Celejar writes:
> You are perfectly free to create your own work and compete with me for
> the same audiences and dollars; the only thing you can't do is copy
> _my_ work.

Thus you have a monopoly on the reproduction of copies of your work.
--
John Hasler


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On Tue, 2012-08-07 at 18:03 -0500, John Hasler wrote:
> Celejar writes:
> > You are perfectly free to create your own work and compete with me for
> > the same audiences and dollars; the only thing you can't do is copy
> > _my_ work.
>
> Thus you have a monopoly on the reproduction of copies of your work.

@ Celejar: Thus the human race is in competition, every single human
with each other?! Instead of sharing knowledge, we prefer to show who
has got the biggest dick?! Wow, I star believing we are from god and
that we aren't apes, since apes aren't that idiotic. Any women here with
a dick? No? Let's go to church and ignore ethics, truth, everything
good. Evil is the new good!

Barf!

Apologize, but I can't stand that old worldview. I only know people who
steal ideas of other people and than claim bullshit like "You are
perfectly free to create your own work and compete with me".

People who have good own ideas, again and again, don't fear to share
their ideas for free. Usually thieves fear to share their stolen ideas.

I don't claim that you, Celejar, are one of them! Don't get me wrong!

I just claim that your model died wit the dinos, a long, long time
before we were born.

Regards,
Ralf



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> > Celejar writes: the only thing you can't do is copy

Btw. I'm also against copying, if somebody makes knowledge available for
free (as in bear) and other folks copy it, "close the free" knowledge
and take money!

I don't like money! I prefer exchange and altruism. Yes, bankers have
nothing to offer, they should die!!! Dealing with food to make money,
while humans die because they've got nothing to eat. dealing with
knowledge, it's a shame!




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On Tue, 07 Aug 2012 18:03:29 -0500
John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> wrote:

> Celejar writes:
> > You are perfectly free to create your own work and compete with me for
> > the same audiences and dollars; the only thing you can't do is copy
> > _my_ work.
>
> Thus you have a monopoly on the reproduction of copies of your work.

Okay, but this is veering close to sophistry; I can also say that any
private ownership of property is monopolistic, since it gives the owner
a monopoly on the use of some particular piece of property.

Celejar


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I wrote:
> Thus you have a monopoly on the reproduction of copies of your work.

Celajar writes:
> Okay, but this is veering close to sophistry; I can also say that any
> private ownership of property is monopolistic, since it gives the
> owner a monopoly on the use of some particular piece of property.

Monopolies are commoplace and not, in and of themselves, necessarily
either illegal or immoral. Nonetheless copyright creates monopolies
where none would otherwise exist: that is its purpose.
--
John Hasler


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On Tue, 2012-08-07 at 21:29 -0400, Celejar wrote:
> I can also say that any private ownership of property is monopolistic,
> since it gives the owner a monopoly on the use of some particular
> piece of property.

Since I didn't follow the whole thread: Are you aware that somebody's
intelectual property could be the ownership of somebody else?

If you're on work and you've got the idea how to improve something
regarding to your job, than you're the copyright holder (it's your
intelectual property), but you're not the owner. At least not for
averaged employment agreements in Germany.

http://www.dict.cc/?s=ownership
http://www.dict.cc/?s=property

Language barriers already make it difficult to understand for humans
with different native languages. In our native languages we have anyway
some kind of secret languages.



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On Wed, 08 Aug 2012 04:01:40 +0200
Ralf Mardorf <ralf.mardorf@alice-dsl.net> wrote:

> On Tue, 2012-08-07 at 21:29 -0400, Celejar wrote:
> > I can also say that any private ownership of property is monopolistic,
> > since it gives the owner a monopoly on the use of some particular
> > piece of property.
>
> Since I didn't follow the whole thread: Are you aware that somebody's
> intelectual property could be the ownership of somebody else?

Not quite sure what you're saying here.

> If you're on work and you've got the idea how to improve something
> regarding to your job, than you're the copyright holder (it's your
> intelectual property), but you're not the owner. At least not for
> averaged employment agreements in Germany.
>
> http://www.dict.cc/?s=ownership
> http://www.dict.cc/?s=property
>
> Language barriers already make it difficult to understand for humans
> with different native languages. In our native languages we have anyway
> some kind of secret languages.

I do think we may have a language barrier here.

Celejar


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On Tue, 07 Aug 2012 20:52:13 -0500
John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> wrote:

> I wrote:
> > Thus you have a monopoly on the reproduction of copies of your work.
>
> Celajar writes:
> > Okay, but this is veering close to sophistry; I can also say that any
> > private ownership of property is monopolistic, since it gives the
> > owner a monopoly on the use of some particular piece of property.
>
> Monopolies are commoplace and not, in and of themselves, necessarily
> either illegal or immoral. Nonetheless copyright creates monopolies
> where none would otherwise exist: that is its purpose.

I can say the same about the very institution of private property; it
creates a monopoly (only I have the legal right to use a particular
piece of property) where none would otherwise exist, and that is its
very purpose.

Celejar


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On Tue, 2012-08-07 at 23:09 -0400, Celejar wrote:
> I do think we may have a language barrier here.

Indeed, my fault, since my English is broken. If you and I would try to
detect a consensus, we could hire a translator, but cooperation between
countries seems to be impossible. If we won't have patents and hidden
knowledge, we perhaps would have overcome poverty etc., but less people
are interested.


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Celejar writes:
> I can say the same about the very institution of private property; it
> creates a monopoly (only I have the legal right to use a particular
> piece of property) where none would otherwise exist, and that is its
> very purpose.

You and I cannot eat the same apple. We can both have the same idea.
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