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-   -   Bible Study software inclusion in Edubuntu seeds (http://www.linux-archive.org/edubuntu-development/312504-bible-study-software-inclusion-edubuntu-seeds.html)

Dmitrijs Ledkovs 01-21-2010 12:07 AM

Bible Study software inclusion in Edubuntu seeds
 
Hello all

The following packages are available in Ubuntu/Debian. Xiphos,
BibleTime, Bibledit and Biblemermorizer. Along with a dependency on
libsword to processing electronic bibles and similar texts. Also
libsword includes command line tools for bible reading, search &
installing with possobility to modify and run as PHP scripts.

I would like to propose Xiphos for inclusion into Gtk seed and
BibleTime into KDE seed.

Both are fully fledged bible study tools which are very mature and
have a lot of users.

Libsword will be pulled as a dependency.

Bibledit and Biblememorizer are smaller in scrope apps. They are
helper tools for translating/digitalizing bibles and facilitating
memorizing Scriptures.

Along with sword, CrossWire Bible Society publishes bibles and similar
texts on their ftp mirrors. All of which is in public domain & freely
distributable (a bit like gutenberd) but the format used is the one
libsword understands. Some of these texts are in the archive as well,
and both front-ends can install modules from the internet into
~/.sword such that you can use either frontend to read your bibles.

I do understand the religion is a touchy subject and might not be
appropriate for global audience of Edubuntu but I hope that these
packages can be recognized and included in Edubuntu seeds....

Thanks for your attention and I'll be glad to answer any question.

References:

https://edge.launchpad.net/~pkgcrosswire/+maintained-packages
http://xiphos.org/
http://www.bibletime.info/
http://www.crosswire.org/sword/index.jsp
http://sites.google.com/site/bibledit/
http://biblememorizer.sourceforge.net/

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With best regards


Dmitrijs Ledkovs (for short Dima),
Ледков Дмитрий Юрьевич

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Scott Balneaves 01-21-2010 01:53 AM

Bible Study software inclusion in Edubuntu seeds
 
On Thu, Jan 21, 2010 at 01:07:14AM +0000, Dmitrijs Ledkovs wrote:

> I would like to propose Xiphos for inclusion into Gtk seed and
> BibleTime into KDE seed.

...

> I do understand the religion is a touchy subject and might not be
> appropriate for global audience of Edubuntu but I hope that these
> packages can be recognized and included in Edubuntu seeds....

While I understand the desire to want this to happen, I think it sets a
dangerous precedent for Edubuntu, and one which starts down a slippery slope.

If we include Bible study software on the DVD, then that also means we should
include zekr (Quranic Study Tool). What about a Satanic Bible reader? Can we
say no to that? Atheists deserve equal time too, and I'm sure the Church of
Scientology would love the opportunity to put some educational material on the
DVD!

This may limit some countries into which the Edubuntu DVD may be imported,
because of religious reasons. Currently, I'm aware of no reason why Edubuntu
may not be in any country, as at the moment, it's Secular.

What this eventually devolves into is the Edubuntu Council making judgement
calls on what constitute 'valid' religions, and what aren't.

I'm 100% in favour of them being in the archive for anyone to install. Shipping
them on the DVD makes a statement of preference that's outside our goals, I
think.

I'm speaking for myself here, lets see what the rest of the council has to say.
It could certainly be discussed at a council meeting, which all may attend.

Cheers,
Scott

--
Scott L. Balneaves | Kindness is a language which the deaf can hear
Systems Department | and the blind can read.
Legal Aid Manitoba | -- Mark Twain

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Ben Francis 01-21-2010 01:58 AM

Bible Study software inclusion in Edubuntu seeds
 
Well said, Scott. Secular is the way to go.


On Wed, Jan 20, 2010 at 9:53 PM, Scott Balneaves <sbalneav@legalaid.mb.ca> wrote:


On Thu, Jan 21, 2010 at 01:07:14AM +0000, Dmitrijs Ledkovs wrote:

> I would like to propose Xiphos for inclusion into Gtk seed and
> BibleTime into KDE seed.

...


> I do understand the religion is a touchy subject and might not be
> appropriate for global audience of Edubuntu but I hope that these
> packages can be recognized and included in Edubuntu seeds....


While I understand the desire to want this to happen, I think it sets a
dangerous precedent for Edubuntu, and one which starts down a slippery slope.

If we include Bible study software on the DVD, then that also means we should

include zekr (Quranic Study Tool). *What about a Satanic Bible reader? *Can we
say no to that? *Atheists deserve equal time too, and I'm sure the Church of
Scientology would love the opportunity to put some educational material on the

DVD!

This may limit some countries into which the Edubuntu DVD may be imported,
because of religious reasons. *Currently, I'm aware of no reason why Edubuntu
may not be in any country, as at the moment, it's Secular.


What this eventually devolves into is the Edubuntu Council making judgement
calls on what constitute 'valid' religions, and what aren't.

I'm 100% in favour of them being in the archive for anyone to install. *Shipping

them on the DVD makes a statement of preference that's outside our goals, I
think.

I'm speaking for myself here, lets see what the rest of the council has to say.
It could certainly be discussed at a council meeting, which all may attend.


Cheers,
Scott

--
Scott L. Balneaves | Kindness is a language which the deaf can hear
Systems Department | and the blind can read.
Legal Aid Manitoba | * * -- Mark Twain




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Richard JOHNSON 01-21-2010 02:16 AM

Bible Study software inclusion in Edubuntu seeds
 
On Wed, Jan 20, 2010 at 08:53:12PM -0600, Scott Balneaves wrote:
> On Thu, Jan 21, 2010 at 01:07:14AM +0000, Dmitrijs Ledkovs wrote:
>
> > I would like to propose Xiphos for inclusion into Gtk seed and
> > BibleTime into KDE seed.
>
> ...
>
> > I do understand the religion is a touchy subject and might not be
> > appropriate for global audience of Edubuntu but I hope that these
> > packages can be recognized and included in Edubuntu seeds....
>
> While I understand the desire to want this to happen, I think it sets a
> dangerous precedent for Edubuntu, and one which starts down a slippery slope.
>
> If we include Bible study software on the DVD, then that also means we should
> include zekr (Quranic Study Tool). What about a Satanic Bible reader? Can we
> say no to that? Atheists deserve equal time too, and I'm sure the Church of
> Scientology would love the opportunity to put some educational material on the
> DVD!
>
> This may limit some countries into which the Edubuntu DVD may be imported,
> because of religious reasons. Currently, I'm aware of no reason why Edubuntu
> may not be in any country, as at the moment, it's Secular.
>
> What this eventually devolves into is the Edubuntu Council making judgement
> calls on what constitute 'valid' religions, and what aren't.
>
> I'm 100% in favour of them being in the archive for anyone to install. Shipping
> them on the DVD makes a statement of preference that's outside our goals, I
> think.
>
> I'm speaking for myself here, lets see what the rest of the council has to say.
> It could certainly be discussed at a council meeting, which all may attend.

As a Christian myself, I couldn't have said it any better myself. There
were religion-specific Ubuntu distros, though I don't know their status
anymore. I worked on a project called Ichthux which was a Kubuntu
derivative for Christians.

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Stphane Graber 01-21-2010 02:16 AM

Bible Study software inclusion in Edubuntu seeds
 
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Scott Balneaves wrote:
> On Thu, Jan 21, 2010 at 01:07:14AM +0000, Dmitrijs Ledkovs wrote:
>
>> I would like to propose Xiphos for inclusion into Gtk seed and
>> BibleTime into KDE seed.
>
> ...
>
>> I do understand the religion is a touchy subject and might not be
>> appropriate for global audience of Edubuntu but I hope that these
>> packages can be recognized and included in Edubuntu seeds....
>
> While I understand the desire to want this to happen, I think it sets a
> dangerous precedent for Edubuntu, and one which starts down a slippery slope.
>
> If we include Bible study software on the DVD, then that also means we should
> include zekr (Quranic Study Tool). What about a Satanic Bible reader? Can we
> say no to that? Atheists deserve equal time too, and I'm sure the Church of
> Scientology would love the opportunity to put some educational material on the
> DVD!
>
> This may limit some countries into which the Edubuntu DVD may be imported,
> because of religious reasons. Currently, I'm aware of no reason why Edubuntu
> may not be in any country, as at the moment, it's Secular.
>
> What this eventually devolves into is the Edubuntu Council making judgement
> calls on what constitute 'valid' religions, and what aren't.
>
> I'm 100% in favour of them being in the archive for anyone to install. Shipping
> them on the DVD makes a statement of preference that's outside our goals, I
> think.
>
> I'm speaking for myself here, lets see what the rest of the council has to say.
> It could certainly be discussed at a council meeting, which all may attend.
>
> Cheers,
> Scott

Hello Dmitrijs,

I perfectly agree with Scott's opinion on the question as well as his
concerns about Edubuntu not being exportable to some countries if we do
it. I believe it's in Edubuntu's interest to remain Secular.

All these packages are of course available to the user through Ubuntu's
archive and only take a few minutes to install.

As Scott pointed out, we're perfectly fine with discussing that at one
of our meetings (on Wednesdays at 19:00 UTC) if you want to.


- --
Stphane Graber
Ubuntu developer
http://www.ubuntu.com
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Michael 01-21-2010 02:19 AM

Bible Study software inclusion in Edubuntu seeds
 
I would also point out that there is (or was) an Ubuntu Christian
Edition that already ships with these programs, plus a content filter
and religious artwork.

--
Michael Hall
mhall@lakeland.net


On Wed, 2010-01-20 at 20:53 -0600, Scott Balneaves wrote:
> On Thu, Jan 21, 2010 at 01:07:14AM +0000, Dmitrijs Ledkovs wrote:
>
> > I would like to propose Xiphos for inclusion into Gtk seed and
> > BibleTime into KDE seed.
>
> ...
>
> > I do understand the religion is a touchy subject and might not be
> > appropriate for global audience of Edubuntu but I hope that these
> > packages can be recognized and included in Edubuntu seeds....
>
> While I understand the desire to want this to happen, I think it sets a
> dangerous precedent for Edubuntu, and one which starts down a slippery slope.
>
> If we include Bible study software on the DVD, then that also means we should
> include zekr (Quranic Study Tool). What about a Satanic Bible reader? Can we
> say no to that? Atheists deserve equal time too, and I'm sure the Church of
> Scientology would love the opportunity to put some educational material on the
> DVD!
>
> This may limit some countries into which the Edubuntu DVD may be imported,
> because of religious reasons. Currently, I'm aware of no reason why Edubuntu
> may not be in any country, as at the moment, it's Secular.
>
> What this eventually devolves into is the Edubuntu Council making judgement
> calls on what constitute 'valid' religions, and what aren't.
>
> I'm 100% in favour of them being in the archive for anyone to install. Shipping
> them on the DVD makes a statement of preference that's outside our goals, I
> think.
>
> I'm speaking for myself here, lets see what the rest of the council has to say.
> It could certainly be discussed at a council meeting, which all may attend.
>
> Cheers,
> Scott
>
> --
> Scott L. Balneaves | Kindness is a language which the deaf can hear
> Systems Department | and the blind can read.
> Legal Aid Manitoba | -- Mark Twain
>


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Dmitrijs Ledkovs 01-21-2010 02:25 AM

Bible Study software inclusion in Edubuntu seeds
 
Thank you all for your input!!! =)

Your statement does make sense. I just wanted to try in case it was a
good idea. I see how it is not.

There is "UbuntuCE - Christian Edition" which is PPA maintain by my
team + extra stuff from their repository.

Thank you for considering this.


--
With best regards


Dmitrijs Ledkovs (for short Dima),
Ледков Дмитрий Юрьевич

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Scott Balneaves 01-21-2010 02:32 AM

Bible Study software inclusion in Edubuntu seeds
 
On Thu, Jan 21, 2010 at 03:25:13AM +0000, Dmitrijs Ledkovs wrote:
> Thank you all for your input!!! =)
>
> Your statement does make sense. I just wanted to try in case it was a
> good idea. I see how it is not.
>
> There is "UbuntuCE - Christian Edition" which is PPA maintain by my
> team + extra stuff from their repository.
>
> Thank you for considering this.

We're currently in the channel talking about this and Crimsun and nixternal
suggested that metapackages for ease-of-post-install customization might be a
good idea, and I concurr.

if there were edubuntu-edu-christian, edubuntu-edu-judaism,
edubuntu-edu-muslim, etc., metapackages, then people looking for easy post
install work could just install Edubuntu, then apt-get install the desired
metapackage, and voila, a 1-step customization.

Cheers,
Scott

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Systems Department | but they will never replace kisses and punches.
Legal Aid Manitoba | -- Ashleigh Brilliant

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Dmitrijs Ledkovs 01-21-2010 03:44 AM

Bible Study software inclusion in Edubuntu seeds
 
2010/1/21 Scott Balneaves <sbalneav@legalaid.mb.ca>:
> On Thu, Jan 21, 2010 at 03:25:13AM +0000, Dmitrijs Ledkovs wrote:
>> Thank you all for your input!!! =)
>>
>> Your statement does make sense. I just wanted to try in case it was a
>> good idea. I see how it is not.
>>
>> There is "UbuntuCE - Christian Edition" which is PPA maintain by my
>> team + extra stuff from their repository.
>>
>> Thank you for considering this.
>
> We're currently in the channel talking about this and Crimsun and nixternal
> suggested that metapackages for ease-of-post-install customization might be a
> good idea, and I concurr.
>
> if there were *edubuntu-edu-christian, edubuntu-edu-judaism,
> edubuntu-edu-muslim, etc., metapackages, then people looking for easy post
> install work could just install Edubuntu, then apt-get install the desired
> metapackage, and voila, a 1-step customization.
>
> Cheers,
> Scott
>

Well the bug is still there against the edubuntu-meta package, except
for I'm not aware of how many religious apps & content there are for
all the other religions. So if you do decide to go this route and
investigate other edubuntu-religion-* meta's please ping me or
~pkgcrosswire for the christian flavour.

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With best regards


Dmitrijs Ledkovs (for short Dima),
Ледков Дмитрий Юрьевич

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/ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments

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Jordan Erickson 01-21-2010 04:52 AM

Bible Study software inclusion in Edubuntu seeds
 
Scott Balneaves wrote:
*snippity*

> I'm 100% in favour of them being in the archive for anyone to install. Shipping
> them on the DVD makes a statement of preference that's outside our goals, I
> think.
>
> I'm speaking for myself here, lets see what the rest of the council has to say.
> It could certainly be discussed at a council meeting, which all may attend.

Ditto. Very well said.


- Jordan

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