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Old 08-10-2012, 05:50 PM
Ralf Mardorf
 
Default Debian desktop news

On Fri, 2012-08-10 at 13:07 -0400, Guy Gold wrote:
> Yes, there it is :
>
> from : http://wiki.debian.org/DebianWheezy
>
> =======================
> Packages & versions
>
> apt: 0.9.7
> kernel: Linux 3.2
> gcc: 4.7.1
>
> Gnome 3.4, KDE 4.8, Xfce 4.8
>
> libc: eglibc 2.13
> X Server: Xorg R7.7
>
> ======================
>
>
>
> On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 12:46 PM, Camaleón <noelamac@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > On Fri, 10 Aug 2012 10:35:52 -0400, Guy Gold wrote:
> >
> > > Does that mean that future releases of Debian will no longer support
> > > GNOME 2 ?
> >
> > Yes, I think so... since Wheezy and until Squeeze is supported.
> >
> > GNOME2 has been (or will be soon) deprecated/dead end from upstream GNOME
> > project (the same it was KDE3) so what can distributions do to handle
> > this? GNOME2 (and most important, its related libraries) is not going to
> > receive enhancements anymore so should distributions spend their scarce
> > resources in packaging a DE (with OTOH, is a rather bigger and complex
> > project) that is not being actively developed/evolved?
> >
> > Greetings,

Oops, I didn't notice your question. Yep, when I used testing one day
there was an upgrade from GNOME2 to GNOME3, without getting a warning
and it pulled in pulseaudio, while I choose Debian, because there were
no dependency to pulseaudio.
Until to many things are unclear regarding to Debian, e.g. systemd yes
or no, I prefer other distros at the moment.
Btw. I guess systemd soon or later will become part of all distros, due
to upstream dependencies.


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Old 08-12-2012, 03:58 AM
Stephen Allen
 
Default Debian desktop news

On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 09:55:13AM -0400, Dan Ritter wrote:
> On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 09:33:04AM -0400, Guy Gold wrote:

> GNOME 3 is quite different from the GNOME 2 series, and has made
> some people correspondingly upset. XFCE is fairly similar to
> GNOME 2, and may suit those people better. In particular, GNOME
> 3 really wants 3D accelerated video. XFCE doesn't care much
> about that.
>

I've heard this said by other prior too. Gnome-Shell works fine on an
older circa 2005 IBM X41 laptop. I've been running it since it came to
SID. The main criteria in my experience is having enough RAM. I have 1.5
Gb and Gnome-Shell runs in about a 300 Mb of ram, and that's with a
handful of Gnome-Shell-Extensions to boot. It runs faster and much
smoother than Gnome 2 ever did on this laptop!

So please lets stop the misinformation. Anything using the GTK2 toolkit
is a step backward simply because of the outstanding bugs that will
never be fixed. GTK3 and Gnome-Shell are an improvement in terms of
speed. If one wants the older look of the GTK2 Gnome interface, it can
be had, using Cinnamon. MATE isn't going anywhere in the future because
it relies on buggy GTK2.


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Old 08-12-2012, 04:09 AM
Ralf Mardorf
 
Default Debian desktop news

On Sat, 2012-08-11 at 23:58 -0400, Stephen Allen wrote:
> So please lets stop the misinformation.

GNOME3 eats much more resources. GNOME3 breaks every sane workflow for
artist.



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Old 08-12-2012, 08:37 AM
Joe
 
Default Debian desktop news

On Sat, 11 Aug 2012 23:58:54 -0400
Stephen Allen <marathon.durandal@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 09:55:13AM -0400, Dan Ritter wrote:
> > On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 09:33:04AM -0400, Guy Gold wrote:
>
> > GNOME 3 is quite different from the GNOME 2 series, and has made
> > some people correspondingly upset. XFCE is fairly similar to
> > GNOME 2, and may suit those people better. In particular, GNOME
> > 3 really wants 3D accelerated video. XFCE doesn't care much
> > about that.
> >
>
> I've heard this said by other prior too.

It doesn't 'really want' hardware acceleration, it *requires* it. I said
it because that's what the error message, as explained by the Gnome
website, said. The Gnome developers said they no longer felt the need to
support 'legacy' hardware, which is of course their absolute right.

> Gnome-Shell works fine on an
> older circa 2005 IBM X41 laptop. I've been running it since it came to
> SID. The main criteria in my experience is having enough RAM. I have
> 1.5 Gb and Gnome-Shell runs in about a 300 Mb of ram, and that's with
> a handful of Gnome-Shell-Extensions to boot. It runs faster and much
> smoother than Gnome 2 ever did on this laptop!

When Gnome 3 was introduced to sid on my 2GB workstation, it did not
work, and 'upgraded' me to the fallback which contained almost none of
my previous environment. As I posted at the time, it was as if an
update to Windows 7 told me my machine was now inadequate and gave me
Windows 98 instead.

I eventually worked out that my on-board graphics system should have at
least a rudimentary form of hardware acceleration, and found out how to
enable it in my driver, where it had been disabled by default. Gnome 3
would then run.

>
> So please lets stop the misinformation.

Indeed. Let's hear about peoples' actual experiences.

--
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Old 08-12-2012, 12:18 PM
Tom H
 
Default Debian desktop news

On Sun, Aug 12, 2012 at 4:37 AM, Joe <joe@jretrading.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 11 Aug 2012 23:58:54 -0400
> Stephen Allen <marathon.durandal@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 09:55:13AM -0400, Dan Ritter wrote:
>>>
>>> GNOME 3 is quite different from the GNOME 2 series, and has made
>>> some people correspondingly upset. XFCE is fairly similar to
>>> GNOME 2, and may suit those people better. In particular, GNOME
>>> 3 really wants 3D accelerated video. XFCE doesn't care much
>>> about that.
>>
>> I've heard this said by other prior too.
>
> It doesn't 'really want' hardware acceleration, it *requires* it. I said
> it because that's what the error message, as explained by the Gnome
> website, said. The Gnome developers said they no longer felt the need to
> support 'legacy' hardware, which is of course their absolute right.

Fedora 17's GNOME Shell doesn't "require," "really want," or even want
hardware acceleration. This [1] was the initial announcement. I have
no idea though whether Wheezy's got this or not.

http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/devel/2011-November/158976.html


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Old 08-12-2012, 12:25 PM
Ralf Mardorf
 
Default Debian desktop news

On Sun, 2012-08-12 at 08:18 -0400, Tom H wrote:
> On Sun, Aug 12, 2012 at 4:37 AM, Joe <joe@jretrading.com> wrote:
> > On Sat, 11 Aug 2012 23:58:54 -0400
> > Stephen Allen <marathon.durandal@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 09:55:13AM -0400, Dan Ritter wrote:
> >>>
> >>> GNOME 3 is quite different from the GNOME 2 series, and has made
> >>> some people correspondingly upset. XFCE is fairly similar to
> >>> GNOME 2, and may suit those people better. In particular, GNOME
> >>> 3 really wants 3D accelerated video. XFCE doesn't care much
> >>> about that.
> >>
> >> I've heard this said by other prior too.
> >
> > It doesn't 'really want' hardware acceleration, it *requires* it. I said
> > it because that's what the error message, as explained by the Gnome
> > website, said. The Gnome developers said they no longer felt the need to
> > support 'legacy' hardware, which is of course their absolute right.
>
> Fedora 17's GNOME Shell doesn't "require," "really want," or even want
> hardware acceleration. This [1] was the initial announcement. I have
> no idea though whether Wheezy's got this or not.
>
> http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/devel/2011-November/158976.html

I stopped reading at "There are probably bugs!", not really. However, it
seems bitty, just to run "Fedora" as a guest and not to run GNOME3 for
serious work.

Regards,
Ralf


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Old 08-12-2012, 01:01 PM
Pete Orrall
 
Default Debian desktop news

>> So please lets stop the misinformation.
>
> Indeed. Let's hear about peoples' actual experiences.

I've used Wheezy both on my Toshiba Tecra A8 and in a VM on a previous
workstation. I was not impressed at all with Gnome3's requirement for
graphic acceleration to just run the desktop. My laptop uses an Intel
graphics chip and the (now fried) workstation used an older nVidia
GeForce 7 series card. At the time that was using just the nv driver.

Just my $0.02.

--
Pete Orrall
pete@cs1x.com
"If there isn't a way, I'll make one."


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Old 08-12-2012, 06:00 PM
Stephen Allen
 
Default Debian desktop news

On Sun, Aug 12, 2012 at 06:09:19AM +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> On Sat, 2012-08-11 at 23:58 -0400, Stephen Allen wrote:
> > So please lets stop the misinformation.
>
> GNOME3 eats much more resources. GNOME3 breaks every sane workflow for
> artist.

Of course it does, as I stated, Again, on an old laptop like mine as
stated, I have hand no problem running Debian Gnome-Shell for some time.

In terms of work-flow, being a "sane" one is quite subjective. I
understand that most people don't like to adapt to new things and get
set in their ways -- but if we all did that, no progress would ever be
made. Tends to get worse as we age too, which makes moi quite an
anomaly.

Ralf have you tried Cinnamon?


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Old 08-12-2012, 06:27 PM
Ralf Mardorf
 
Default Debian desktop news

On Sun, 2012-08-12 at 14:00 -0400, Stephen Allen wrote:
> I understand that most people don't like to adapt to new things and get
> set in their ways -- but if we all did that, no progress would ever be
> made.

Yesno. I still use the same forks and knives as I used in my childhood,
but in my childhood the television set was black and white, today it's a
color TV set.

> Tends to get worse as we age too

Yesno. It still belongs to the kind of progress.


> Ralf have you tried Cinnamon?

No, but I already checked if Mate and Cinnamon are available for
different distros. I won't be trapped by one distro. I switch distros,
when ever I guess that it's less work to get what I want.

Thank you for mention Cinnamon. I already heard about it, but Xfce and
LXDE seem to be the most common DEs for people who used GNOME2 in the
past and who are subscribed to Linux audio lists .

At the moment I'll stay with Xfce.

Regards,
Ralf


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