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Old 04-19-2010, 04:03 PM
"Jonathan Carter (highvoltage)"
 
Default My ideas for Ubuntu 10.10 (maverick)

Hi

Last meeting we started talking about how we're going to plan for
maverick. I suggested that we note our current ideas and merge them
together in a gobby session that we can add to a wiki page and discuss
during the UDS period.

Here are my ideas so far, they might not all be good for the next or
even any release, but it's what I have in my list so far:

1. Plymouth text-fallbacks

Currently, when there is no KMS available for the current video setup,
Plymouth will fall back to a text plugin that currently displays
"Ubuntu" on an aubergine background. There wasn't any time in the lucid
cycle to create a text-fallback Edubuntu plugin, but we should do so for
the maverick release.

2. Edubuntu remote network installer

For Lucid, we currently ship all the tools required to launch a remote
live cd session that can also be used to do a remote install (or even
run a diskless LTSP server, as weird as that sounds). It shouldn't take
much work to implement and should be useful for demos and installing
Edubuntu on machines that don't have optical drives (such as netbooks).

3. Quiet down PXELinux

Ubuntu has a very clean boot-up process, although after the netboot
firmware has loaded and pxelinux initiates, it spews out quite a lot of
data which is of no interest to a typical user and of little interest to
most administrators. If PXELinux could be patched so that administrators
could set verbosity levels to "silent" (no output), "normal" (prints
typical information that might be useful during diagnostics) or
"verbose" (pretty much how it is now, perhaps even some more) then I
think it would be a lot better than it is now. I checked the source
package a few weeks ago and it seems to be done in assembly. I'm not
sure how difficult this would be to actually implement.

4. Split LTSP packages so that scripts is not in main package

This is a packaging task that would allow for more fine-grained control
on where you want to build ltsp environments (specifically, on the build
machines and in live environments)

5. Split edubuntu-artwork package to edubuntu-art, edubuntu-livecd and
edubuntu-settings

The edubuntu-artwork package currently contains all artwork, settings
and livecd parts. A little disk space is wasted in keeping livecd data
after installation, and updates are bigger than necessary since an
entire artwork package will have to be downloaded when any setting has
been updated. For maverick, edubuntu-artwork will be split into 3
packages, edubuntu-artwork, edubuntu-livecd and edubuntu-settings.

6. Remove less fonts at end of the installation (takes quite long currently)

At the end of the installation process, "Running dpkg..." takes a long
time, making our relatively quick installation a lot longer than it
could be. We should check whether all the fonts that are on the disc are
actually necessary for language support and if they are all useful, or
just not remove them at the end. This will need some further
investigation and guidance before we will make any kind of decision.

7. Sugar

Sugar is currently in Ubuntu, but not all packages are up to date. We
should assist the Sugar team where necessary to get all the remaining
packages up to date and include it on the Edubuntu disc for wider testing.

8. Schooltool

Schooltool depends on a wide variety of Zope packages that didn't make
it all into Lucid. When they're in maverick, we should try to get
Schooltool back in the archives and possibly part of an edubuntu-server
metapackage.

9. Pyjunior

http://www.jonobacon.org/2010/04/08/making-programming-easier-for-kids-with-pyjunior
is a simple IDE designed for kids that can be used for Python tuition.
In addition to including this in Edubuntu, it may also be useful to
include Acire (http://www.jonobacon.org/2010/01/12/acire-0-2-released/)
which contains Python snippets on which a user can experiment on.

10. Migrate Edubuntu packages to bzr branches

I first used bzr with packaging with the ltsp packages that Stephane
mentored me on, it makes it easier to work on packages and package data
collaboratively, I think we should have at least all the
edubuntu-specific packages in bzr.

11. OpenLDAP(+kerberos?)

There's been quite a few failed attempts at getting turn-key
authentication services in Ubuntu/Edubuntu. There are some renewed
efforts into this and we could probably include some scripts in the
edubuntu scripts branch if it isn't packagable.

12. Moodle

Moodle's maintenance isn't currently that great, imho we should probably
catch up on what's been going on in Debian and merge efforts there.

13. x2go

x2go is a free x server and client that works well over low-speed
connections similar to nx. It's free software and might be useful for
educational institutions so that users can access their desktops
remotely. It's not in the Ubuntu archives yet although they do have
packages up on their site, I haven't checked how standards compliant the
packaging is but at least there's something to start from.


The list above is in no specific order and not necessarilly an
indication of what we'll ship with maverick, they're just a bunch of
ideas currently. Please send yours as well. I think as a project a lot
of us feel that we should be moving to more education-focused-goals
rather than technical/sysadmin tasks. I tend to give some focus on the
sysadmin stuff especially since I've worked with a lot of schools who
simply have no linux (or even computer) skills available and have to get
by on something that's incredibly intuitive and simple to support. So if
you have any education or classroom specific ideas then they are more
than welcome!

-Jonathan

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Old 04-19-2010, 04:39 PM
Jordan Mantha
 
Default My ideas for Ubuntu 10.10 (maverick)

On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 12:03 PM, Jonathan Carter (highvoltage)
<jonathan@ubuntu.com> wrote:
> 12. Moodle
>
> Moodle's maintenance isn't currently that great, imho we should probably
> catch up on what's been going on in Debian and merge efforts there.

The last emails I got from the Moodle maintainers in Debian was that
the were considering orphaning it. In the past with these kinds of PHP
web apps (wordpress, drupal, moodle, etc.) I've wondering if the best
thing to do is not package them but provide good documentation
instead. They seem constantly out of date and quite difficult to
maintain. It's too bad too because Moodle is such a useful app for
people

-Jordan

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Old 04-20-2010, 10:03 AM
"Jonathan Carter (highvoltage)"
 
Default My ideas for Ubuntu 10.10 (maverick)

Hi Jordan

On 19/04/2010 18:39, Jordan Mantha wrote:
>> Moodle's maintenance isn't currently that great, imho we should probably
>> catch up on what's been going on in Debian and merge efforts there.
>
> The last emails I got from the Moodle maintainers in Debian was that
> the were considering orphaning it. In the past with these kinds of PHP
> web apps (wordpress, drupal, moodle, etc.) I've wondering if the best
> thing to do is not package them but provide good documentation
> instead. They seem constantly out of date and quite difficult to
> maintain. It's too bad too because Moodle is such a useful app for
> people

Yep, I checked last night and the package has indeed been orphaned. I
think you have a very good point, especially considering that some of
these php web apps such as Wordpress can be updated from within the app
(probably faster than any packager could get it into an archive).

The only drawback I can think of is that we wouldn't be able to supply
Moodle in a server meta-package, but perhaps there could be some kind of
moodle-tools package that would download and set it up (perhaps with
some cron jobs or something that could do some semi-automatic updating).

-Jonathan

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Old 04-21-2010, 09:18 AM
Veli-Matti Lintu
 
Default My ideas for Ubuntu 10.10 (maverick)

ma, 2010-04-19 kello 18:03 +0200, Jonathan Carter (highvoltage)
kirjoitti:

> Here are my ideas so far, they might not all be good for the next or
> even any release, but it's what I have in my list so far:

> 11. OpenLDAP(+kerberos?)
>
> There's been quite a few failed attempts at getting turn-key
> authentication services in Ubuntu/Edubuntu. There are some renewed
> efforts into this and we could probably include some scripts in the
> edubuntu scripts branch if it isn't packagable.

We are working on better LDAP/kerberos setup automation and user
management tools as I mentioned last week. Our primary goal is to extend
kerberos single-sign-on to web applications that can be hosted anywhere
to integrate the web applications to the desktop experience. For this
there are quite a few protocols like CAS/OpenID/OAuth/SAML that can be
used to authenticate Moodle/Mediawiki/Zimbra/GoogleApps/Elgg and other
web applications used in schools over here.

I read through quite a few of the old blueprints in Launchpad and
collected them in a table here. Unfortunately most of the blueprints
have been just collecting dust for years. There's also an overview image
of our authentication setups:

http://www.opinsys.fi/en/itch-for-better-user-management-in-ubuntu


One of the main differences in our new tools compared to old plans is
the ability to handle many school districts with many schools within a
single installation. This supports our model where every school has
their own people taking care of user accounts, but they necessarily
don't even know what LDAP is.

The plan was to have the code out by now, but it'll still take some days
before we get to that. This is something that we'll be working on during
the next months and we can spend time on getting things in Ubuntu also.


As I've been going through the setup process, I've been writing in the
blog about it:

http://www.opinsys.fi/en/setting-up-openldap-on-ubuntu-10-04-alpha2


Veli-Matti


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Old 04-21-2010, 06:58 PM
Veli-Matti Lintu
 
Default My ideas for Ubuntu 10.10 (maverick)

Hi,

Luckily most of the closed services I have to deal with either support
standard protocols or support none at all. One of the reasons schools
here are using the closed services is the lack of knowledge on open
source solutions and how to run them. The protocols I listed are used
both in open source applications and closed services, so the protocols
themselves won't be doing the choice.

There's been talk about writing instructions or meta-packages for web
applications that are hard to package. IMO, writing integration
tutorials is definitely needed to get the most out of central user
database. The easier it is to run open source solutions, less there is
need for bad behaving closed services.

Veli-Matti

ke, 2010-04-21 kello 09:34 -0500, Dale Beams kirjoitti:
> In regards to protocols & applications. I noticed that some of the
> web apps listed may be a concern for vendor lock in and would like to
> suggest that whatever direction Edubuntu goes, that an open standard,
> protocol, and stand alone web apps (not dependent upon some mega
> company) remain an available option. Tyeing any protocol into
> Edubuntu, that has vendor lock in is not wise imho. Having open
> standards is.
>
>
> I say this because of a recent hiccup with one of the vendors listed
> that caused an outage of e-mail for a school for about 8 hours. When
> requesting a explanation, the vendor gave none, nor responded.
>
>
>
> Dale
>
>
> > Subject: Re: My ideas for Ubuntu 10.10 (maverick)
> > From: veli-matti.lintu@opinsys.fi
> > To: edubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com
> > Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2010 12:18:37 +0300
> >
> > ma, 2010-04-19 kello 18:03 +0200, Jonathan Carter (highvoltage)
> > kirjoitti:
> >
> > > Here are my ideas so far, they might not all be good for the next
> or
> > > even any release, but it's what I have in my list so far:
> >
> > > 11. OpenLDAP(+kerberos?)
> > >
> > > There's been quite a few failed attempts at getting turn-key
> > > authentication services in Ubuntu/Edubuntu. There are some
> renewed
> > > efforts into this and we could probably include some scripts in
> the
> > > edubuntu scripts branch if it isn't packagable.
> >
> > We are working on better LDAP/kerberos setup automation and user
> > management tools as I mentioned last week. Our primary goal is to
> extend
> > kerberos single-sign-on to web applications that can be hosted
> anywhere
> > to integrate the web applications to the desktop experience. For
> this
> > there are quite a few protocols like CAS/OpenID/OAuth/SAML that can
> be
> > used to authenticate Moodle/Mediawiki/Zimbra/GoogleApps/Elgg and
> other
> > web applications used in schools over here.
> >
> > I read through quite a few of the old blueprints in Launchpad and
> > collected them in a table here. Unfortunately most of the blueprints
> > have been just collecting dust for years. There's also an overview
> image
> > of our authentication setups:
> >
> > http://www.opinsys.fi/en/itch-for-better-user-management-in-ubuntu
> >
> >
> > One of the main differences in our new tools compared to old plans
> is
> > the ability to handle many school districts with many schools within
> a
> > single installation. This supports our model where every school has
> > their own people taking care of user accounts, but they necessarily
> > don't even know what LDAP is.
> >
> > The plan was to have the code out by now, but it'll still take some
> days
> > before we get to that. This is something that we'll be working on
> during
> > the next months and we can spend time on getting things in Ubuntu
> also.
> >
> >
> > As I've been going through the setup process, I've been writing in
> the
> > blog about it:
> >
> > http://www.opinsys.fi/en/setting-up-openldap-on-ubuntu-10-04-alpha2
> >
> >
> > Veli-Matti
> >
> >
> > --
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> > edubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com
> > Modify settings or unsubscribe at:
> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/edubuntu-devel
>
>
> __________________________________________________ ____________________
> The New Busy think 9 to 5 is a cute idea. Combine multiple calendars
> with Hotmail. Get busy.



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Old 04-21-2010, 09:07 PM
Gavin McCullagh
 
Default My ideas for Ubuntu 10.10 (maverick)

Hi,

On Tue, 20 Apr 2010, Jonathan Carter (highvoltage) wrote:

> The only drawback I can think of is that we wouldn't be able to supply
> Moodle in a server meta-package, but perhaps there could be some kind of
> moodle-tools package that would download and set it up (perhaps with
> some cron jobs or something that could do some semi-automatic updating).

That's a very good idea.

Gavin


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Old 04-22-2010, 02:12 AM
Vikram Dhillon
 
Default My ideas for Ubuntu 10.10 (maverick)

Hi Jonathan
First off apologies for not being active recently, I
have been swamped with school work and my exams are coming up so I
need to work on that I can take on maintaining moodle if we still
need it. What do you say?

On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 6:03 AM, Jonathan Carter (highvoltage)
<jonathan@ubuntu.com> wrote:
> Hi Jordan
>
> On 19/04/2010 18:39, Jordan Mantha wrote:
>>> Moodle's maintenance isn't currently that great, imho we should probably
>>> catch up on what's been going on in Debian and merge efforts there.
>>
>> The last emails I got from the Moodle maintainers in Debian was that
>> the were considering orphaning it. In the past with these kinds of PHP
>> web apps (wordpress, drupal, moodle, etc.) I've wondering if the best
>> thing to do is not package them but provide good documentation
>> instead. They seem constantly out of date and quite difficult to
>> maintain. It's too bad too because Moodle is such a useful app for
>> people
>
> Yep, I checked last night and the package has indeed been orphaned. I
> think you have a very good point, especially considering that some of
> these php web apps such as Wordpress can be updated from within the app
> (probably faster than any packager could get it into an archive).
>
> The only drawback I can think of is that we wouldn't be able to supply
> Moodle in a server meta-package, but perhaps there could be some kind of
> moodle-tools package that would download and set it up (perhaps with
> some cron jobs or something that could do some semi-automatic updating).
>
> -Jonathan
>
> --
> edubuntu-devel mailing list
> edubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com
> Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/edubuntu-devel
>



--
Regards,
Vikram Dhillon

~~~
There are lots of Linux users who don't care how the kernel works, but
only want to use it. That is a tribute to how good Linux is.
-- Linus Torvalds

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