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Old 10-12-2008, 07:17 PM
"Andrés Monroy-Hernández"
 
Default Creating deb package of MIT's programming environment for kids (Squeak based)

The source for the plugins is at http://scratch.mit.edu/pages/source

Is there a way someone could help us build a package that we can
release on our website before the next Cd is built?

On 10/12/08, Caroline Ford <caroline.ford.work@googlemail.com> wrote:
> 2008/10/12 Andrés Monroy-Hernández <andres.mh@andresmh.com>:
>> I don't think we need a Smalltalk guru just someone who can put
>> together the files into a ubuntu package.
>>
>> We have released the source code of our previous version here:
>> http://scratch.mit.edu/pages/source but we have not cleaned out the
>> code of the latest version yet. In any case, the source code does not
>> include the logo and the sharing capabilities so using the .image file
>> would be the best.
>>
>> Stefan is right though, the .image file is what you need. The .image
>> is kind of like a .jar in Java.
>
> Hopefully someone will be able to look at it after the release of
> intrepid at the end of the month. Please feel free to add extra info
> to the bug.
>
> Thanks again
>
> Caroline
>
> (We'd also welcome suggestions of good free education software that we
> don't currently have packaged).
>

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Old 10-12-2008, 08:15 PM
"Caroline Ford"
 
Default Creating deb package of MIT's programming environment for kids (Squeak based)

2008/10/12 Andrés Monroy-Hernández <andres.mh@andresmh.com>:
> The source for the plugins is at http://scratch.mit.edu/pages/source
>
> Is there a way someone could help us build a package that we can
> release on our website before the next Cd is built?

Once the package is made you can distribute, you don't need to wait
until the CD is out.

Caroline

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Old 10-12-2008, 09:07 PM
"Andrés Monroy-Hernández"
 
Default Creating deb package of MIT's programming environment for kids (Squeak based)

That's great. Thanks a lot to both of you for the quick response. It
will be great to have Scratch on Edubuntu!

On Sun, Oct 12, 2008 at 4:15 PM, Caroline Ford
<caroline.ford.work@googlemail.com> wrote:
> 2008/10/12 Andrés Monroy-Hernández <andres.mh@andresmh.com>:
>> The source for the plugins is at http://scratch.mit.edu/pages/source
>>
>> Is there a way someone could help us build a package that we can
>> release on our website before the next Cd is built?
>
> Once the package is made you can distribute, you don't need to wait
> until the CD is out.
>
> Caroline
>



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Old 10-13-2008, 03:44 AM
"Tom Hoffman"
 
Default Creating deb package of MIT's programming environment for kids (Squeak based)

On Sun, Oct 12, 2008 at 11:20 AM, Caroline Ford
<caroline.ford.work@googlemail.com> wrote:
> 2008/10/12 Andrés Monroy-Hernández <andres.mh@andresmh.com>:
>> Dear edubuntu developers,
>>
>> We are looking for volunteers to help us create a package of the
>> Scratch educational programming environment <http://scratch.mit.edu>
>> for Ubuntu in general and Edubuntu in particular. The current
>> installers (Win/Mac) come with all the necessary elements needed to
>> run Scratch (Squeak, some DLLs for Windows) as well as sample
>> projects and an image+sound library. We would like to have the
>> equivalent for Ubuntu.
>>
>
> I see that it's under Creative Commons BY-SA which is fine.

Activities that are uploaded to the Scratch site are considered to be
under a BY-SA license, although that's pretty much just handwaving
from a legal standpoint, particularly since children in the US at
least cannot relicense their own work without parental consent.

More importantly, the license for the "Scratch Source Code" at
http://scratch.mit.edu/pages/source is a non-commercial, thus non-free
non-OSI compliant license, which can't be in Edubuntu.

I'm 99.9% certain they used to have a BSD-style license so maybe you
can get an earlier copy of the image.

Scratch development was primarily funded by an National Science
Foundation grant; in the original proposal they promised to make it an
open source project. Their implementation in this regard has been a
complete and utter mess, and quite frankly, an insult to the open
source in education community.

--Tom

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Old 10-13-2008, 07:17 AM
"Caroline Ford"
 
Default Creating deb package of MIT's programming environment for kids (Squeak based)

2008/10/13 Tom Hoffman <tom.hoffman@gmail.com>:
> On Sun, Oct 12, 2008 at 11:20 AM, Caroline Ford
> <caroline.ford.work@googlemail.com> wrote:
>> 2008/10/12 Andrés Monroy-Hernández <andres.mh@andresmh.com>:
>>> Dear edubuntu developers,
>>>
>>> We are looking for volunteers to help us create a package of the
>>> Scratch educational programming environment <http://scratch.mit.edu>
>>> for Ubuntu in general and Edubuntu in particular. The current
>>> installers (Win/Mac) come with all the necessary elements needed to
>>> run Scratch (Squeak, some DLLs for Windows) as well as sample
>>> projects and an image+sound library. We would like to have the
>>> equivalent for Ubuntu.
>>>
>>
>> I see that it's under Creative Commons BY-SA which is fine.
>
> Activities that are uploaded to the Scratch site are considered to be
> under a BY-SA license, although that's pretty much just handwaving
> from a legal standpoint, particularly since children in the US at
> least cannot relicense their own work without parental consent.

I read it as everything on that site, including the downloads. I see
from the sourcecode page that I was wrong.

> More importantly, the license for the "Scratch Source Code" at
> http://scratch.mit.edu/pages/source is a non-commercial, thus non-free
> non-OSI compliant license, which can't be in Edubuntu.

Yes totally. We can't package or distribute it under that license.

> I'm 99.9% certain they used to have a BSD-style license so maybe you
> can get an earlier copy of the image.

Can anyone find it?

"The Scratch source code license allows you to distribute derivative
works based on the Scratch source code for non-commercial uses subject
to the following restrictions:"

I'll amend the bug to point out that we can't package it.

Caroline

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Old 10-13-2008, 07:26 AM
"Caroline Ford"
 
Default Creating deb package of MIT's programming environment for kids (Squeak based)

> I'm 99.9% certain they used to have a BSD-style license so maybe you
> can get an earlier copy of the image.

I've closed the bug unless anyone can find the BSD licensed version.

We don't package non-free software.

Caroline

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Old 10-13-2008, 03:30 PM
"Jordan Mantha"
 
Default Creating deb package of MIT's programming environment for kids (Squeak based)

On Mon, Oct 13, 2008 at 12:26 AM, Caroline Ford
<caroline.ford.work@googlemail.com> wrote:
>> I'm 99.9% certain they used to have a BSD-style license so maybe you
>> can get an earlier copy of the image.
>
> I've closed the bug unless anyone can find the BSD licensed version.
>
> We don't package non-free software.

Just a little correction here. We do package non-free software, we
just put it in the Multiverse repository and can't distribute it on
the Edubuntu CD. Note that currently Squeak itself is non-free and in
Multiverse so Scratch would have to go there anyway until we have a
free Squeak (Debian's Squeak VM is free apparently, but it's a svn
snapshot, completely different packaging, and I didn't have time in
Hardy to work out all the bugs of switching).

I've been the unofficial squeak maintainer for a couple years, but I
don't use it at all and there are a lot of peculiarities to Squeak,
enough that I really think a person who uses and knows squeak should
be maintaining it. It's a relatively important educational subclass of
packages since OLPC is using it and there are projects such as
Squeakland and Scratch that would be great to get to educators.
Perhaps we can find somebody who's using Ubuntu (of any kind) and
Squeak who would be willing to learn some packaging. I'd be happy to
help get them going, but unless someone steps forward I doubt I'm
going to have time to do much with squeak.

-Jordan

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Old 10-13-2008, 03:53 PM
"Tom Hoffman"
 
Default Creating deb package of MIT's programming environment for kids (Squeak based)

On Mon, Oct 13, 2008 at 8:30 AM, Jordan Mantha <laserjock@ubuntu.com> wrote:
> On Mon, Oct 13, 2008 at 12:26 AM, Caroline Ford
> <caroline.ford.work@googlemail.com> wrote:
>>> I'm 99.9% certain they used to have a BSD-style license so maybe you
>>> can get an earlier copy of the image.
>>
>> I've closed the bug unless anyone can find the BSD licensed version.
>>
>> We don't package non-free software.
>
> Just a little correction here. We do package non-free software, we
> just put it in the Multiverse repository and can't distribute it on
> the Edubuntu CD. Note that currently Squeak itself is non-free and in
> Multiverse so Scratch would have to go there anyway until we have a
> free Squeak (Debian's Squeak VM is free apparently, but it's a svn
> snapshot, completely different packaging, and I didn't have time in
> Hardy to work out all the bugs of switching).
>
> I've been the unofficial squeak maintainer for a couple years, but I
> don't use it at all and there are a lot of peculiarities to Squeak,
> enough that I really think a person who uses and knows squeak should
> be maintaining it. It's a relatively important educational subclass of
> packages since OLPC is using it and there are projects such as
> Squeakland and Scratch that would be great to get to educators.
> Perhaps we can find somebody who's using Ubuntu (of any kind) and
> Squeak who would be willing to learn some packaging. I'd be happy to
> help get them going, but unless someone steps forward I doubt I'm
> going to have time to do much with squeak.

There was an announcement last year I think that Squeak was going to
be relicensed under a bsd-style license (I forget which one), but I
haven't seen if this was actually done and on which versions. The
switch was mostly inspired by OLPC, I believe. This would have
specifically covered the original code written at Apple. Like a lot
of old open source projects (and Squeak is ancient by software
standards) there is also a lot of code of unknown provenance in there.

--Tom

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