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Old 04-26-2008, 03:08 AM
Ron Johnson
 
Default Why's this look like gibberish to me?

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 04/25/08 21:13, s. keeling wrote:
> Sorry for the thread snatch.
>
> I'm (usually*) reading d-u in slrn via the mail to news gateway
> linux.debian.user. I've seen this before and I'm wondering if there's
> anything I can do about it, other than going utf-8 myself (I've no
> need for it (I think)).
>
> ----------------------------------
> Bipin Babu <bipinbabu@gmail.com>:
>> ------=_Part_7962_22139442.1209161466138
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
>> Content-Disposition: inline
>>
>> T24gRnJpLCBBcHIgMjUsIDIwMDggYXQgMTo1OCBQTSwgR2lsbG VzIE1vY2VsbGluIDxnaWxsZXMu
>> bW9jZWxsaW5AZnJlZS5mcj4Kd3JvdGU6Cgo+IExlIEZyaWRheS AyNSBBcHJpbCAyMDA4IDE1OjUw
> ----------------------------------

What's the subject & timestamp of the message? I retain all mails,
so I should be able to find it.

> Nothing in this mail is readable here, other than its headers and
> those Content-* lines.
>
> Is this just another reason for me to ignore posts from gmail, or is
> there anything I can do about it? I'm installing metamail now, but
> that's just a shot in the dark.
>
> Etch, slrn 0.9.8.1pl1. .slrnrc:
>
> set charset isolatin
> compatible_charsets us-ascii,iso-8859-1,iso-8859-15,utf-8
>
> ~/.profile:
>
> export LANG="en_US.ISO-8859-15"
> export LC_COLLATE=C
>
> (0) phreaque /home/keeling_ locale
> LANG=en_US.ISO-8859-15
> LC_CTYPE="en_US.ISO-8859-15"
> LC_NUMERIC="en_US.ISO-8859-15"
> LC_TIME="en_US.ISO-8859-15"
> LC_COLLATE=C
> LC_MONETARY="en_US.ISO-8859-15"
> LC_MESSAGES="en_US.ISO-8859-15"
> LC_PAPER="en_US.ISO-8859-15"
> LC_NAME="en_US.ISO-8859-15"
> LC_ADDRESS="en_US.ISO-8859-15"
> LC_TELEPHONE="en_US.ISO-8859-15"
> LC_MEASUREMENT="en_US.ISO-8859-15"
> LC_IDENTIFICATION="en_US.ISO-8859-15"
> LC_ALL=
>
> I have generated utf-8 locales on this thing, but I don't use them (I
> can't read/write/understand anything but English). slrn does well
> with many foreign chars, but every once in a while it hits complete a
> brick wall on some posts, and I haven't been able to nail it down yet.
>
> Thanks.
>
>
> * the gateway's currently reporting it's down for maintenance.


- --
Ron Johnson, Jr.
Jefferson LA USA

We want... a Shrubbery!!
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Old 04-26-2008, 03:27 AM
"Dotan Cohen"
 
Default Why's this look like gibberish to me?

On 26/04/2008, Ron Johnson <ron.l.johnson@cox.net> wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> On 04/25/08 21:13, s. keeling wrote:
> > Sorry for the thread snatch.
> >
> > I'm (usually*) reading d-u in slrn via the mail to news gateway
> > linux.debian.user. I've seen this before and I'm wondering if there's
> > anything I can do about it, other than going utf-8 myself (I've no
> > need for it (I think)).
> >
> > ----------------------------------
> > Bipin Babu <bipinbabu@gmail.com>:
> >> ------=_Part_7962_22139442.1209161466138
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
> >> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
> >> Content-Disposition: inline
> >>
> >> T24gRnJpLCBBcHIgMjUsIDIwMDggYXQgMTo1OCBQTSwgR2lsbG VzIE1vY2VsbGluIDxnaWxsZXMu
> >> bW9jZWxsaW5AZnJlZS5mcj4Kd3JvdGU6Cgo+IExlIEZyaWRheS AyNSBBcHJpbCAyMDA4IDE1OjUw
> > ----------------------------------
>
> What's the subject & timestamp of the message? I retain all mails,
> so I should be able to find it.
>
> > Nothing in this mail is readable here, other than its headers and
> > those Content-* lines.
> >
> > Is this just another reason for me to ignore posts from gmail, or is
> > there anything I can do about it? I'm installing metamail now, but
> > that's just a shot in the dark.
> >
> > Etch, slrn 0.9.8.1pl1. .slrnrc:
> >
> > set charset isolatin
> > compatible_charsets us-ascii,iso-8859-1,iso-8859-15,utf-8
> >
> > ~/.profile:
> >
> > export LANG="en_US.ISO-8859-15"
> > export LC_COLLATE=C
> >
> > (0) phreaque /home/keeling_ locale
> > LANG=en_US.ISO-8859-15
> > LC_CTYPE="en_US.ISO-8859-15"
> > LC_NUMERIC="en_US.ISO-8859-15"
> > LC_TIME="en_US.ISO-8859-15"
> > LC_COLLATE=C
> > LC_MONETARY="en_US.ISO-8859-15"
> > LC_MESSAGES="en_US.ISO-8859-15"
> > LC_PAPER="en_US.ISO-8859-15"
> > LC_NAME="en_US.ISO-8859-15"
> > LC_ADDRESS="en_US.ISO-8859-15"
> > LC_TELEPHONE="en_US.ISO-8859-15"
> > LC_MEASUREMENT="en_US.ISO-8859-15"
> > LC_IDENTIFICATION="en_US.ISO-8859-15"
> > LC_ALL=
> >
> > I have generated utf-8 locales on this thing, but I don't use them (I
> > can't read/write/understand anything but English). slrn does well
> > with many foreign chars, but every once in a while it hits complete a
> > brick wall on some posts, and I haven't been able to nail it down yet.
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> >
> > * the gateway's currently reporting it's down for maintenance.
>

Why are you against switching to UTF-8? Disk space? There really is no
other disadvantage, and even the diskspace arguement doesn't count for
much unless your drive is mostly uncompressed text files.

Dotan Cohen

http://what-is-what.com
http://gibberish.co.il
א-ב-ג-ד-ה-ו-ז-ח-ט-י-ך-כ-ל-ם-מ-ן-*-ס-ע-ף-פ-ץ-צ-ק-ר-ש-ת

A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
 
Old 04-26-2008, 12:08 PM
Eduardo M KALINOWSKI
 
Default Why's this look like gibberish to me?

s. keeling wrote:
> Sorry for the thread snatch.
>
> I'm (usually*) reading d-u in slrn via the mail to news gateway
> linux.debian.user. I've seen this before and I'm wondering if there's
> anything I can do about it, other than going utf-8 myself (I've no
> need for it (I think)).
>
> ----------------------------------
> Bipin Babu <bipinbabu@gmail.com>:
>
>> ------=_Part_7962_22139442.1209161466138
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
>> Content-Disposition: inline
>>
>> T24gRnJpLCBBcHIgMjUsIDIwMDggYXQgMTo1OCBQTSwgR2lsbG VzIE1vY2VsbGluIDxnaWxsZXMu
>> bW9jZWxsaW5AZnJlZS5mcj4Kd3JvdGU6Cgo+IExlIEZyaWRheS AyNSBBcHJpbCAyMDA4IDE1OjUw
>>
> ----------------------------------
>

I do not think the problem is with UTF-8. If it were, you'd see two (or
more) strange characters instead of accented letters or letters of other
writing systems. It does not look like that.

I think the problem is that the message is coded in base64, even if it
is (mostly) plaintext.

--
To get something clean, one has to get something dirty.
To get something dirty, one does not have to get anything clean.

Eduardo M KALINOWSKI
ekalin@gmail.com
http://move.to/hpkb


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Old 04-26-2008, 12:14 PM
"Dotan Cohen"
 
Default Why's this look like gibberish to me?

On 26/04/2008, Eduardo M KALINOWSKI <ekalin@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> T24gRnJpLCBBcHIgMjUsIDIwMDggYXQgMTo1OCBQTSwgR2lsbG VzIE1vY2VsbGluIDxnaWxsZXMu
> >> bW9jZWxsaW5AZnJlZS5mcj4Kd3JvdGU6Cgo+IExlIEZyaWRheS AyNSBBcHJpbCAyMDA4IDE1OjUw
> >>
>
> I do not think the problem is with UTF-8. If it were, you'd see two (or
> more) strange characters instead of accented letters or letters of other
> writing systems. It does not look like that.
>
> I think the problem is that the message is coded in base64, even if it
> is (mostly) plaintext.
>

You are correct. The text quoted translated to this:

"""
On Fri, Apr 25, 2008 at 1:58 PM, Gilles Mocellin <gilles.mocellin@free.fr>
wrote:

> Le Friday 25 April 2008 15:50
"""

Dotan Cohen

http://what-is-what.com
http://gibberish.co.il
א-ב-ג-ד-ה-ו-ז-ח-ט-י-ך-כ-ל-ם-מ-ן-*-ס-ע-ף-פ-ץ-צ-ק-ר-ש-ת

A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
 
Old 04-26-2008, 01:23 PM
Ron Johnson
 
Default Why's this look like gibberish to me?

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 04/26/08 07:14, Dotan Cohen wrote:
> On 26/04/2008, Eduardo M KALINOWSKI <ekalin@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> T24gRnJpLCBBcHIgMjUsIDIwMDggYXQgMTo1OCBQTSwgR2lsbG VzIE1vY2VsbGluIDxnaWxsZXMu
>> >> bW9jZWxsaW5AZnJlZS5mcj4Kd3JvdGU6Cgo+IExlIEZyaWRheS AyNSBBcHJpbCAyMDA4IDE1OjUw
>> >>
>>
>> I do not think the problem is with UTF-8. If it were, you'd see two (or
>> more) strange characters instead of accented letters or letters of other
>> writing systems. It does not look like that.
>>
>> I think the problem is that the message is coded in base64, even if it
>> is (mostly) plaintext.
>>
>
> You are correct. The text quoted translated to this:
>
> """
> On Fri, Apr 25, 2008 at 1:58 PM, Gilles Mocellin <gilles.mocellin@free.fr>
> wrote:
>
>> Le Friday 25 April 2008 15:50
> """

Yup. I found it in my archive, and it's definitely in base64.

Message-ID:
<54c647b10804251511g4483d1e4t6886747039f605b7@mail .gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 15:11:06 -0700
From: "Bipin Babu" <bipinbabu@gmail.com>
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: Grub2
In-Reply-To: <200804252258.26473.gilles.mocellin@free.fr>

This Bipin Babu must have screwed up his gmail configuration, and
doesn't notice, because gmail, Thunderbird, KMail are auto-
converting it.

- --
Ron Johnson, Jr.
Jefferson LA USA

We want... a Shrubbery!!
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Old 04-26-2008, 01:44 PM
"s. keeling"
 
Default Why's this look like gibberish to me?

Ron Johnson <ron.l.johnson@cox.net>:
>
> On 04/25/08 21:13, s. keeling wrote:
> > Sorry for the thread snatch.
> >
> > I'm (usually*) reading d-u in slrn via the mail to news gateway
> > linux.debian.user. I've seen this before and I'm wondering if there's
> > anything I can do about it, other than going utf-8 myself (I've no
> > need for it (I think)).
> >
> > ----------------------------------
> > Bipin Babu <bipinbabu@gmail.com>:
> >> ------=_Part_7962_22139442.1209161466138
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
> >> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
> >> Content-Disposition: inline
> >>
> >> T24gRnJpLCBBcHIgMjUsIDIwMDggYXQgMTo1OCBQTSwgR2lsbG VzIE1vY2VsbGluIDxnaWxsZXMu
> >> bW9jZWxsaW5AZnJlZS5mcj4Kd3JvdGU6Cgo+IExlIEZyaWRheS AyNSBBcHJpbCAyMDA4IDE1OjUw
> > ----------------------------------
>
> What's the subject & timestamp of the message? I retain all mails,
> so I should be able to find it.

Subject: Re: Grub2
Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2008 00:20:11 +0200


--
Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced.
(*) http://blinkynet.net/comp/uip5.html Linux Counter #80292
- - http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc1855.html Please, don't Cc: me.


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Old 04-26-2008, 01:57 PM
"s. keeling"
 
Default Why's this look like gibberish to me?

Dotan Cohen <dotancohen@gmail.com>:
>
> Why are you against switching to UTF-8? Disk space? There really is
> no other disadvantage, and even the diskspace arguement doesn't
> count for much unless your drive is mostly uncompressed text files.

Why would I be _for_ switching? I'm a unilingual Anglophile. utf-8
would gain me nothing. I'm glad utf-8 (et al) finally exists for
those of you who who can use it or need it. However, it's irrelevant
here. I only know English, and can puzzle out some words in other
related western European languages.

I'd guess my $HOME probably is mostly uncompressed text, source and
documentation.


--
Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced.
(*) http://blinkynet.net/comp/uip5.html Linux Counter #80292
- - http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc1855.html Please, don't Cc: me.


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Old 04-26-2008, 02:09 PM
Eduardo M KALINOWSKI
 
Default Why's this look like gibberish to me?

s. keeling wrote:
> Dotan Cohen <dotancohen@gmail.com>:
>
>> Why are you against switching to UTF-8? Disk space? There really is
>> no other disadvantage, and even the diskspace arguement doesn't
>> count for much unless your drive is mostly uncompressed text files.
>>
>
> Why would I be _for_ switching? I'm a unilingual Anglophile. utf-8
> would gain me nothing. I'm glad utf-8 (et al) finally exists for
> those of you who who can use it or need it. However, it's irrelevant
> here. I only know English, and can puzzle out some words in other
> related western European languages.
>
> I'd guess my $HOME probably is mostly uncompressed text, source and
> documentation.

In this case, it would do no bad. UTF-8 is compatible with ASCII, your
files and acts will need no changes.

Even if you used a language with a few accented characters (French,
Spanish, Polish, etc.), your files would only change with regards to
those characters (which would take 2 instead of one byte - but you could
have French and Polish in the same file, for example). The difference is
minimal, and, for English only, inexistent.

--
The human race never solves any of its problems. It merely outlives them.
-- David Gerrold

Eduardo M KALINOWSKI
ekalin@gmail.com
http://move.to/hpkb


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Old 04-26-2008, 02:12 PM
Ron Johnson
 
Default Why's this look like gibberish to me?

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 04/26/08 08:57, s. keeling wrote:
> Dotan Cohen <dotancohen@gmail.com>:
>> Why are you against switching to UTF-8? Disk space? There really is
>> no other disadvantage, and even the diskspace arguement doesn't
>> count for much unless your drive is mostly uncompressed text files.
>
> Why would I be _for_ switching? I'm a unilingual Anglophile. utf-8

Anglo*phile* or anglo*phone*?

- --
Ron Johnson, Jr.
Jefferson LA USA

We want... a Shrubbery!!
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Old 04-26-2008, 02:30 PM
Osamu Aoki
 
Default Why's this look like gibberish to me?

Hi,

On Sat, Apr 26, 2008 at 03:57:19PM +0200, s. keeling wrote:
> Dotan Cohen <dotancohen@gmail.com>:
> >
> > Why are you against switching to UTF-8? Disk space? There really is
> > no other disadvantage, and even the diskspace arguement doesn't
> > count for much unless your drive is mostly uncompressed text files.
>
> Why would I be _for_ switching? I'm a unilingual Anglophile. utf-8
> would gain me nothing. I'm glad utf-8 (et al) finally exists for
> those of you who who can use it or need it. However, it's irrelevant
> here. I only know English, and can puzzle out some words in other
> related western European languages.
>
> I'd guess my $HOME probably is mostly uncompressed text, source and
> documentation.

If you use only ASCII characters in UTF-8 encoded text file, it is
exactly same as ASCII file in size and contents.

Only when you have those alian characters, UTF-8 makes special multi
byte sequence.

If you are talking alian character support bloating data size, it is not
UTF-8 encoded data. The fixed width encoding system UCS-4 etc. used to
represent data in program tends to bload memory consumption of
application. This memory consumption happens even if you use "C"
environment.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Character_Set
http://people.debian.org/~osamu/pub/getwiki/html/ch09.en.html#thelocale

Osamu


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