On 10/10/2012 07:33 PM, Wally Lepore wrote:
> On 10/10/2012 03:22 AM, Wally Lepore wrote:
>>> Based on the above, can a directory/partition be named /usr/local ?
>>> and /var/mail ? I thought a directory can have only one name (i.e.
>>> /usr -or- /local -or- /var -or- /mail).
>
> On Wed, Oct 10, 2012 at 2:17 AM, Linux-Fan <Ma_Sys.ma@web.de> wrote:
>> You can have /var on your "main" partition (which also contains "/") and
>> mount another partition in the subdirectory "/var/mail".
>
> Hi Linux-Fan,
>
> Appreciate the help. I have to read-up on the file structure in Linux.
> I totally understand the concept in windows. But when you said,
>
>> "You can have /var on your "main" partition (which also contains "/")and mount >another partition in the subdirectory "/var/mail".
>
> Can you give me an example please (in a file tree format) such as below?
>
> /var
> /var/mail

In Linux, directories can be used as "mount-points" that look like
normal folders but represent a different filesystem on another partition
or even on another hard drive (Windows also has this for NTFS, but it is
hidden somewhere in the Volume Manager).

For example if you connect a USB Stick to your computer that has only
one partition it might get the device name /dev/sdc1. You could mount
that device in a directory (graphical Desktop Environments will usually
do this for you and create a directory named /media/something that
provides the mount-point for your removable device).

This means a folder's contents in a linux system can exist on a
different device than you would expect them to be:

/var can be on /dev/sdb1 (your root partition where /bin, /etc, /usr and
all the others are also located) and the contents of the subdirectory
/var/mail can be on a different partition (e.g. /dev/sdb2).

You could have something like that
/ on /dev/sdb1 (which I called "main" partition before)
/boot on /dev/sdb2
/var on /dev/sdb1
/var/mail on /dev/sdb3
/home on /dev/sdb4

While your original idea was to have (if I got it correctly)
/ on /dev/sdb1
/boot on /dev/sdb2
/var on /dev/sdb1
/var/mail on /dev/sdb1
/home on /dev/sdb3

I have not read it completely but this could probably help (If I was not
able to claify this completely):

http://www.linfo.org/mounting.html


> Thank you


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On 10/10/2012 01:33 PM, Wally Lepore wrote:

On 10/10/2012 03:22 AM, Wally Lepore wrote:

Based on the above, can a directory/partition be named /usr/local ?
and /var/mail ? I thought a directory can have only one name (i.e.
/usr -or- /local -or- /var -or- /mail).


On Wed, Oct 10, 2012 at 2:17 AM, Linux-Fan<Ma_Sys.ma@web.de> wrote:

You can have /var on your "main" partition (which also contains "/") and
mount another partition in the subdirectory "/var/mail".


Hi Linux-Fan,

Appreciate the help. I have to read-up on the file structure in Linux.
I totally understand the concept in windows. But when you said,


"You can have /var on your "main" partition (which also contains "/")and mount>another partition in the subdirectory "/var/mail".


Can you give me an example please (in a file tree format) such as below?

/var
/var/mail


Not a direct answer to your question but...

Please instal the "debian-reference" package. Doing so will
save you, and us, a lot of time.

Package: debian-reference
Version: 2.48
Installed-Size: 42
Maintainer: Osamu Aoki <osamu@debian.org>
Architecture: all
Depends: debian-reference-en
Recommends: debian-reference-ja, debian-reference-fr,
debian-reference-it, debian-reference-pt
Description-en: metapackage to install (all) translations of Debian
Reference
This Debian Reference is intended to provide a broad overview of the
Debian
system as a post-installation user's guide. It covers many aspects of
system

administration through shell-command examples for non-developers.
.
This installs all translations when "Recommends:" are installed.
Homepage: http://www.debian.org/doc/user-manuals#quick-reference

HTH

--
Give a man a fish, feed him for a day.
Teach a man to fish, feed him for life

Wayne


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On Wed, Oct 10, 2012 at 4:41 AM, Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> wrote:
> You will want to be sure you are partitioning the correct drive. Usually
> it is easy to distinguish between them because the drive containing
> Windows will probably have an NTFS filesystem on it. You should also
> double-check what the drive designation for Debian is (sda or sdb) when
> you finalise partitioning.

Hi Brian,

I'm definitely partitioning the correct drive (measure twice cut
once). Thanks for the critical reminder. Surely do not want to
partition the wrong drive. :-)
Drive designation for Debian is sdb.

> At the GRUB install stage you will be told what other operating systems
> have been detected and that GRUB will be installed to the MBR of the
> first hard drive. What it actually means is that GRUB will be installed
> to the MBR of /dev/sda. You will only say yes to this if Debian is on
> /dev/sda.

Ok, thank you for letting me know what to expect during the install.
GRUB will be installed to Debian's drive which is the 2nd drive (sdb).

> Nice planning. There is sufficient room on /. I'd do without the boot
> partition but it does no harm.

I must use the boot partition. I will be dual booting windows and
debian. As a last step, I will change the boot order in BIOS when all
is completed. I will boot to sdb drive which will present me with a
menu as to what OS I would like to boot (windows or Debian).

See this link. It has 2 pages. Please read the end of page 2:
http://www.linuxbsdos.com/2012/07/23/dual-boot-ubuntu-12-04-and-windows-7-on-a-computer-with-2-hard-drives/

> For the use you will put the OS to I'd stick to your plan. It has the
> benefit of simplicity and ease of implementation.

Thank you for helping Brian
Wally


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On Wed, Oct 10, 2012 at 4:57 AM, Lisi <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> wrote:
> Directories usually have subdirectories. Let's take /usr/local. There are
> three directories specified here. / , usr and mail. That is: root (not to
> be confused with root's home directory), the "root" of the directory "tree";
> usr which is a sub-directory of / , and local which is a subdirectory of usr.
> And those are directories, which are not the same thing as partitions.

Hi Lisi,

Yes I "think" I have a grasp.I have no issues setting up partitions in
windows (in the past) or working with file folders. Not an issue. Been
doing this for years.

Just not sure how the installer or partition manager knows where and
how to place files when I set up any given partition scheme such as:

example #1

/boot
/
/home
swap


example #2

/
swap

example #3

/boot
/
/user
/temp
Swap

Does it matter what order the partitions are placed in? I'm currently
reading a lot on partition set-ups. very interesting topic for sure.

Please see some links I've been reading
:
http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html
http://www.linuxbsdos.com/2011/02/15/debian-6-installation-and-disk-partitioning-guide/
http://linuxbsdos.com/qa/129/debian-squeeze-netinst-partition-drive-dual-boot-using-lvm
(above link is my question I placed out there)
http://www.linuxbsdos.com/2012/07/23/dual-boot-ubuntu-12-04-and-windows-7-on-a-computer-with-2-hard-drives/
(2 pages)
http://www.linuxbsdos.com/2011/09/18/guide-to-disks-and-disk-partitions-in-linux/

> Wally, I really do think that you should just stop worrying and install. It
> doesn't matter if you make mistakes, you can just reinstall. You have
> another windows drive which could just be swapped in, so nothing crucial can
> go wrong.

Yes I understand. Appreciate the suggestion. I have installed windows
numerous times and have become very proficient at it. Yes, my windows
drive is cloned so yes, if I accidentally mess it up, I can re-clone
it. Certainly a good point.

> If you ask 10 people how to partition your system, you will get 10
> different answers. There are arguments that can be adduced to all the
> choices that you suggest you face.

I totally understand. Partitioning is subjective. I have partitioned
windows drives on-and-off over the years and if Idon't do it
regularly, I forget what I did. Yes, eventually (any hour now) I will
make up my mind and go with a particular partition scheme.

> And then there is LVM ...

Funny you mention that! I have been reading about 'Logical Volume
Manager' (LVM) all day. Looks real interesting.

Please see these awesome tutorials that I had to really dig to find.

http://www.linuxbsdos.com/2011/02/16/manual-lvm-configuration-guide-for-debian-6/3/
http://www.linuxbsdos.com/2008/11/17/linux-logical-volume-manager/
http://www.linuxbsdos.com/2012/07/19/manual-lvm-disk-partitioning-guide-for-fedora-17/
http://www.linuxbsdos.com/2008/09/29/how-linux-distros-configure-and-manage-lvm/
>
> Is this going to be a production system? If not, and you are just going to be
> learning, then you can reinstall repeatedly to find out the answers to your
> questions. And once you have installed you will be able to look at your
> directory tree.

No, it certainly won't be a production system :-) Yes I understand
about re-installing and gaining experience. Thanks again Lisi.
Appreciate all the help.

Wally


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On Wed, Oct 10, 2012 at 5:01 AM, Lisi <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wednesday 10 October 2012 09:41:28 Brian wrote:
>> For the use you will put the OS to I'd stick to your plan.
>
> Sorry, Wally. I had obviously forgotten something you had said. My bad!

no problem :-) Thank you
wally


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Thu Oct 11 00:30:01 2012
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Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: About unresolved bugs assigned to voip for ages
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Pacho Ramos schrieb:
>>>>> I am noticing for a long time that bugs related with ekiga,
>>>>> opal, yate... are completely unattended by voip team for
>>>>> years. If nobody from that team is willing to maintain
>>>>> them, please move them to maintainer-needed to, at least,
>>>>> reflect reality.

> Any news here? I can move that packages to maintainer-needed if you
> send me the list of packages you don't want to maintain. Also,
> maybe telepathy stuff could be moved to its own herd (that is
> basically gnome team + tester... or maybe tester could join gnome
> team )

There is now one proxy maintainer for a couple of packages, he is
currently waiting for voip overlay access in bug 437538. He will take
care of linphone and related packages (see bug 399735 and its
dependencies).

Regarding the packages that can be moved to maintainer-needed: I think
a good heuristic is if the package has several open bugs with no
maintainer reaction, and hasn't been touched by anyone from voip herd
in over a year. This would include the ekiga, opal and yate packages
mentioned above.


Best regards,
ChÃ*-Thanh Christopher Nguyá»?n

On Wed 10 Oct 2012 at 17:24:16 -0400, Wally Lepore wrote:

> On Wed, Oct 10, 2012 at 4:41 AM, Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > Nice planning. There is sufficient room on /. I'd do without the boot
> > partition but it does no harm.
>
> I must use the boot partition. I will be dual booting windows and
> debian. As a last step, I will change the boot order in BIOS when all
> is completed. I will boot to sdb drive which will present me with a
> menu as to what OS I would like to boot (windows or Debian).
>
> See this link. It has 2 pages. Please read the end of page 2:
> http://www.linuxbsdos.com/2012/07/23/dual-boot-ubuntu-12-04-and-windows-7-on-a-computer-with-2-hard-drives/

I've read the article and follow its basic idea of having Windows and
Debian on separate drives and changing the boot order in the BIOS. The
author advises four partitions, one being /boot. This is not a
prerequisite for the booting scheme to work but a preference, like
having /var on a separate partition. GRUB will find its files whether
they are on / or /boot. But, as I implied above, it's of no great
consequence.


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On Wed, Oct 10, 2012 at 8:38 AM, lee <lee@yun.yagibdah.de> wrote:
> Wally Lepore <wallylepore@gmail.com> writes:
>
> Thank you for putting up your questions in such a well made way!


I appreciate that. Takes me forever to reply to all posts because I
need to make sure my questions are 'somewhat' clear. :-)


>> An interesting side note: Both identical drives are 'Enhanced IDE'
>> drives (EIDE). However for some reason during the debian set-up, the
>> installer identified them as SCSI drives and labeled them as follows
>>
>> SCSI1 (0,0,0) (sda) -80.0 GB ATA WDC [serial number]
>> SCSI1 (0,1,0) (sdb) -80.0 GB ATA WDC [serial number]
>>
>> Question #1 please:
>> Is this SCSI labeling something I can ignore? I continued on and moved
>> forward to the partition section (where I'm at now) with no issues.
>
> That should be ok. However, it's been a long time that I used IDE
> disks, so I don't know for sure.


Ok thank you. Lisi kindly explained this in detail earlier in this thread.


>> My partition scheme (that I have not set-up yet and based somewhat on
>> the above link) will be as follows:
>>
>> 1st Partition -- Boot Partition
>> /boot -- Type: Primary -- 500MB -- Ext4 journaling file system --
>> Location: Beginning
>>
>> Second Partition -- Root Partition
>> / -- Type: Logical -- 15000MB -- Ext4 journaling file system
>> -- Location: Beginning
>>
>> 3rd Partition -- Home Partition
>> /home -- Type: Logical -- 60000MB -- Ext4 journaling file system --
>> Location: Beginning
>>
>> SWAP Area
>> Swap -- Type: Logical -- 2000MB -- Ext4 journaling file system --
>> Location: Beginning
>>
>> Question #2 please:
>> Is this an acceptable partition set-up? Based on a disk capacity of 80
>> gigs, are the allotted partition sizes acceptable? Any suggestions
>> please ?
>
> It depends on what you want to use the computer for. If you (mainly)
> use it to learn programming in C/C++/Object C, you're not like to need a
> lot of space on /var and probably no /opt partition, for example.

Ok I'm reading this again and again. Awesome info here. Thank you. I
have no idea what /var and /opt actually stand for or what they are
used for but I continue to study?


> To give you some numbers:
>
>
> Filesystem Size Used Avail Use% Mounted on
> /dev/mapper/vg0-root 4.7G 1.2G 3.3G 27% /
> /dev/mapper/vg0-tmp 93G 1.5G 87G 2% /tmp
> /dev/mapper/vg0-usr 47G 9.5G 35G 22% /usr
> /dev/mapper/vg0-usrlocal 19G 545M 18G 4% /usr/local
> /dev/mapper/vg0-var 93G 19G 70G 22% /var
> /dev/mapper/vg0-rest 104G 16G 83G 16% /var/spool/squid-00
>
>
> This kind of partitioning is the result of my experience and having
> plenty disk space for the system. I do not have /boot on a separate
> partiton, and "du -hs /boot" says that 69MB are used. The /var
> partition is large because I'm running a web server, and I'm using
> squid. Squid puts its files into /var/spool/squid and
> /var/spool/squid-00, and 14GB of the 19GB in /var are used by squid.
>
> On /usr/local/, I have emacs24, fvwm, i3 (these are too old in Debian
> testing) and a few libraries. That's why 545MB are used there.
>
> Since you have a smaller disk, the actual partition sizes aren't
> relevant. What these numbers tell you is how much space you may want to
> plan on for each of the different partitions. You might want something
> like this:
>
>
> swap 10GB [1]
> / 2GB including /boot
> /usr 12GB
> /var 2GB
> /tmp 2GB
> /home the rest of it

Wow! Excuse my enthusiasm but you really explain this well! I
appreciate the amount of time you spent explaining this. Swap 10 gigs
?? I'm reading on.....

> It adds up to 28GB, so that leaves you 52GB for /home. Since this is
> either plenty or totally insufficient, I'd make the partitions a little
> larger because in any case, it doesn't really matter if your /home is
> 10GB more or less. You'll get something like this:
>
>
> swap 10GB [1]
> / 3GB including /boot
> /usr 15GB
> /var 4GB
> /tmp 4GB
> /home the rest of it
>
>
> [1]: There's a recommendation to have swap partitions at the very
> beginning of the disk because it's supposed to be faster. I'd make
> it that large because you might want to do something that needs a
> lot of memory and because with only 2GB, you may run out too soon.
> Besides, swap space is a way to slow things down before the system
> starts killing off processes when it runs out of memory which can
> bring it down. It improves your chances to kill processes
> yourself, making better decisions about which ones to kill. If
> you're getting tight, make swap at leas 5GB.

I need to place /boot at the beginning of the disk because I am using
two hard drives in a dual-boot. For booting windows and Debian. /boot
will be at the beginning of the 2nd drive (sdb). This drive will be
100% devoted to debian. I will then change the boot order in BIOS to
have sdb drive boot. This will display a menu asking which OS to boot
(windows or debian). See the end of page 2 on this link please:

http://www.linuxbsdos.com/2012/07/23/dual-boot-ubuntu-12-04-and-windows-7-on-a-computer-with-2-hard-drives/

>> I am also 'meticulously' reading the debian install instructions as
>> well and Debian mentions other available directories such as:
>> dev, lib, opt, var, usr, sys --- etc. Please see the list of
>> additional directories:
>> http://www.debian.org/releases/stable/i386/apcs02.html.en
>>
>> Question #3 please:
>> I am not sure if I need to include 'any' of these additional
>> directories (listed above) in my partition scheme.
>
> The only actually additional one is /opt. Applixware (which AFAIK
> doesn't exist anymore) suggested installing under /opt. Other than
> that, I've never found any other use for /opt than putting games on it.
> For games, your disk is too small to have a reasonably sized /opt
> partition, and nothing forces you to put anything there, so you don't
> really need it.
>
> You will have the other directories.


Ok Thank you. That is good to know, as I do not play games.



>
>> I am also studying the following programming languages: 'C' then C++
>> and Object 'C' and would like to know if I need to include any
>> additional directories/partitions (from the list above) for my
>> 'programming' needs.
>
> You may want to put your own programs into /usr/local, that's why I
> listed it above. If you have 36GB in partitions as above, you can spare
> like 2GB and still have 42GB for /home (instead of 44GB). I have a
> directory ~/inst where I put all stuff I might install, for example the
> sources of emacs, fvwm and i3. That has grown over years (like
> everything else) and holds currently 23GB, so you're still fine for
> programming with a 42GB home. I also have a directory ~/src with stuff I
> wrote myself, and it's only 108MB.

I have to re-read this again until it sinks in. Lot's of great
information here. I appreciate the effort Lee.
>
>> System specs:
>>
>> iWill DVD266R motherboard
>> 'Dual' Pentium III cpu's (1 GHz each) Total: 2 GHz
>> 1 gig DDR memory
>> CD-R/RW
>> DVD - R/RW
>
> That may be somewhat slow for programming when you compile stuff.
> You're really tight on RAM, so you'll probably want a slim X11 session.
> In any case, install a minimal system and add what you need later. As
> for your X11 session for programming, you might be happy with emacs (and
> gnus for your email, so the first thing is to compile emacs because the
> one in Debian is too old) as an editor, i3 as a window manager and rxvt
> as a terminal, and maybe tmux.


Ok but words like i3, rxvt, X11 are very foreign to me at this point.
I won't really get up to speed until I'm finished installing and can
start learning how to compile packages.


> Having that said, you might get away with about 5GB for /usr. I won't
> do that, though, because it just sucks when you later find you made it
> too small --- and it doesn't really matter if /home is 10GB more or
> less. If you need more space, better get another disk and use that for
> /home --- preferably at least two so you can use RAID.


Currently I have RAID turned off on my motherboard but I will consider
your suggestions. Definitely great advice!


> Do not install/use the console-kit-daemon. It creates and keeps about a
> hundred threads and slows things down noticeably.

Very interesting. I will consider that when I reach that point.

Thank you very much Lee.
Wally


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On Wed, Oct 10, 2012 at 8:42 AM, lee <lee@yun.yagibdah.de> wrote:
> Wally Lepore <wallylepore@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> I forgot to add this additional information. I am installing Debian
>> netinst file titled: debian-6.0.6-i386-netinst.iso (32 bit)
>
> Isn't it better to go 64bit and to use the life installer CD? It might
> make more sense to go 64bit when you do programming. And I've seen
> Intel Dual cores capable of running 64bit being extremely slow when
> running 32bit.

That is good to know. Everything is headed towards 64bit. Eventually I
will wind-up witha 64bit system. :-)

Thank you Lee
Wally


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On Wed, Oct 10, 2012 at 8:43 AM, lee <lee@yun.yagibdah.de> wrote:
> Wally Lepore <wallylepore@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> In order to be sure that Debian installs successfully, I also have a
>> USB stick that has the required debian firmware files loaded in the
>> event the debian installer asks for it during set-up.
>
> I needed that once and found I had to unpack these drivers on the
> stick. With that, it worked just fine.

Very good. I am ready to go with the USB thumb drive. They are already
unpacked and installed on the USB stick.

Thank you
Wally


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Am 10.10.2012 um 00:41 schrieb Wally Lepore:


I am at the critical point in the installation process known as the
partition set-up. I have chosen 'manual' set-up for the partitions and
have arrived at the part where its asking me to partition the 2nd hard
disk (sdb). I have not advanced through this section therefore I do
not know what questions will arrive next. I don't want to mess this
up. I will be installing debian-squeeze to its own hard disk (sdb) in
a dual boot set-up.


The installer ask you, if you want to keep your Win-installation.




My partition scheme (that I have not set-up yet and based somewhat on
the above link) will be as follows:

1st Partition -- Boot Partition
/boot -- Type: Primary -- 500MB -- Ext4 journaling file system --
Location: Beginning

Second Partition -- Root Partition
/ -- Type: Logical -- 15000MB -- Ext4 journaling file system
-- Location: Beginning

3rd Partition -- Home Partition
/home -- Type: Logical -- 60000MB -- Ext4 journaling file system --
Location: Beginning

SWAP Area
Swap -- Type: Logical -- 2000MB -- Ext4 journaling file system --
Location: Beginning


If there is no serious reason I always partition swap + / (all in one
root)


The experience showed me that overpartitioning is time-consuming later.

It depends on the intended usage of the computer how high is the risk
of repartioning later.


E.g. for a development workstation 10 GB for /usr was to small at
Debian Sarge times, because of many large packages installed.


Also there was a need to repartition and reinstall my 5 years old
netbook (dual boot) to have all in one partition of 60 GB.


If you install on software-RAID, then /boot should have its own
partition like this server:


root@xen07:/# df -h
Filesystem Size Used Avail Use% Mounted on
/dev/mapper/vg00-lv_root
92G 1.8G 86G 3% /
tmpfs 3.9G 0 3.9G 0% /lib/init/rw
udev 3.5G 172K 3.5G 1% /dev
tmpfs 3.9G 0 3.9G 0% /dev/shm
/dev/md0 472M 42M 407M 10% /boot

This is a XEN-host with 2 x 1 TB disks in RAID-1, with LVM. The
virtual machines each have swap + root like this:


root@dev:/# df -h
Filesystem Size Used Avail Use% Mounted on
/dev/xvda2 197G 22G 166G 12% /
tmpfs 1023M 0 1023M 0% /lib/init/rw
udev 988M 32K 988M 1% /dev
tmpfs 1023M 4.0K 1023M 1% /dev/shm

Helmut Wollmersdorfer


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