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Old 08-22-2012, 09:16 PM
Bob Proulx
 
Default Changing to digest form

Gary Roach wrote:
> OK, OK
> I'm convinced. I'll stay with the normal list.

:-)

> I just needed to get used to the difference.

I am so very used to seeing threaded message discussions that not
having those would drive me crazy.

> I quit the digest because it broke for me.
> This form takes a little longer to go through but not significantly
> so.

Are you using a threaded mailer? I can only guess that you are not.
In which case you should try it. It makes reading the mailing list
quite a pleasant experience.

And let me note that message threading is not what Gmail and MS call
conversations based upon subject. That is yet a different way of
sorting messages. One that is lacking in my not so humble opinion.

> I hope that this is the correct way to reply. I don't want to
> clutter up Ralf's normal in box with debian messages.

It looks okay to me. I see no fault with it.

> I notice that a few of the lists messages are showing up in
> mine. The filter doesn't catch them because they are directly from
> the sender instead of from debian lists.

Are you talking about people who CC the original sender of the message
in addition to the mailing list? That is against the mailing list
code of conduct which specifically says not to CC the sender too. It
is a perpetual problem regardless. When that happens you get a direct
copy along with the mailing list copy. And the extra discussion
concerning it on the mailing list saying "Please don't CC me as I read
the mailing list already."

For me it means that I need to verify that I got the message by the
mailing list too (which always comes later so I usually ignore it for
a while first) and that it wasn't a reply only to me. So I can't just
ignore them. I have to spend effort to determine what is going on
with the message and where it came from and how it got to me. What a
pain! And usually from people asking for help. My editorial remark
is that if people want help then the easiest thing is to make it easy
to be helped and they will get more of it and of a higher quality too.

I have come to the conclusion that humans are intrinsically bad at
communication. Apparently it isn't common sense. Apparently it does
actually require the person to put some effort into learning how to
interact with others. I wonder if we will ever master it? Na.
Probably not. File it as a wishlist bug and tag it as "wontfix". :-)

Bob
 
Old 08-22-2012, 10:46 PM
Ralf Mardorf
 
Default Changing to digest form

On Wed, 2012-08-22 at 15:04 -0600, Bob Proulx wrote:
> Mike McClain wrote:
> > Since the digest is broken and the maintainer wouldn't even answer my
> > messages I no longer subscribe but will go back to it when I hear it's
> > fixed.
>
> Even though I campaign against digests I think it is lamentable that
> it is broken. I know there have been attempts to rally for a fix but
> to no avail. I think eventually someone with the access will be able
> to fix it.
>
> > Thanks for your explanation and assuring me I'm not unintentionally
> > messing up your mail.
>
> Your messages have all been formated okay as far as I can see. No
> problems at all posting them as you have been.

I don't care, but yes, all messages are more perfect than IMO are
needed.

I would like to use digest too, if digest isn't broken anymore, please
inform me. If I should reply using a digest and something is technical
broken (not regarding to the content of my idiotic messages , then
inform me too.

I would like to switch to digest.

Regards,
Ralf


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Old 08-22-2012, 10:56 PM
Ralf Mardorf
 
Default Changing to digest form

On Wed, 2012-08-22 at 15:16 -0600, Bob Proulx wrote:
> > I hope that this is the correct way to reply. I don't want to
> > clutter up Ralf's normal in box with debian messages.
>
> It looks okay to me. I see no fault with it.

Absolutely ok for me! No fault for me either. Some list members take
care of things that aren't important for me, dunno, perhaps Bob's,
your's our my mails are broken in some technical way. I don't notice an
issue.

Regards,
Ralf

PS: Contentwise isn't the subject . At least I annoy some people .
Important is the technical aspect.


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Old 08-23-2012, 05:34 AM
Mike McClain
 
Default Changing to digest form

On Wed, Aug 22, 2012 at 03:16:01PM -0600, Bob Proulx wrote:
<snip>
>
> I have come to the conclusion that humans are intrinsically bad at
> communication. Apparently it isn't common sense. Apparently it does
> actually require the person to put some effort into learning how to
> interact with others. I wonder if we will ever master it? Na.
> Probably not. File it as a wishlist bug and tag it as "wontfix". :-)

Bob you're being too impatient, why only 3000 years ago everyone who
wasn't family was a deadly enemy. Admitedly in some parts of the world
you can substitute tribe for family and claim it's still true but where
I live my neighbors are from all over and we hardly ever shoot at each
other. So tag your wishlist as 'to be fixed later', after all your glass
is really half full.

Mike
--
If you woke up this morning count your blessings.
Tomorrow may be different.


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Old 08-23-2012, 06:13 AM
Andrei POPESCU
 
Default Changing to digest form

On Jo, 23 aug 12, 00:46:41, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
>
> I would like to use digest too, if digest isn't broken anymore, please
> inform me. If I should reply using a digest and something is technical
> broken (not regarding to the content of my idiotic messages , then
> inform me too.

You can always subscribe to the relevant bug (too lazy to look up the
number for you).

Kind regards,
Andrei
--
Offtopic discussions among Debian users and developers:
http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/d-community-offtopic
 
Old 08-23-2012, 06:16 AM
Andrei POPESCU
 
Default Changing to digest form

On Mi, 22 aug 12, 15:16:01, Bob Proulx wrote:
>
> For me it means that I need to verify that I got the message by the
> mailing list too (which always comes later so I usually ignore it for
> a while first) and that it wasn't a reply only to me. So I can't just
> ignore them. I have to spend effort to determine what is going on
> with the message and where it came from and how it got to me. What a
> pain! And usually from people asking for help. My editorial remark
> is that if people want help then the easiest thing is to make it easy
> to be helped and they will get more of it and of a higher quality too.

+1

> I have come to the conclusion that humans are intrinsically bad at
> communication. Apparently it isn't common sense. Apparently it does
> actually require the person to put some effort into learning how to
> interact with others. I wonder if we will ever master it? Na.
> Probably not. File it as a wishlist bug and tag it as "wontfix". :-)

+1 again

Kind regards,
Andrei
--
Offtopic discussions among Debian users and developers:
http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/d-community-offtopic
 
Old 08-23-2012, 04:14 PM
Mike McClain
 
Default Changing to digest form

Hi Andrei,

On Thu, Aug 23, 2012 at 09:13:52AM +0300, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
<snip>
> You can always subscribe to the relevant bug (too lazy to look up the
> number for you).

Educate me please, how do you subscribe to a bug?

Thanks,
Mike
--
Satisfied user of Linux since 1997.
O< ascii ribbon campaign - stop html mail - www.asciiribbon.org


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Old 08-23-2012, 04:42 PM
Gary Roach
 
Default Changing to digest form

On 08/22/2012 02:16 PM, Bob Proulx wrote:

Gary Roach wrote:


OK, OK
I'm convinced. I'll stay with the normal list.


:-)



I just needed to get used to the difference.


I am so very used to seeing threaded message discussions that not
having those would drive me crazy.



I quit the digest because it broke for me.
This form takes a little longer to go through but not significantly
so.


Are you using a threaded mailer? I can only guess that you are not.
In which case you should try it. It makes reading the mailing list
quite a pleasant experience.

And let me note that message threading is not what Gmail and MS call
conversations based upon subject. That is yet a different way of
sorting messages. One that is lacking in my not so humble opinion.


I'm using icedove. It does a good job of underlining or dropping down
threads that are active. Any older threads, for which I have special
interest , I just tag with a color. I found the out of order dates that
are created a bit confusing at first but am now used to it.


Gary R.

I hope that this is the correct way to reply. I don't want to
clutter up Ralf's normal in box with debian messages.


It looks okay to me. I see no fault with it.



I notice that a few of the lists messages are showing up in
mine. The filter doesn't catch them because they are directly from
the sender instead of from debian lists.


Are you talking about people who CC the original sender of the message
in addition to the mailing list? That is against the mailing list
code of conduct which specifically says not to CC the sender too. It
is a perpetual problem regardless. When that happens you get a direct
copy along with the mailing list copy. And the extra discussion
concerning it on the mailing list saying "Please don't CC me as I read
the mailing list already."

For me it means that I need to verify that I got the message by the
mailing list too (which always comes later so I usually ignore it for
a while first) and that it wasn't a reply only to me. So I can't just
ignore them. I have to spend effort to determine what is going on
with the message and where it came from and how it got to me. What a
pain! And usually from people asking for help. My editorial remark
is that if people want help then the easiest thing is to make it easy
to be helped and they will get more of it and of a higher quality too.

I have come to the conclusion that humans are intrinsically bad at
communication. Apparently it isn't common sense. Apparently it does
actually require the person to put some effort into learning how to
interact with others. I wonder if we will ever master it? Na.
Probably not. File it as a wishlist bug and tag it as "wontfix". :-)

Bob




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Old 08-23-2012, 04:52 PM
Andrei POPESCU
 
Default Changing to digest form

On Jo, 23 aug 12, 09:14:18, Mike McClain wrote:
> Hi Andrei,
>
> On Thu, Aug 23, 2012 at 09:13:52AM +0300, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
> <snip>
> > You can always subscribe to the relevant bug (too lazy to look up the
> > number for you).
>
> Educate me please, how do you subscribe to a bug?

http://www.debian.org/Bugs/Developer#subscribe

or click on the relevant link at the top of the bug page.

Kind regards,
Andrei
--
Offtopic discussions among Debian users and developers:
http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/d-community-offtopic
 

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