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Old 04-14-2008, 05:24 PM
Ron Johnson
 
Default Packages temporarily disappearing from Testing/Lenny

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On 04/14/08 12:06, Sven Joachim wrote:
> On 2008-04-14 18:32 +0200, Ron Johnson wrote:
>
>> On 04/14/08 10:56, Sven Joachim wrote:
>>> You know that all these packages are just recommendations and you do not
>>> need to install all (not even any) of them?
>> Maybe there's an ambiguity in what "*will* be installed" means?
>
> Probably not; if you'd use aptitude rather than apt-get, you could use
> the "--without-recommends" commandline option or use the TUI to sort out
> which of the recommended packages you want and which not (the latter is
> what I did). But even with apt-get, you can remove the recommended
> packages at any time, that's the difference between dependencies and
> recommendations, after all.

Since when does apt-get automatically pull in recommended packages?
Quite frequently I see it recommend packages, but not automatically
pull them in.

- --
Ron Johnson, Jr.
Jefferson LA USA

We want... a Shrubbery!!
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Old 04-14-2008, 05:54 PM
Sven Joachim
 
Default Packages temporarily disappearing from Testing/Lenny

On 2008-04-14 19:24 +0200, Ron Johnson wrote:

> Since when does apt-get automatically pull in recommended packages?
> Quite frequently I see it recommend packages, but not automatically
> pull them in.

It does so by default since apt 0.7.7, October 2007.

Sven


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Old 04-14-2008, 06:20 PM
David
 
Default Packages temporarily disappearing from Testing/Lenny

Hi again list, and thanks for the replies.

My PC survived the upgrade to Unstable and actually has fewer problems
than I did with Testing (besides a few xorg.conf and nvidia-xconfig
issues, and 2 gtk libraries being held back due to dependancy
problems).

A follow-up for those packages I mentioned:

xmms - Removed because it is old and unmaintained, has dependancy
problems. I had problems with audacious/testing, but
audacious/unstable works great and looks just like XMMS (with the
Refugee skin). Also it seems to have remote control functionality
(dbus) which I need at work for it to be a replacement for XMMS.

nvidia-glx (nvidia-graphics-drivers) - An old version was sitting in
Testing for months. It was never updated in unstable because the
updated versions have a lot of bug reports, and also because they want
kernel module packages which were never uploaded (presumably because
users can make them with modula-assistant). Eventually, a newer
package linux-2.6 (which had dependancy issues with the old
nvidia-graphics-drivers) moved to Testing, which kicked
nvidia-graphics-drivers out of Testing.

comix - The version in Testing had security problems, so it was
removed automatically (however, the insecure version stayed in
Unstable). Almost a month later a fixed version was uploaded to stable
and 10 days later it moved to Testing.

Overall, I get the impression that Testing is a very good staging area
for the next Stable, but it can be a 2nd-class citizen (compared to
Stable and Unstable) for end-users, with packages getting very out of
date or even disappearing from time to time. I need to keep this in
mind for the future.

David.


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Old 04-14-2008, 08:02 PM
Ron Johnson
 
Default Packages temporarily disappearing from Testing/Lenny

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On 04/14/08 12:54, Sven Joachim wrote:
> On 2008-04-14 19:24 +0200, Ron Johnson wrote:
>
>> Since when does apt-get automatically pull in recommended packages?
>> Quite frequently I see it recommend packages, but not automatically
>> pull them in.
>
> It does so by default since apt 0.7.7, October 2007.

Ah.

I've looked thru "man apt.conf", "man apt_preferences" and "man
apt-get", but don't see any way to disable this.

- --
Ron Johnson, Jr.
Jefferson LA USA

We want... a Shrubbery!!
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Old 04-14-2008, 08:20 PM
Sven Joachim
 
Default Packages temporarily disappearing from Testing/Lenny

On 2008-04-14 22:02 +0200, Ron Johnson wrote:

> On 04/14/08 12:54, Sven Joachim wrote:
>> On 2008-04-14 19:24 +0200, Ron Johnson wrote:
>>
>>> Since when does apt-get automatically pull in recommended packages?
>>> Quite frequently I see it recommend packages, but not automatically
>>> pull them in.
>>
>> It does so by default since apt 0.7.7, October 2007.
>
> Ah.
>
> I've looked thru "man apt.conf", "man apt_preferences" and "man
> apt-get", but don't see any way to disable this.

The apt.conf(5) manpage mentions the file
/usr/share/doc/apt/examples/configure-index.gz which should give you an
idea about which option to change.

"It should be announced more prominently!", I hear you say. Before you
file a bug, please wade through the *more than 800* outstanding apt bugs
to see if somebody has already suggested that.

Sven


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Old 04-14-2008, 10:06 PM
Kevin Mark
 
Default Packages temporarily disappearing from Testing/Lenny

On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 08:20:00PM +0200, David wrote:
> Hi again list, and thanks for the replies.
>
> My PC survived the upgrade to Unstable and actually has fewer problems
> than I did with Testing (besides a few xorg.conf and nvidia-xconfig
> issues, and 2 gtk libraries being held back due to dependancy
> problems).
>
> A follow-up for those packages I mentioned:
>
> xmms - Removed because it is old and unmaintained, has dependancy
> problems. I had problems with audacious/testing, but
> audacious/unstable works great and looks just like XMMS (with the
> Refugee skin). Also it seems to have remote control functionality
> (dbus) which I need at work for it to be a replacement for XMMS.

Debian from time to time needs to drop things like libraries to keep it
maintainable. Having 7 different versions of a particular
language|library is untenable (python 1.0, 2.0, ...). So in this case
XMMS used gtk 1 which is being phased-out and gtk 2 will be used thus
forward. IIRC some folks where considering upgrading XMMS to use gtk 2.
This would be a way to get XMMS back into Debian.

>
> nvidia-glx (nvidia-graphics-drivers) - An old version was sitting in
> Testing for months. It was never updated in unstable because the
> updated versions have a lot of bug reports, and also because they want
> kernel module packages which were never uploaded (presumably because
> users can make them with modula-assistant). Eventually, a newer
> package linux-2.6 (which had dependancy issues with the old
> nvidia-graphics-drivers) moved to Testing, which kicked
> nvidia-graphics-drivers out of Testing.
>
> comix - The version in Testing had security problems, so it was
> removed automatically (however, the insecure version stayed in
> Unstable). Almost a month later a fixed version was uploaded to stable
> and 10 days later it moved to Testing.
>
> Overall, I get the impression that Testing is a very good staging area
> for the next Stable, but it can be a 2nd-class citizen (compared to
> Stable and Unstable) for end-users, with packages getting very out of
> date or even disappearing from time to time. I need to keep this in
> mind for the future.
>
> David.
>

In general, bug-fixes are sent to unstable. After some testing they are
sent to testing. If a problem occurs, the testing package is removed and
at some point another unstable package will replace it. When all the
pacakges in testing are capable of working together and have no release
critical bugs, the whole becomes stable. The point is that package need
lots of testing which takes a lot of time (18 months). This means that
stable (and testing which will become stable) are at least 18 months
old. And unstable which gets the updates will be very new all the time.
if you want to see this in a graph, check out my web site below and view
the diagram.
-K
--
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| : :' : The Universal |mysite.verizon.net/kevin.mark/|
| `. `' Operating System | go to counter.li.org and |
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Old 04-14-2008, 11:47 PM
"Douglas A. Tutty"
 
Default Packages temporarily disappearing from Testing/Lenny

On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 08:20:00PM +0200, David wrote:

> comix - The version in Testing had security problems, so it was
> removed automatically (however, the insecure version stayed in
> Unstable). Almost a month later a fixed version was uploaded to stable
> and 10 days later it moved to Testing.

Everyone who thinks of using Sid needs to read and understand this
paragraph. "However, the insecure version stayed in Unstable". Just
because Sid includes the latest doesn't mean its the greatest. I don't
think that, e.g. aptitude pops up a warning "WARNING: you are trying to
install an insecure version of comix".

At least if you run testing, if something proves insecure it will
be either fixed in unstable and migrate after 10 days, or (I think)
will be removed from testing. It is often said that our testing branch
is like other distro's stable or release branch. This may be true, but
Unstable (Sid) is unstable and at any given time may have serious
security issues. Beware.

Doug.


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Old 04-15-2008, 01:41 AM
"David Fox"
 
Default Packages temporarily disappearing from Testing/Lenny

On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 1:02 PM, Ron Johnson <ron.l.johnson@cox.net> wrote:
> I've looked thru "man apt.conf", "man apt_preferences" and "man
> apt-get", but don't see any way to disable this.

I use aptitude exclusively, and I've never managed to get it to pull
in recommended packages. I basically go back in the buffer and cut &
paste if I want them. Not the best way to do the job, I suppose.

Then again , aptitude is not 'apt-get' but I'd hope much of the
functionality is the same. Going back to apt-get because aptitude
doesn't (or perceivably doesn't) handle recommends or other stuff the
same way is likely to cause more problems than it solves.

I know there is a switch something like "--with-recommends" but that
doesn't seem to work either.

And while I'm here, what is this "Unsupported proxy: false" when doing
a dist-upgrade? It happens every time I do an upgrade and it's related
to listing bugs, but that has never worked - although I usually ignore
it anway, but I'm kind of curious.




>
>
> - --
> Ron Johnson, Jr.
> Jefferson LA USA
>
> We want... a Shrubbery!!
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux)
>
> iD8DBQFIA7hbS9HxQb37XmcRAlhSAKDHTTtbWmYg/iYzXX/4nDBMcgRGMgCgyXCr
> SWRiZNeQDDuT9JifUc5Soqk=
> =bo+e
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>
>
>
>
> --
> To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-REQUEST@lists.debian.org
> with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org
>
>


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Old 04-15-2008, 04:34 AM
NN_il_Confusionario
 
Default Packages temporarily disappearing from Testing/Lenny

On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 06:41:05PM -0700, David Fox wrote:
> I use aptitude exclusively, and I've never managed to get it to pull
> in recommended packages.
> And while I'm here, what is this "Unsupported proxy: false" when doing
> a dist-upgrade?

have you compared the options used in /etc/apt/apt.conf* with the
possible ones in /usr/share/doc/apt/examples/configure-index.gz ?

--
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Informatica=arsenico: minime dosi in rari casi patologici, altrimenti letale.
Informatica=bomba: intelligente solo per gli stupidi che ci credono.


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Old 04-15-2008, 04:55 AM
NN_il_Confusionario
 
Default Packages temporarily disappearing from Testing/Lenny

On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 09:44:46PM -0700, David Fox wrote:
> On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 9:34 PM, NN_il_Confusionario wrote:
> > have you compared the options used in /etc/apt/apt.conf* with the
> > possible ones in /usr/share/doc/apt/examples/configure-index.gz ?
>
> I haven't yet looked there until now. I replaced apt.conf contents with the
> following, should be OK but I'll retry it this weekend when I do a
> regular dist-upgrade session.
>
> APT::Authentication::TrustCDROM "true";
> # Acquire::http::Proxy "false";
>
> Proxy::http.us.debian.org "DIRECT";
>
> (Oops I have to put the Acquire:: in front of that. Fixed.
>
> Now it looks like:
>
> Acquire::http::Proxy::http.us.debian.org "DIRECT";
>
> Still not sure if that is the direct syntax as the configuration has
> the apt heirarchy setup differently than that in apt.conf.
>
> APT:efault-Release "testing";
>
> APT::Cache-Limit 152582912;

do not forget /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/

I prefer to use explicit pinnings in /etc/apt/preferences and _avoid_ using
APT:efault-Release (but it is OK if you do not need more complex pinnings)

--
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Informatica=arsenico: minime dosi in rari casi patologici, altrimenti letale.
Informatica=bomba: intelligente solo per gli stupidi che ci credono.


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