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Old 08-17-2012, 02:39 PM
Gary Roach
 
Default Changing to digest form

Hi
I'm presently using the standard form of this mailing list and wish to
change to the digest form. Can I just re-subscribe to the digest form or
do I have to unsubscribe from the standard for as well.


Gary R.


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Old 08-17-2012, 03:46 PM
Camaleón
 
Default Changing to digest form

On Fri, 17 Aug 2012 07:39:04 -0700, Gary Roach wrote:

> I'm presently using the standard form of this mailing list and wish to
> change to the digest form.

If you want to post replies, I wouldn't do it :-/

> Can I just re-subscribe to the digest form or do I have to unsubscribe
> from the standard for as well.

You will have to "unsusbscribe" for one (normal) and then "subscribe" for
the other (digest) but again, reconsider it... if you don't want to store
messages in your hard disk you can use a newsreader and NNTP, no
subscription nor local space needed.

Greetings,

--
Camaleón


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Old 08-21-2012, 07:51 PM
Bob Proulx
 
Default Changing to digest form

Camaleón wrote:
> Gary Roach wrote:
> > I'm presently using the standard form of this mailing list and wish to
> > change to the digest form.
>
> If you want to post replies, I wouldn't do it :-/

Agreed strongly! Please do not post replies from a digest.

> > Can I just re-subscribe to the digest form or do I have to unsubscribe
> > from the standard for as well.
>
> You will have to "unsusbscribe" for one (normal) and then "subscribe" for
> the other (digest) but again, reconsider it... if you don't want to store
> messages in your hard disk you can use a newsreader and NNTP, no
> subscription nor local space needed.

People using digests usually don't know how to reply using them and
cause a lot of problems. Please don't be the source of problems.
Using a digested mailing list is hard! You need special tools in
order to burst the digest to read and reply to it.

As Camaleón writes people that think they might want the digest form
would be much better served by using the newsgroups. Or Gmane. Or
other web archive reader. I use the mailing list interface. But to
avoid the problems of a digest I will suggest Gmane as one of the less
objectionable alternatives. Try this.

Overview:
http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.linux.debian.user

Web page reader using frames and threads:
http://news.gmane.org/gmane.linux.debian.user

Bob
 
Old 08-21-2012, 08:47 PM
Mike McClain
 
Default Changing to digest form

On Tue, Aug 21, 2012 at 01:51:27PM -0600, Bob Proulx wrote:
<snip>
>
> People using digests usually don't know how to reply using them and
> cause a lot of problems. Please don't be the source of problems.
> Using a digested mailing list is hard! You need special tools in
> order to burst the digest to read and reply to it.

I've been following this list for years and up until recently when
the digest broke subscribed to the digest. It's much quicker on dialup
to grab a ~32Kb block of mail than 10-15 individual messages.

I read the digest using mutt's 'v' to split it and 'L' to reply to
the list and never noticed when I replied that anything was amiss.

Does that not work the way I thought or are these the special tools
you're refering to and I just lucked into using them or have there been
problems with my posts that I'm unaware of?

Thanks,
Mike
--
Satisfied user of Linux since 1997.
O< ascii ribbon campaign - stop html mail - www.asciiribbon.org


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Old 08-21-2012, 10:59 PM
Bob Proulx
 
Default Changing to digest form

Mike McClain wrote:
> Bob Proulx wrote:
> > People using digests usually don't know how to reply using them and
> > cause a lot of problems. Please don't be the source of problems.
> > Using a digested mailing list is hard! You need special tools in
> > order to burst the digest to read and reply to it.
>
> I've been following this list for years and up until recently when
> the digest broke subscribed to the digest. It's much quicker on dialup
> to grab a ~32Kb block of mail than 10-15 individual messages.

I hate to open a long diversion but what are you using as your mail
transfer agent on your dialup? I used to use Taylor UUCP (the
"ultimate" uucp program) and it was always quite efficient. But
different environments are different.

> I read the digest using mutt's 'v' to split it and 'L' to reply to
> the list and never noticed when I replied that anything was amiss.

Yes. That is fine. Mutt does almost everything well!

> Does that not work the way I thought or are these the special tools
> you're refering to and I just lucked into using them or have there been
> problems with my posts that I'm unaware of?

The problem is how many people who want to use digest mode are going
to be using mutt? What about the ones who don't? The problems mostly
come from those that don't. But how much flamage would I have
attracted if I had said that people using digests but not using mutt
are the source of a lot of problems? :-)

The special tools I mentioned are tools like mutt. But others are
available too. For example I used to read digests using Emacs VM mode
where there is a command to burst the digest so that messages can be
read and replies made using emacs-vm. That worked well too. I think
Emacs gnus handles this too for that matter. Mutt isn't the only
tool. As far as I am concerned any tool that operates correctly on
the email is fine with me.

For what it is worth the original poster sent the query using Mozilla
Icedove which as far as I know does not know how to open digests and
reply to individual messages.

Digests are not common these days (they never were, really) and so
people don't have a culture of using them and then don't realize that
they need to do anything special with them. The weak link in the
chain has always been people. They will commonly simply reply to the
digest leaving the subject and in-reply-to headers unchanged and not
trimming the body.

In your mutt do 'l ~s "debian-user-digest Digest"' and you can see the
latest crop of bad responses. Only a few recently but May was a
particularly bad month. If I were to scan the archives I would be
able to produce a number of particular egregious examples of reply
fail when using digests. More if I searched other mailing lists.

Bob
 
Old 08-22-2012, 06:26 AM
Ralf Mardorf
 
Default Changing to digest form

On Tue, 2012-08-21 at 13:51 -0600, Bob Proulx wrote:
> Camaleón wrote:
> > Gary Roach wrote:
> > > I'm presently using the standard form of this mailing list and wish to
> > > change to the digest form.
> >
> > If you want to post replies, I wouldn't do it :-/
>
> Agreed strongly! Please do not post replies from a digest.
>
> > > Can I just re-subscribe to the digest form or do I have to unsubscribe
> > > from the standard for as well.
> >
> > You will have to "unsusbscribe" for one (normal) and then "subscribe" for
> > the other (digest) but again, reconsider it... if you don't want to store
> > messages in your hard disk you can use a newsreader and NNTP, no
> > subscription nor local space needed.
>
> People using digests usually don't know how to reply using them and
> cause a lot of problems. Please don't be the source of problems.
> Using a digested mailing list is hard! You need special tools in
> order to burst the digest to read and reply to it.
>
> As Camaleón writes people that think they might want the digest form
> would be much better served by using the newsgroups. Or Gmane. Or
> other web archive reader. I use the mailing list interface. But to
> avoid the problems of a digest I will suggest Gmane as one of the less
> objectionable alternatives. Try this.
>
> Overview:
> http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.linux.debian.user
>
> Web page reader using frames and threads:
> http://news.gmane.org/gmane.linux.debian.user
>
> Bob

While my MUA is able to handle replies to digest correctly, digest
anyway caused that much trouble, that I canceled it and subscribed to
the "normal" mailing list again.

YMMV,
Ralf


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Old 08-22-2012, 06:31 AM
Ralf Mardorf
 
Default Changing to digest form

People accustomed to a GUI can use Evolution. It's possible to reply to
the individual mails inside Debian's digest. Mailman's digest is another
issue, not relevant for this list.

Regards,
Ralf


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Old 08-22-2012, 03:09 PM
Mike McClain
 
Default Changing to digest form

On Tue, Aug 21, 2012 at 04:59:58PM -0600, Bob Proulx wrote:
> Mike McClain wrote:
> > Bob Proulx wrote:
> > > People using digests usually don't know how to reply using them and
> > > cause a lot of problems. Please don't be the source of problems.
> > > Using a digested mailing list is hard! You need special tools in
> > > order to burst the digest to read and reply to it.

I've always been lucky and just stumbled into mutt which made using
a digested mailing list easy.

<snip>

> I hate to open a long diversion but what are you using as your mail
> transfer agent on your dialup? I used to use Taylor UUCP (the
> "ultimate" uucp program) and it was always quite efficient. But
> different environments are different.

Exim and fetchmail work well for me except when my ISP hangs up in
the middle of a fetch.

<snip>
>
> In your mutt do 'l ~s "debian-user-digest Digest"' and you can see the
> latest crop of bad responses. Only a few recently but May was a
<snip>

Since the digest is broken and the maintainer wouldn't even answer my
messages I no longer subscribe but will go back to it when I hear it's
fixed.

Thanks for your explanation and assuring me I'm not unintentionally
messing up your mail.

Mike
--
Satisfied user of Linux since 1997.
If you woke up this morning count your blessings.


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Old 08-22-2012, 03:33 PM
Gary Roach
 
Default Changing to digest form

On 08/21/2012 11:26 PM, Ralf Mardorf wrote:

On Tue, 2012-08-21 at 13:51 -0600, Bob Proulx wrote:


Camaleón wrote:


Gary Roach wrote:


I'm presently using the standard form of this mailing list and wish to
change to the digest form.


If you want to post replies, I wouldn't do it :-/


Agreed strongly! Please do not post replies from a digest.



Can I just re-subscribe to the digest form or do I have to unsubscribe
from the standard for as well.


You will have to "unsusbscribe" for one (normal) and then "subscribe" for
the other (digest) but again, reconsider it... if you don't want to store
messages in your hard disk you can use a newsreader and NNTP, no
subscription nor local space needed.


People using digests usually don't know how to reply using them and
cause a lot of problems. Please don't be the source of problems.
Using a digested mailing list is hard! You need special tools in
order to burst the digest to read and reply to it.

As Camaleón writes people that think they might want the digest form
would be much better served by using the newsgroups. Or Gmane. Or
other web archive reader. I use the mailing list interface. But to
avoid the problems of a digest I will suggest Gmane as one of the less
objectionable alternatives. Try this.

Overview:
http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.linux.debian.user

Web page reader using frames and threads:
http://news.gmane.org/gmane.linux.debian.user

Bob


While my MUA is able to handle replies to digest correctly, digest
anyway caused that much trouble, that I canceled it and subscribed to
the "normal" mailing list again.

YMMV,
Ralf




OK, OK
I'm convinced. I'll stay with the normal list. I just needed to get used
to the difference. I quit the digest because it broke for me. This form
takes a little longer to go through but not significantly so.


I hope that this is the correct way to reply. I don't want to clutter up
Ralf's normal in box with debian messages. I notice that a few of the
lists messages are showing up in mine. The filter doesn't catch them
because they are directly from the sender instead of from debian lists.


Gary R


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Old 08-22-2012, 09:04 PM
Bob Proulx
 
Default Changing to digest form

Mike McClain wrote:
> Since the digest is broken and the maintainer wouldn't even answer my
> messages I no longer subscribe but will go back to it when I hear it's
> fixed.

Even though I campaign against digests I think it is lamentable that
it is broken. I know there have been attempts to rally for a fix but
to no avail. I think eventually someone with the access will be able
to fix it.

> Thanks for your explanation and assuring me I'm not unintentionally
> messing up your mail.

Your messages have all been formated okay as far as I can see. No
problems at all posting them as you have been.

Bob
 

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