) disk as it needs
> it? I guess what I'm asking is, is the part that the client gets over
> the network to boot considerably more for a fat-client than a
> thin-client, or is it about the same, with the fat-client then
> mounting the files it needs on the server?

To boot up it uses about just the same resources as a normal thin
client. It only reads the data as it's required, just like it would when
reading from a local hard disk.

-Jonathan

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