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Old 08-08-2012, 04:23 PM
Camaleón
 
Default Will upcoming Debian 8 release default to XFCE for the CD media?

Hello,

Subject says it all.

I ask because I've read this from two different sources¹ now (the other
magazine is written in Spanish), so is this true?

I could only find this mailing list thread² as the official reference but
from the comments on there it does not look like a final decision has
been taken yet on the proposed change and this is a rather big diversion
from the usual default to be passed so inadvertently to the users (yes,
plain users do not read "debian-devel" ;-P).

¹http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTE1NTk
²http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2012/08/msg00029.html

Greetings,

--
Camaleón


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Old 08-08-2012, 05:35 PM
Brian
 
Default Will upcoming Debian 8 release default to XFCE for the CD media?

On Wed 08 Aug 2012 at 16:23:28 +0000, Camaleón wrote:

> Subject says it all.

How can this be [OT]? It's about Debian. It concerns Wheezy. And the
installer is involved, too.

> I ask because I've read this from two different sources¹ now (the other
> magazine is written in Spanish), so is this true?
>
> I could only find this mailing list thread² as the official reference but
> from the comments on there it does not look like a final decision has
> been taken yet on the proposed change and this is a rather big diversion
> from the usual default to be passed so inadvertently to the users (yes,
> plain users do not read "debian-devel" ;-P).

The decision could possibly be reversed if someone could find and
implement a way of getting the GNOME task on CD-1.


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Old 08-08-2012, 05:45 PM
Camaleón
 
Default Will upcoming Debian 8 release default to XFCE for the CD media?

On Wed, 08 Aug 2012 18:35:44 +0100, Brian wrote:

> On Wed 08 Aug 2012 at 16:23:28 +0000, Camaleón wrote:
>
>> Subject says it all.
>
> How can this be [OT]? It's about Debian. It concerns Wheezy. And the
> installer is involved, too.

I tagged as OT because the scope (chit-chat) is out of the technical
issues expected here. And it concerns Jessie, not Wheezy (please, don't
scare me! ;-) )

>> I ask because I've read this from two different sources¹ now (the other
>> magazine is written in Spanish), so is this true?
>>
>> I could only find this mailing list thread² as the official reference
>> but from the comments on there it does not look like a final decision
>> has been taken yet on the proposed change and this is a rather big
>> diversion from the usual default to be passed so inadvertently to the
>> users (yes, plain users do not read "debian-devel" ;-P).
>
> The decision

So you think is it a firm decision? :-?

> could possibly be reversed if someone could find and implement a way of
> getting the GNOME task on CD-1.

I wonder what the other linux distributions are doing in this regard,
what the GNOME teams (Debian and upstream) think about it and what other
desktop environments can be also considered as good options to be used
for the default.

I'm afraid there are many questions over the table.

Greetings,

--
Camaleón


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Old 08-08-2012, 06:21 PM
Brian
 
Default Will upcoming Debian 8 release default to XFCE for the CD media?

On Wed 08 Aug 2012 at 17:45:40 +0000, Camaleón wrote:

> On Wed, 08 Aug 2012 18:35:44 +0100, Brian wrote:
>
> > On Wed 08 Aug 2012 at 16:23:28 +0000, Camaleón wrote:
> >
> >> Subject says it all.
> >
> > How can this be [OT]? It's about Debian. It concerns Wheezy. And the
> > installer is involved, too.
>
> I tagged as OT because the scope (chit-chat) is out of the technical
> issues expected here. And it concerns Jessie, not Wheezy (please, don't
> scare me! ;-) )

Be frightened; very frightened!

> >> I ask because I've read this from two different sources¹ now (the other
> >> magazine is written in Spanish), so is this true?
> >>
> >> I could only find this mailing list thread² as the official reference
> >> but from the comments on there it does not look like a final decision
> >> has been taken yet on the proposed change and this is a rather big
> >> diversion from the usual default to be passed so inadvertently to the
> >> users (yes, plain users do not read "debian-devel" ;-P).
> >
> > The decision
>
> So you think is it a firm decision? :-?

The tasksel maintainer has made it so.

> > could possibly be reversed if someone could find and implement a way of
> > getting the GNOME task on CD-1.
>
> I wonder what the other linux distributions are doing in this regard,
> what the GNOME teams (Debian and upstream) think about it and what other
> desktop environments can be also considered as good options to be used
> for the default.
>
> I'm afraid there are many questions over the table.

The Debian GNOME team (or one or two of them) may not be over the moon
but none of them maintain tasksel. Upstream doesn't count.


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Old 08-08-2012, 09:25 PM
Rob Owens
 
Default Will upcoming Debian 8 release default to XFCE for the CD media?

On Wed, Aug 08, 2012 at 05:45:40PM +0000, Camaleón wrote:
>
> I wonder what the other linux distributions are doing in this regard,
> what the GNOME teams (Debian and upstream) think about it and what other
> desktop environments can be also considered as good options to be used
> for the default.
>
I always thought it would be a good idea to use XFCE instead of Gnome 3,
but make it look like Gnome 2 (like Xubuntu does, or at least used to --
I haven't used it in a while). It feels very at home for Gnome 2 users,
and I think it's important for Debian to provide some consistency to
users from one release to the next. I realize the Gnome upstream has
made this difficult recently...

-Rob


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Old 08-08-2012, 09:31 PM
Keith McKenzie
 
Default Will upcoming Debian 8 release default to XFCE for the CD media?

On 8 August 2012 17:23, Camaleón <noelamac@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> Subject says it all.
>
> I ask because I've read this from two different sources¹ now (the other
> magazine is written in Spanish), so is this true?
>
> I could only find this mailing list thread² as the official reference but
> from the comments on there it does not look like a final decision has
> been taken yet on the proposed change and this is a rather big diversion
> from the usual default to be passed so inadvertently to the users (yes,
> plain users do not read "debian-devel" ;-P).
>
> ¹http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTE1NTk
> ²http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2012/08/msg00029.html
>
> Greetings,
>
> --
> Camaleón

The present testing(wheezy) CD-1 gives a choice of Gnome, KDE, XFCE,
or LXDE but if one is selected, I believe it will be downloaded &
installed, because when I didn't have a network connection, it only
installed X & xterm, & not even a WM. I apt-get installed Fluxbox
later & everything worked OK.

HTH
--
Sent from FOSS (Free Open Source Software)
Debian GNU/Linux


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Old 08-08-2012, 10:52 PM
Greg Madden
 
Default Will upcoming Debian 8 release default to XFCE for the CD media?

On Wednesday 08 August 2012 1:31:05 pm Keith McKenzie wrote:
> On 8 August 2012 17:23, Camaleón <noelamac@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hello,
> >
> > Subject says it all.
> >
> > I ask because I've read this from two different sources¹ now (the other
> > magazine is written in Spanish), so is this true?
> >
> > I could only find this mailing list thread² as the official reference but
> > from the comments on there it does not look like a final decision has
> > been taken yet on the proposed change and this is a rather big diversion
> > from the usual default to be passed so inadvertently to the users (yes,
> > plain users do not read "debian-devel" ;-P).
> >
> > ¹http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTE1NTk
> > ²http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2012/08/msg00029.html
> >
> > Greetings,
> >
> > --
> > Camaleón
>
> The present testing(wheezy) CD-1 gives a choice of Gnome, KDE, XFCE,
> or LXDE but if one is selected, I believe it will be downloaded &
> installed, because when I didn't have a network connection, it only
> installed X & xterm, & not even a WM. I apt-get installed Fluxbox
> later & everything worked OK.
>
> HTH
> --
> Sent from FOSS (Free Open Source Software)
> Debian GNU/Linux

Installed cd-1 in a Vbox instance, used the 'no network mirror' option. Without a
mirror I get two selections in the 'tasksel' dialog .
1. Debian desktop environment
2. standard

This looks like a very large net install image . You will need more than one cd to
have a desktop/ WM environment.

I can remember installing Debian from floppies, it seems cd's are like floppies
now. One dvd might contain enough for a complete graphical system, have not
looked at the dvd's.

--
Greg Madden
Precision Air Balance, Inc.
Phone: (907)276-0461


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Old 08-09-2012, 01:59 PM
Camaleón
 
Default Will upcoming Debian 8 release default to XFCE for the CD media?

On Wed, 08 Aug 2012 19:21:25 +0100, Brian wrote:

> On Wed 08 Aug 2012 at 17:45:40 +0000, Camaleón wrote:

>> > How can this be [OT]? It's about Debian. It concerns Wheezy. And the
>> > installer is involved, too.
>>
>> I tagged as OT because the scope (chit-chat) is out of the technical
>> issues expected here. And it concerns Jessie, not Wheezy (please, don't
>> scare me! ;-) )
>
> Be frightened; very frightened!

You're right! Oh-My...

>> > The decision
>>
>> So you think is it a firm decision? :-?
>
> The tasksel maintainer has made it so.

Without asking to their user base nor a single survey to get some
feedback before a final move like this... nothing? :-?

>> > could possibly be reversed if someone could find and implement a way
>> > of getting the GNOME task on CD-1.
>>
>> I wonder what the other linux distributions are doing in this regard,
>> what the GNOME teams (Debian and upstream) think about it and what
>> other desktop environments can be also considered as good options to be
>> used for the default.
>>
>> I'm afraid there are many questions over the table.
>
> The Debian GNOME team (or one or two of them) may not be over the moon
> but none of them maintain tasksel. Upstream doesn't count.

But one could expect the tasksel team asks about this change to the rest
of the involved teams (e.g., boot/cd and the others in charge of the DE
packages such as GNOME/KDE/XFCE/LXDE...), right? I don't mean to sound
rude but this seems to be a rather quick decision with little debate over
it.

Greetings,

--
Camaleón


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Old 08-09-2012, 02:13 PM
Camaleón
 
Default Will upcoming Debian 8 release default to XFCE for the CD media?

On Wed, 08 Aug 2012 17:25:29 -0400, Rob Owens wrote:

> On Wed, Aug 08, 2012 at 05:45:40PM +0000, Camaleón wrote:
>>
>> I wonder what the other linux distributions are doing in this regard,
>> what the GNOME teams (Debian and upstream) think about it and what
>> other desktop environments can be also considered as good options to be
>> used for the default.
>>
> I always thought it would be a good idea to use XFCE instead of Gnome 3,

Do you really think that XFCE is tested in the same way that GNOME (and
the same goes for Razor-QT and KDE, for instance)? I mean, there are more
GNOME/KDE users out there than XFCE/LXDE/Razor-QT and more users means
well probed software. To make a DE as a default for a distribution
without being tested intensively can give a bad impression to newcomers.

> but make it look like Gnome 2 (like Xubuntu does, or at least used to --
> I haven't used it in a while). It feels very at home for Gnome 2 users,
> and I think it's important for Debian to provide some consistency to
> users from one release to the next. I realize the Gnome upstream has
> made this difficult recently...

Which leads to another question: do you people seriously think there's
any gain in promoting an old toolkit such as GTK+2 over GTK+3? If users
don't like/don't want the new gnome-shell desktop paradigm, wouldn't be
better to join forces with Cinnamon UI instead? Or looking for another
alternatives to be the default?

Greetings,

--
Camaleón


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Old 08-09-2012, 02:24 PM
Camaleón
 
Default Will upcoming Debian 8 release default to XFCE for the CD media?

On Wed, 08 Aug 2012 22:31:05 +0100, Keith McKenzie wrote:

> On 8 August 2012 17:23, Camaleón <noelamac@gmail.com> wrote:

>> I ask because I've read this from two different sources¹ now (the other
>> magazine is written in Spanish), so is this true?

(...)

> The present testing(wheezy) CD-1 gives a choice of Gnome, KDE, XFCE, or
> LXDE but if one is selected, I believe it will be downloaded &
> installed, because when I didn't have a network connection, it only
> installed X & xterm, & not even a WM. I apt-get installed Fluxbox later
> & everything worked OK.

The first CD ISO of Debian has always given the possibility to trigger
the installalation of the desktop environments you mention but only when
using an Internet connection and only GNOME if you are not connected to
the Internet (or manually select to use no mirrors at all).

So, as far as I understand -and since this new change- the only option to
install a DE from the first CD image (and no network link) will be just
XFCE and people wanting to get GNOME right after the installation
finishes will have to either a) get the new ISO image (bigger) or b)
using external repositories when installing -which requires a good/stable
connection.

Greetings,

--
Camaleón


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