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Old 01-05-2009, 11:39 AM
"David Van Assche"
 
Default replacement for screem

We've been talking a bit about replacing screem for a better
html/php/javascript editor. There are various choices that come to
mind, and it probably makes sense to vote on here about which would be
the best to support. In my experience there are 2 types of editors
that people are interested in, the WYSIWYG kind, and the coder/hacker
type. The first type is usually wanted by general web designers, and
the second for developers. I think edubuntu, as it is aimed at schools
should really have a nice WYSIWYG editor, but the only one that is
kind of usable right now is kompozer, and to me it seems buggy as
hell. Bluefish would be my vote for a developer based editor, but it
may be too complex for schools. On the other hand, if we think of
these editors as different animals, then we might be able to choose
one which is WYSIWYG based, and the other code based... What are
people's thoughts?

Some possible choices include Quanta Plus, Kompozer, Bluefish, Amaya,
and Sea Monkey.

kind Regards,
David Van Assche

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Old 01-05-2009, 11:25 PM
nigel barker
 
Default replacement for screem

I am currently using both kompozer and bluefish. I tried amaya for a
while, but kids struggled with it.
We use kompozer from grade 4 up. I find it less buggy than Nvu was, and
kids can install it at home (win or mac).
We use bluefish from grade 9 up.


nigel


David Van Assche wrote:
> We've been talking a bit about replacing screem for a better
> html/php/javascript editor. There are various choices that come to
> mind, and it probably makes sense to vote on here about which would be
> the best to support. In my experience there are 2 types of editors
> that people are interested in, the WYSIWYG kind, and the coder/hacker
> type. The first type is usually wanted by general web designers, and
> the second for developers. I think edubuntu, as it is aimed at schools
> should really have a nice WYSIWYG editor, but the only one that is
> kind of usable right now is kompozer, and to me it seems buggy as
> hell. Bluefish would be my vote for a developer based editor, but it
> may be too complex for schools. On the other hand, if we think of
> these editors as different animals, then we might be able to choose
> one which is WYSIWYG based, and the other code based... What are
> people's thoughts?
>
> Some possible choices include Quanta Plus, Kompozer, Bluefish, Amaya,
> and Sea Monkey.
>
> kind Regards,
> David Van Assche
>
>

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Old 01-06-2009, 03:50 PM
"David Van Assche"
 
Default replacement for screem

yeah, those are my thoughts and experiences as well. Teaching kompozer
is far easier and more logical taking web design as a full subject
comprised of both programming and design. At a younger age, its
doubtful they'd be playing with php/perl/ruby/whatever. The other
option is wine+dreamweaver, but that's a proprietary solution (albeit
the best one.)

Taking this a bit further, here's a list of other apps that I think
might have a future in edubuntu. (Be it by means of MIR or getting
edubuntu to accept universe apps.) It by no means they should be
included, I just wanted to open a discussion about them. Feel free to
add to them:

Squeak
Blender
Bluefish
Stopmotion
Celestia
Gnu Solfege - Music training
kgeography - already in main
klettres - already in main
Linux Letters and Numbers
Stellarium
Freeciv
gbrainy
pyscrabble
salasaga - create e learning objects, output flash...
pdfeditor
kivio
Labyrinth - Mind map
Audacity
Jokosher

kind Regards,
David Van Assche

On Tue, Jan 6, 2009 at 1:25 AM, nigel barker <tech@hiroshima-is.ac.jp> wrote:
> I am currently using both kompozer and bluefish. I tried amaya for a while,
> but kids struggled with it.
> We use kompozer from grade 4 up. I find it less buggy than Nvu was, and kids
> can install it at home (win or mac).
> We use bluefish from grade 9 up.
>
>
> nigel
>
>
> David Van Assche wrote:
>>
>> We've been talking a bit about replacing screem for a better
>> html/php/javascript editor. There are various choices that come to
>> mind, and it probably makes sense to vote on here about which would be
>> the best to support. In my experience there are 2 types of editors
>> that people are interested in, the WYSIWYG kind, and the coder/hacker
>> type. The first type is usually wanted by general web designers, and
>> the second for developers. I think edubuntu, as it is aimed at schools
>> should really have a nice WYSIWYG editor, but the only one that is
>> kind of usable right now is kompozer, and to me it seems buggy as
>> hell. Bluefish would be my vote for a developer based editor, but it
>> may be too complex for schools. On the other hand, if we think of
>> these editors as different animals, then we might be able to choose
>> one which is WYSIWYG based, and the other code based... What are
>> people's thoughts?
>>
>> Some possible choices include Quanta Plus, Kompozer, Bluefish, Amaya,
>> and Sea Monkey.
>>
>> kind Regards,
>> David Van Assche
>>
>>
>

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Old 01-14-2009, 03:30 PM
"Jordan Mantha"
 
Default replacement for screem

On Tue, Jan 6, 2009 at 8:50 AM, David Van Assche <dvanassche@gmail.com> wrote:
> yeah, those are my thoughts and experiences as well. Teaching kompozer
> is far easier and more logical taking web design as a full subject
> comprised of both programming and design. At a younger age, its
> doubtful they'd be playing with php/perl/ruby/whatever. The other
> option is wine+dreamweaver, but that's a proprietary solution (albeit
> the best one.)

If you had to choose between kompozer and quanta what would you pick?

> Taking this a bit further, here's a list of other apps that I think
> might have a future in edubuntu. (Be it by means of MIR or getting
> edubuntu to accept universe apps.) It by no means they should be
> included, I just wanted to open a discussion about them. Feel free to
> add to them:

I've got my own little list at:
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JordanMantha/EdubuntuMIRCandidates
You've added some good thoughts here. We should probably narrow our
focus down to a handful of the best apps that compliment what we've
already got in Main (i.e. don't duplicate but are filling out the
existing selection). Now that we plan to have Universe app bundles as
well shouldn't feel so much pressure to move everything into Main. We
also need to start putting together our lists for the Universe app
bundles (Preschoo, Primary, Secondary, Tertiary).

> Squeak
We need to find some people who are willing to work with Squeak. So
far I've been the only person maintaining it and I don't use it nor
Smalltalk so I really feel someone better able to test, etc. should be
looking after it. We can, I think, basically take Debian's package
here but it should be tested.

> Blender
This is a good one to look at. It looks like it'd take bringing in a
few libs to Main but not too awful perhaps. I'm a little concerned
about stepping on Ubuntu Studio's toes on it though. Right now since
it's in Universe any of their MOTUs can upload but if we bring it into
Main we'd severely limit the number of people who can upload. Perhaps
for Jaunty we might just keep it in a Universe app bundle?

> Bluefish
Yeah, let's get this one.

> Stopmotion
Same situation as with blender but perhaps easier to get into Main.

> Celestia
Has what looks to be some Gtk1 dependencies which are a no-no for
Main. Perhaps we could fix that.

> Gnu Solfege - Music training
Needs JACK and timidity, non-trivial.

> kgeography - already in main
> klettres - already in main
These have been dropped/replaced in KDE 4

> Linux Letters and Numbers
Last upload in Debian was 2006-11-29. While it's not got any non-Main
deps or open bugs I wonder if it would be wise to put a dead project
in Main.

> Stellarium
This one looks straightforward and I'd like to see this one make it.
It's got 11 open bugs in Ubuntu, including some crashers. We'd need to
look into those.

> Freeciv
Don't have any immediate objections. I'm not sure if it would be
widely desired in educational settings. Perhaps we can get some
feedback from edubuntu-users on that.

> gbrainy
Yeah, looks like a great idea.

> pyscrabble
Looks promising. Has a few crasher bugs and will require getting
pygame into Main, which isn't bad.

> salasaga - create e learning objects, output flash...
Interesting idea. It looks pretty new, the homepage says it's alpha
software. Also the person who maintains it in Debian just became a
MOTU, I'd hate to take away his ability to upload it just now. I think
it'd be a good candidate for a Universe app bundle.

> pdfeditor
Do you mean pdfedit? If so then it's possible but it seems like it's
not very educational-user friendly

> kivio
This is already in Main (nice) but requires koffice-libs. It would be
great for the edubuntu-desktop-kde metapackage though.

> Labyrinth - Mind map
freemind, labyrinth, and vym are all mind mapping tools that we could
go for. freemind and vym seem more popular based on popcon results,
which would be better for educational settings?

> Audacity
Would need JACK in Main and would need to be updated to use wxgtk 2.8
I think. Also used by Ubuntu Studio. perhaps best as Universe app
bundle.

> Jokosher
Looks like a good option. Only needs gnonlin to be brought in to Main
as well. It's got 15 open bugs, a number of crashers, but I think it's
pretty popular.

Thanks a lot for looking into these.

-Jordan

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Old 01-14-2009, 10:59 PM
nigel barker
 
Default replacement for screem

>
>> Freeciv
>>
> Don't have any immediate objections. I'm not sure if it would be
> widely desired in educational settings. Perhaps we can get some
> feedback from edubuntu-users on that.
>

I wouldn't want this in my school, and its one of the reasons I don't
give out the Open Education Disc
>
> Labyrinth - Mind map
>
> freemind, labyrinth, and vym are all mind mapping tools that we could
> go for. freemind and vym seem more popular based on popcon results,
> which would be better for educational settings?
>

We use vym, but it has file format issues between versions, so that a
map I created in school could be worked on at home, then when I brought
it back to school it wouldn't open. Image how I felt when that happened.
>> Audacity
>>
> Would need JACK in Main and would need to be updated to use wxgtk 2.8
> I think. Also used by Ubuntu Studio. perhaps best as Universe app
> bundle.
>
We use it for podcasts. Perhaps increasingly valuable.


nigel

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Old 01-14-2009, 11:31 PM
"David Van Assche"
 
Default replacement for screem

Yeah, I was mainly thinking about universe when creating this list,
but whatever we can MIR is of course beneficial. Quanta pulls in an
unbelievable amount of dependencies (202mb!), mostly kde related
stuff, but it seems much too bloated. I dont have much experience
running the mind map apps, but I know they are really important in
schools and universities today. We should get some feedback from
users, as to which is preferrable.

kind Regards,
David Van Assche

On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 5:30 PM, Jordan Mantha <laserjock@ubuntu.com> wrote:
> On Tue, Jan 6, 2009 at 8:50 AM, David Van Assche <dvanassche@gmail.com> wrote:
>> yeah, those are my thoughts and experiences as well. Teaching kompozer
>> is far easier and more logical taking web design as a full subject
>> comprised of both programming and design. At a younger age, its
>> doubtful they'd be playing with php/perl/ruby/whatever. The other
>> option is wine+dreamweaver, but that's a proprietary solution (albeit
>> the best one.)
>
> If you had to choose between kompozer and quanta what would you pick?
>
>> Taking this a bit further, here's a list of other apps that I think
>> might have a future in edubuntu. (Be it by means of MIR or getting
>> edubuntu to accept universe apps.) It by no means they should be
>> included, I just wanted to open a discussion about them. Feel free to
>> add to them:
>
> I've got my own little list at:
> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JordanMantha/EdubuntuMIRCandidates
> You've added some good thoughts here. We should probably narrow our
> focus down to a handful of the best apps that compliment what we've
> already got in Main (i.e. don't duplicate but are filling out the
> existing selection). Now that we plan to have Universe app bundles as
> well shouldn't feel so much pressure to move everything into Main. We
> also need to start putting together our lists for the Universe app
> bundles (Preschoo, Primary, Secondary, Tertiary).
>
>> Squeak
> We need to find some people who are willing to work with Squeak. So
> far I've been the only person maintaining it and I don't use it nor
> Smalltalk so I really feel someone better able to test, etc. should be
> looking after it. We can, I think, basically take Debian's package
> here but it should be tested.
>
>> Blender
> This is a good one to look at. It looks like it'd take bringing in a
> few libs to Main but not too awful perhaps. I'm a little concerned
> about stepping on Ubuntu Studio's toes on it though. Right now since
> it's in Universe any of their MOTUs can upload but if we bring it into
> Main we'd severely limit the number of people who can upload. Perhaps
> for Jaunty we might just keep it in a Universe app bundle?
>
>> Bluefish
> Yeah, let's get this one.
>
>> Stopmotion
> Same situation as with blender but perhaps easier to get into Main.
>
>> Celestia
> Has what looks to be some Gtk1 dependencies which are a no-no for
> Main. Perhaps we could fix that.
>
>> Gnu Solfege - Music training
> Needs JACK and timidity, non-trivial.
>
>> kgeography - already in main
>> klettres - already in main
> These have been dropped/replaced in KDE 4
>
>> Linux Letters and Numbers
> Last upload in Debian was 2006-11-29. While it's not got any non-Main
> deps or open bugs I wonder if it would be wise to put a dead project
> in Main.
>
>> Stellarium
> This one looks straightforward and I'd like to see this one make it.
> It's got 11 open bugs in Ubuntu, including some crashers. We'd need to
> look into those.
>
>> Freeciv
> Don't have any immediate objections. I'm not sure if it would be
> widely desired in educational settings. Perhaps we can get some
> feedback from edubuntu-users on that.
>
>> gbrainy
> Yeah, looks like a great idea.
>
>> pyscrabble
> Looks promising. Has a few crasher bugs and will require getting
> pygame into Main, which isn't bad.
>
>> salasaga - create e learning objects, output flash...
> Interesting idea. It looks pretty new, the homepage says it's alpha
> software. Also the person who maintains it in Debian just became a
> MOTU, I'd hate to take away his ability to upload it just now. I think
> it'd be a good candidate for a Universe app bundle.
>
>> pdfeditor
> Do you mean pdfedit? If so then it's possible but it seems like it's
> not very educational-user friendly
>
>> kivio
> This is already in Main (nice) but requires koffice-libs. It would be
> great for the edubuntu-desktop-kde metapackage though.
>
>> Labyrinth - Mind map
> freemind, labyrinth, and vym are all mind mapping tools that we could
> go for. freemind and vym seem more popular based on popcon results,
> which would be better for educational settings?
>
>> Audacity
> Would need JACK in Main and would need to be updated to use wxgtk 2.8
> I think. Also used by Ubuntu Studio. perhaps best as Universe app
> bundle.
>
>> Jokosher
> Looks like a good option. Only needs gnonlin to be brought in to Main
> as well. It's got 15 open bugs, a number of crashers, but I think it's
> pretty popular.
>
> Thanks a lot for looking into these.
>
> -Jordan
>
> --
> edubuntu-devel mailing list
> edubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com
> Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/edubuntu-devel
>

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