Is it just me, or is LTSP a mess?
 

Can you put more ram in ?

I have had the same experiences. Alternatively go back to 7.04 , I have
the watchdog app running but it is no solution.

Dean


Todd O'Bryan wrote:
> OK, first let me say that I'm using the LTSP package on Ubuntu Hardy,
> not an Edubuntu install, so if that's the source of my problems, let
> me know and I'll install whatever I need to to get the Edubuntu
> goodies that I'm missing. My clients are Devon IT 6020P's--128 MB of RAM.
>
> Here's a recap of my last several classes. Students log in, try to
> work, and have hard freezes of the clients. I presume these freezes
> are the result of the pixmap caching problem that people have
> mentioned, and setting X_RAMPERC (or XRAMPERC, I've seen both
> spellings online) doesn't help at all. What's more, the problem occurs
> with OpenOffice and a programming environment I use, not just Firefox,
> so the Firefox 3 environment setting trick only solves some of my
> problems.
>
> What's more, whenever the client freezes, students can't log back in,
> so I spend a great deal of my time running "sudo slay studentlogin"
> instead of teaching.
>
> Am I doing something wrong, or are things far less stable than they
> should be?
>
> Todd O'Bryan
> duPont Manual High School
> Louisville, Kentucky
>
> P.S. I'm considering switching back to the K12LTSP package, just
> because it's so rock-solid, but I'd hate to give up the Ubuntu/Debian
> goodness I've come to rely on. The thing Eric Harrison managed to do
> is create all the settings and extra files to make LTSP work out of
> the box. The cool thing about Debian's packaging system is that you
> can change settings, add packages, and do all the other cool stuff
> that he does as part of installing a package. So if we can figure out
> how to get everything working, creating something that works out of
> the box should be doable.

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Is it just me, or is LTSP a mess?
 

We have also the exact same experience. We are a big school with over
400 clients and 9 servers that run Ubuntu Hardy. It all worked superb
with the K12LTSP package with Fedora. Now everything is a mess, and we
are considering switching back to K12LTSP. The observation I have done
indicate that our fileserver is overloaded with some kind of traffic
everytime a class log in which results in a ever lasting long queue of
processes waiting for respons from the filserver. I thought that this
was where the dog was burried. But the problem is the same with a shiny
new fileserver that indeed should handle the workload (There should.not
be any workload at all here)....And of course we also have the
processes that hangs on the LTSP servers that you already mentioned. To
me it seems like Ubuntu Hardy is not up for the job yet.. If there is
no solution in the near future we have to go back to K12LTSP. I really
like Ubuntu, but we have to have a system that really works and that
you can trust beeing used by hundreds of pupils. K12LTSP did this....


Kjetil Knudsen
Grødem skole, Norway

On Tue, Sep 9, 2008 at 3:28 PM, Todd O'Bryan <toddobryan@gmail.com> wrote:

OK, first let me say that I'm using the LTSP package on Ubuntu Hardy, not an Edubuntu install, so if that's the source of my problems, let me know and I'll install whatever I need to to get the Edubuntu goodies that I'm missing. My clients are Devon IT 6020P's--128 MB of RAM.





Here's a recap of my last several classes. Students log in, try to work, and have hard freezes of the clients. I presume these freezes are the result of the pixmap caching problem that people have mentioned, and setting X_RAMPERC (or XRAMPERC, I've seen both spellings online) doesn't help at all. What's more, the problem occurs with OpenOffice and a programming environment I use, not just Firefox, so the Firefox 3 environment setting trick only solves some of my problems.




What's more, whenever the client freezes, students can't log back in, so I spend a great deal of my time running "sudo slay studentlogin" instead of teaching.

Am I doing something wrong, or are things far less stable than they should be?




Todd O'Bryan
duPont Manual High School
Louisville, Kentucky

P.S. I'm considering switching back to the K12LTSP package, just because it's so rock-solid, but I'd hate to give up the Ubuntu/Debian goodness I've come to rely on. The thing Eric Harrison managed to do is create all the settings and extra files to make LTSP work out of the box. The cool thing about Debian's packaging system is that you can change settings, add packages, and do all the other cool stuff that he does as part of installing a package. So if we can figure out how to get everything working, creating something that works out of the box should be doable.





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Is it just me, or is LTSP a mess?
 

kjetil knudsen kirjoitti:

> We have also the exact same experience. We are a big school with over
> 400 clients and 9 servers that run Ubuntu Hardy. [>8] I really like
> Ubuntu, but we have to have a system that really works and that you can
> trust beeing used by hundreds of pupils. K12LTSP did this....

This proves anything... We used to have Ubuntu 6.06+LTSP4.2, now we have
Ubuntu 8.04.1+LTSP5.

2 servers, both have 2 x Dual Core Xeon and 6G memory. LAN is fast. We
have 113 thin clients, HP t5125/5135.

Here is video about one classroom (12 thin clients) on the other day.
First some 2D games, then Gimp and then Flash games on the Internet.

http://blip.tv/file/1227903/

Best Regards Asmo Koskinen.

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Is it just me, or is LTSP a mess?
 

Asmo Koskinen kirjoitti:
> kjetil knudsen kirjoitti:
>
>> We have also the exact same experience. We are a big school with over
>> 400 clients and 9 servers that run Ubuntu Hardy. [>8] I really like
>> Ubuntu, but we have to have a system that really works and that you can
>> trust beeing used by hundreds of pupils. K12LTSP did this....
>
> This proves anything...
>
> http://blip.tv/file/1227903/

"This" means my video about one classroom (12/113 thin clients), not
your whole post, Kjetil.

Best Regards Asmo Koskinen.

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Is it just me, or is LTSP a mess?
 

Sorry to sidestep the thread here, but what thin clients do you use?

On Tue, Sep 9, 2008 at 5:26 PM, Asmo Koskinen <asmo.koskinen@arkki.info> wrote:

kjetil knudsen kirjoitti:



> We have also the exact same experience. We are a big school with over

> 400 clients and 9 servers that run Ubuntu Hardy. [>8] I really like

> Ubuntu, but we have to have a system that really works and that you can

> trust beeing used by hundreds of pupils. K12LTSP did this....



This proves anything... We used to have Ubuntu 6.06+LTSP4.2, now we have

Ubuntu 8.04.1+LTSP5.



2 servers, both have 2 x Dual Core Xeon and 6G memory. LAN is fast. We

have 113 thin clients, HP t5125/5135.



Here is video about one classroom (12 thin clients) on the other day.

First some 2D games, then Gimp and then Flash games on the Internet.



http://blip.tv/file/1227903/



Best Regards Asmo Koskinen.



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Is it just me, or is LTSP a mess?
 

On Tue, Sep 9, 2008 at 6:26 PM, Asmo Koskinen <asmo.koskinen@arkki.info> wrote:

kjetil knudsen kirjoitti:



> We have also the exact same experience. We are a big school with over

> 400 clients and 9 servers that run Ubuntu Hardy. [>8] I really like

> Ubuntu, but we have to have a system that really works and that you can

> trust beeing used by hundreds of pupils. K12LTSP did this....



This proves anything... We used to have Ubuntu 6.06+LTSP4.2, now we have

Ubuntu 8.04.1+LTSP5.



2 servers, both have 2 x Dual Core Xeon and 6G memory. LAN is fast. We

have 113 thin clients, HP t5125/5135.



Here is video about one classroom (12 thin clients) on the other day.

First some 2D games, then Gimp and then Flash games on the Internet.
I am very pleased that you are satisfied because Ubuntu Hardy seems like at very god distro with all its eye-candy etc. I see that you are using true thin clients that works well. We have a lot of compaq-desktops that we use as thin-clients. They all have 128-512 MB ram. As i mentioned earlier it seems that there is a problem when the clients are "talking" to the fileserver when the pupils logs on that are generating a huge amount of stress on the fileserver that makes everybody and everything stall. 5-15 pupils are in a way* acceptable. But when 20-30 pupils logs on, the fileserver is paralysed. (And again. Our fileserver is overkill). To me it seems like perhaps it is the clients that make some kind of wild NFS traffic towards the fileserver when they log on. And when none of these problems occured with K12LTSP with the same clients and servers I naturally believe that there is something strange in Hardy and LTSP5


Kjetil Knudsen
Grødem skole, Norway


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Is it just me, or is LTSP a mess?
 

Daniel Hunt kirjoitti:

> Sorry to sidestep the thread here, but what thin clients do you use?

> On Tue, Sep 9, 2008 at 5:26 PM, Asmo Koskinen <asmo.koskinen@arkki.info
> 2 servers, both have 2 x Dual Core Xeon and 6G memory. LAN is fast. We
> have 113 thin clients, HP t5125/5135.

HP t5125, 5135.

http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/us/en/sm/WF06a/12454-12454-321959-338927-89307-472257.html
http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/us/en/sm/WF06a/12454-12454-321959-338927-89307-3341342.html

Some interesting off the road stuff:

http://marc.info/?l=ltsp-developer&m=122051383905765&w=2
http://pastebot.ltsp.org/59

Best Regards Asmo Koskinen.

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Is it just me, or is LTSP a mess?
 

On Tue, 2008-09-09 at 20:10 +0200, kjetil knudsen wrote:
>
>
> On Tue, Sep 9, 2008 at 6:26 PM, Asmo Koskinen
> <asmo.koskinen@arkki.info> wrote:
> kjetil knudsen kirjoitti:
>
> > We have also the exact same experience. We are a big school
> with over
>
> > 400 clients and 9 servers that run Ubuntu Hardy. [>8] I
> really like
> > Ubuntu, but we have to have a system that really works and
> that you can
> > trust beeing used by hundreds of pupils. K12LTSP did
> this....
>
>
> This proves anything... We used to have Ubuntu 6.06+LTSP4.2,
> now we have
> Ubuntu 8.04.1+LTSP5.
>
> 2 servers, both have 2 x Dual Core Xeon and 6G memory. LAN is
> fast. We
> have 113 thin clients, HP t5125/5135.
>
> Here is video about one classroom (12 thin clients) on the
> other day.
> First some 2D games, then Gimp and then Flash games on the
> Internet.
>
> I am very pleased that you are satisfied because Ubuntu Hardy seems
> like at very god distro with all its eye-candy etc. I see that you are
> using true thin clients that works well. We have a lot of
> compaq-desktops that we use as thin-clients. They all have 128-512 MB
> ram. As i mentioned earlier it seems that there is a problem when the
> clients are "talking" to the fileserver when the pupils logs on that
> are generating a huge amount of stress on the fileserver that makes
> everybody and everything stall. 5-15 pupils are in a way acceptable.
> But when 20-30 pupils logs on, the fileserver is paralysed. (And
> again. Our fileserver is overkill). To me it seems like perhaps it is
> the clients that make some kind of wild NFS traffic towards the
> fileserver when they log on. And when none of these problems occured
> with K12LTSP with the same clients and servers I naturally believe
> that there is something strange in Hardy and LTSP5
>
> Kjetil Knudsen
> Grødem skole, Norway
>
>

Are you using LDM_DIRECTX=yes ?






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Is it just me, or is LTSP a mess?
 

kjetil knudsen kirjoitti:

> I see that you are using
> true thin clients that works well. We have a lot of compaq-desktops that
> we use as thin-clients. They all have 128-512 MB ram.

I have tested (very lightly, just here home) different kind of thin
clients. LTSP5 needs good graphic adaptor. Better you have, more you can
get out of LTSP5 and also these new widescreen LCD monitors.

You can see difference.

HP t5125 + 20" LCD (openSUSE need 256 mem for LTSP5, HP t5125 drops out)
http://asmokoskinen.blip.tv/file/1181073/

Asus Eee 701 + 20" LCD
http://asmokoskinen.blip.tv/file/1181115/

> To me it seems like perhaps it is the clients that make some
> kind of wild NFS traffic towards the fileserver when they log on.

On the Ubuntu 6.06+LTSP4.2 I did have /home on the other/third NFS-server.

On the Ubuntu 8.04+LTSP5 I have /home on the master server's second disc
(scsi) and it is mounted (NFS) on the slave server. I do not know is
this good or bad, but now I have only two servers for everything.

Here are my conf files for both servers:

http://www.arkki.info/howto/Wiki/LTSP5-Mantykangas/ltsp-master/
http://www.arkki.info/howto/Wiki/LTSP5-Mantykangas/ltsp-slave/

Best Regards Asmo Koskinen.



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Is it just me, or is LTSP a mess?
 

On Tue, Sep 9, 2008 at 8:15 AM, Asmo Koskinen <asmo.koskinen@arkki.info> wrote:




HP t5125, 5135.



http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/us/en/sm/WF06a/12454-12454-321959-338927-89307-472257.html

http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/us/en/sm/WF06a/12454-12454-321959-338927-89307-3341342.html

Edubuntu has had an adverse and destructive effect on the adoption of Free and Open Source Software in schools.

I
think Asmo is the only person who has had success with Ubunut/Edubuntu,
and the brand new clients are a factor.* Many of us use older computers
as thin clients.* The Ubu/Edu documentation has been inconsistent on
what thin clients are supported.* I have not yet looked at the LTS.CONF
file for Hardy, but it is likely a culprit in performance.


The question is what to do now.* Eric Harrison is not as active
with the K12LTSP - and the K12LTSP is no more - it is becoming a Fedora
Spin with RedHat sponsorship.* Warren Togami, fedora founder, is
actively involved with this.* It is not ready for production, but bugs
are being sought and squashed.


Debian-edu, aka Skolelinux, has a responsive mailing list, polite
developers, and a community will to do good in a responsible way.*
Perhaps Ubuntu would be wise to build on this element of the Debian
community, too.


The Hardy problems existed in Feisty.* 7.04 was the only acceptable
thin-client server release.* *NOTHING* critical in 7.10 appears to have
been addressed in 8.04 in spite of the heavy volume of traffic on this
list.


Until someone upstream in the Ubu/Edu projects takes a pro-active
and cooperative stance, Canonical will continue to abuse the good work
of its education predecessors by falsely claiming to have a
community-based solution without the community.


I still volunteer to run the lab that prompted Warren to start the
Fedora project in Hawaii.* It was a thin client lab until we moved to
7.10.* This completely destroyed the school's taste for thin clients.*
Now we use stand-alone workstations with central authentication.*


--scott


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