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Old 04-15-2008, 05:27 AM
Rico Secada
 
Default sidux

On Mon, 14 Apr 2008 16:35:56 -0700
Andrew Sackville-West <andrew@farwestbilliards.com> wrote:

> On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 06:25:11PM -0400, Joey Hess wrote:
> > Andrew Sackville-West wrote:
> > > The crucial bit that many miss is that new packages don't move
> > > into testing unless they've sat in unstable with no new bug
> > > reports for 10 days (I think).
> >
> > Or 5 days (urgency=medium in changelog).
> > Or 2 days (urgency=high).
> > Or 1 day if it's a bad enough problem (urgency=emergency).
>
> thanks Joey.
>
> In your opinion, am I right in my assessment that testing is more
> likely to be in an unusable state for longer than sid? (at least at
> the package, not system, level)?

That's contrary to my experience.

The must critical bugs gets caught before they enter into testing so in
testing they are non-existant.

Testing are more stable and a much "safer-bet" as a desktop system than
unstable.

At our office we run stable for our servers, but testing for our
desktops. In the last couple of years we haven't found any problems
what so ever running testing. It is a very stable desktop system.

> I have been making this claim for a while, but it's really only based
> on my intuition of the situation and not any direct experience.
>
> A
>



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Old 04-15-2008, 07:25 AM
Anthony Campbell
 
Default sidux

On 14 Apr 2008, Haines Brown wrote:
> Michael,
>
> I wanted to put Debian on a new Thinkpad X61s, and to achieve that with
> minimal pain, I went with sidux. I created a USB-stick to install it,
> and it went as smooth as can be. I'm using the machine with wifi.
>
> All hitches were simply the result of my ignorance. The applications
> I've installed (not many so far because I started with only a base
> system), work fine. I don't bother with any desktop manager, but use
> fluxbox instead.
>
> --

I used Sidux for about 3 months after I bought a Thinkpad Z61M last
year. This was because I had difficulty getting Debian to recognize the
sound and other hardware. Things worked well for a time but when the
wireless changed from ipw3945 to iwlwifi I could no longer connect to
the internet. I then went back to Debian Sid and this time everything
worked fine.

I had a good impression of Sidux until the last-mentioned problem arose.
One warning: the installation CD is quite difficult to make correctly
and the last time I tried it didn't work properly. I'd say give it a try
by all means, but I find the Debian install system is much better now
and there's no reason not to use it.

Anthony


--
Anthony Campbell - ac@acampbell.org.uk
Microsoft-free zone - Using Debian GNU/Linux
http://www.acampbell.org.uk (blog, book reviews,
on-line books and sceptical articles)


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Old 04-15-2008, 07:46 AM
Johannes Wiedersich
 
Default sidux

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Joey Hess wrote:
> Andrew Sackville-West wrote:
>> In your opinion, am I right in my assessment that testing is more
>> likely to be in an unusable state for longer than sid? (at least at
>> the package, not system, level)?
>
> No, I don't think so. If a package has a bug that makes it unusable,
> then
>
> a) Someone will generally notice a bug in the two weeks before that buggy
> package gets into testing, and file a RC bug to keep it out.
> b) If a bug that makes a package unusable does get into testing, it
> can be fixed in 2 days in most cases.
> c) The graph of release critical bugs[1] currently shows 1750 in unstable,
> and only 571 of those affect testing. (658 of them affect *stable*).
> http://bugs.debian.org/release-critical/

I second the experience that there are not too many, if any serious
problems with testing. I've been using testing on 'newer' computers --
especially laptops -- that wouldn't run well with stable for a total of
years and never had any serious problem.

Testing has the benefit that -- unlike unstable -- it will eventually
become stable. I enjoy the 'quiescence' that sets in after testing
becomes stable and there is nothing happening to my system, except for
trivial security fixes. If you are like me and generally prefer 'stable'
software, than 'testing' is your route.

Just my 0.02

Johannes
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Old 04-15-2008, 08:04 AM
Matthew Macdonald-Wallace
 
Default sidux

On Mon, 14 Apr 2008 20:04:48 +0100
Michael C <sieverfrisch@yahoo.ie> wrote:

> Many swear seem to swear by sidux, though its claim to turn "unstable
> into a stable and reliable operating system for every-day usage" seems
> at odds with common sense, especially given its own advice to avoid
> dist-upgrades in the middle of "serious work" because "any package in
> sid can break at any time, and any person can be the first to discover
> it, especially if it is not a standard sidux package."
>
> I'm obviously never going to get a considered, impartial appraisal
> from their forum and IRC channel, so has anyone here tried sidux only
> to find that Testing was better suited to their desktop needs?
>
> Regards,
>
> Michael


If you want to run a "stable" version of Debian "Unstable/Testing", why
not use Ubuntu? As I understand it, Ubuntu takes the Testing repos and
makes them a bit more stable, then releases them.

Regards,

Matt
--
|Matthew Macdonald-Wallace
|Tiger Computing Ltd
|"The Linux Specialists"
|
|Tel: 0330 088 1511
|Web: http://www.tiger-computing.co.uk
|
|Registered in England. Company number: 3389961
|Registered address: Wyastone Business Park,
| Wyastone Leys, Monmouth, NP25 3SR


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Old 04-15-2008, 09:25 AM
Rico Secada
 
Default sidux

On Tue, 15 Apr 2008 09:04:38 +0100
Matthew Macdonald-Wallace <mmw@tiger-computing.co.uk> wrote:

> On Mon, 14 Apr 2008 20:04:48 +0100
> Michael C <sieverfrisch@yahoo.ie> wrote:
>
> > Many swear seem to swear by sidux, though its claim to turn
> > "unstable into a stable and reliable operating system for every-day
> > usage" seems at odds with common sense, especially given its own
> > advice to avoid dist-upgrades in the middle of "serious work"
> > because "any package in sid can break at any time, and any person
> > can be the first to discover it, especially if it is not a standard
> > sidux package."
> >
> > I'm obviously never going to get a considered, impartial appraisal
> > from their forum and IRC channel, so has anyone here tried sidux
> > only to find that Testing was better suited to their desktop needs?
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Michael
>
>
> If you want to run a "stable" version of Debian "Unstable/Testing",
> why not use Ubuntu? As I understand it, Ubuntu takes the Testing
> repos and makes them a bit more stable, then releases them.

How do you make something a bit more stable!?

Just go with testing - it's perfect.

> Regards,
>
> Matt
> --
> |Matthew Macdonald-Wallace
> |Tiger Computing Ltd
> |"The Linux Specialists"
> |
> |Tel: 0330 088 1511
> |Web: http://www.tiger-computing.co.uk
> |
> |Registered in England. Company number: 3389961
> |Registered address: Wyastone Business Park,
> | Wyastone Leys, Monmouth, NP25 3SR
>
>
> --
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> listmaster@lists.debian.org
>
>



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Old 04-15-2008, 09:40 AM
Matthew Macdonald-Wallace
 
Default sidux

On Tue, 15 Apr 2008 11:25:20 +0200
Rico Secada <coolzone@it.dk> wrote:

> How do you make something a bit more stable!?

More testing?!! P

> Just go with testing - it's perfect.

Agreed, I just like Ubuntu! )

M.
--
|Matthew Macdonald-Wallace
|Tiger Computing Ltd
|"The Linux Specialists"
|
|Tel: 0330 088 1511
|Web: http://www.tiger-computing.co.uk
|
|Registered in England. Company number: 3389961
|Registered address: Wyastone Business Park,
| Wyastone Leys, Monmouth, NP25 3SR


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Old 04-15-2008, 09:43 AM
Michael C
 
Default sidux

Matthew Macdonald-Wallace wrote:

On Mon, 14 Apr 2008 20:04:48 +0100
Michael C <sieverfrisch@yahoo.ie> wrote:



Many swear seem to swear by sidux, though its claim to turn "unstable
into a stable and reliable operating system for every-day usage" seems
at odds with common sense, especially given its own advice to avoid
dist-upgrades in the middle of "serious work" because "any package in
sid can break at any time, and any person can be the first to discover
it, especially if it is not a standard sidux package."

I'm obviously never going to get a considered, impartial appraisal
from their forum and IRC channel, so has anyone here tried sidux only
to find that Testing was better suited to their desktop needs?

Regards,

Michael




If you want to run a "stable" version of Debian "Unstable/Testing", why
not use Ubuntu?


Two things, really.

(i) Mediocre quality assurance -- remember the JMicron show-stopper that
evidently hadn't been resolved by the time of 7.04's release (unlike
PCLinuxOS, which specifically delayed its release by several weeks until
the issue *was* resolved).

There's a rather nice article by Sam Varghese summarizing why I won't be
installing 8.04 in a hurry: http://www.itwire.com/content/view/17601/1154/

(ii) Its easy-going relationship to proprietary junk.


As I understand it, Ubuntu takes the Testing repos and
makes them a bit more stable, then releases them.



I was under the impression their code base is a stabilized snapshot of Sid.

Best,

Michael






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Old 04-15-2008, 04:08 PM
Amit Uttamchandani
 
Default sidux

On Tue, 15 Apr 2008 07:27:22 +0200
Rico Secada <coolzone@it.dk> wrote:

> On Mon, 14 Apr 2008 16:35:56 -0700
> Andrew Sackville-West <andrew@farwestbilliards.com> wrote:
>
> > On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 06:25:11PM -0400, Joey Hess wrote:
> > > Andrew Sackville-West wrote:
> > > > The crucial bit that many miss is that new packages don't move
> > > > into testing unless they've sat in unstable with no new bug
> > > > reports for 10 days (I think).
> > >
> > > Or 5 days (urgency=medium in changelog).
> > > Or 2 days (urgency=high).
> > > Or 1 day if it's a bad enough problem (urgency=emergency).
> >
> > thanks Joey.
> >
> > In your opinion, am I right in my assessment that testing is more
> > likely to be in an unusable state for longer than sid? (at least at
> > the package, not system, level)?
>
> That's contrary to my experience.
>
> The must critical bugs gets caught before they enter into testing so in
> testing they are non-existant.
>
> Testing are more stable and a much "safer-bet" as a desktop system than
> unstable.
>
> At our office we run stable for our servers, but testing for our
> desktops. In the last couple of years we haven't found any problems
> what so ever running testing. It is a very stable desktop system.
>
> > I have been making this claim for a while, but it's really only based
> > on my intuition of the situation and not any direct experience.
> >
> > A
> >
>

I had the same question as the OP and this thread/post answered it.

I installed debian stabled "etch" on my desktop system. This was my first step into the linux world. I found that it was amazingly stable but the software was out of date. I found I had to compile a lot of things from source, which was good because I learned a lot!

But now for my new desktop system I am ready to migrate it into testing.

Thanks everyone.

Amit


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Old 04-15-2008, 04:11 PM
Andrew Sackville-West
 
Default sidux

On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 09:46:26AM +0200, Johannes Wiedersich wrote:
> Joey Hess wrote:

Both of you, thanks!

> > Andrew Sackville-West wrote:
> >> In your opinion, am I right in my assessment that testing is more
> >> likely to be in an unusable state for longer than sid? (at least at
> >> the package, not system, level)?
> >
> > No, I don't think so. If a package has a bug that makes it unusable,
> > then
> >
> > a) Someone will generally notice a bug in the two weeks before that buggy
> > package gets into testing, and file a RC bug to keep it out.
> > b) If a bug that makes a package unusable does get into testing, it
> > can be fixed in 2 days in most cases.
> > c) The graph of release critical bugs[1] currently shows 1750 in unstable,
> > and only 571 of those affect testing. (658 of them affect *stable*).
> > http://bugs.debian.org/release-critical/
>

Interesting to see that Etch has more RC bugs than Lenny at this
point.

> I second the experience that there are not too many, if any serious
> problems with testing. I've been using testing on 'newer' computers --
> especially laptops -- that wouldn't run well with stable for a total of
> years and never had any serious problem.
>
> Testing has the benefit that -- unlike unstable -- it will eventually
> become stable. I enjoy the 'quiescence' that sets in after testing
> becomes stable and there is nothing happening to my system, except for
> trivial security fixes. If you are like me and generally prefer 'stable'
> software, than 'testing' is your route.


Well, then I'll adjust my view accordingly

I seem to recall *something* (who knows what at this point) that
slipped into testing early after the sarge release and because of a
series of unfortunate events, the poor testing users were stuck with
serious problems while those in sid blithely moved along. I'll chalk
it up to either a one-off situation or (more likely) corrupted bits in
the ol' wetware.

A
 
Old 04-15-2008, 04:21 PM
Andrew Sackville-West
 
Default sidux

On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 09:16:19AM +1000, Rich Healey wrote:
> Andrew Sackville-West wrote:
...
> >
> > I personally wouldn't run a testing system for regular use. I would
> > run sid or stable (with backports as needed). Of course, YMMV.
> >
...

> Interesting, when you put it like that it does make sense.
>
> So now I'm tempted to bump my work machine up to sid.
>
> just to see if the X server in sid still hates my vm..
>

Well, I hope you're still reading the thread, as I've been largely refuted...

A
 

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