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Old 07-10-2012, 12:03 PM
Muhammad Yousuf Khan
 
Default Why compiling.

This is a very basic question but confusing me for very long. so i
need your help.

why people do compiling. i have heard many time that people are
compiling kernel on debian.
what is the reason for this? i am using debian for almost 1.5 year and
have been using it on different platform in CLI mode. but no need of
compiling in this time window.

secondly i have read that people are compiling Squid SAMBA and all
the other packages but why. i am using KVM, squid samba etc for
almost more then 1 year and all the servers are providing me what ever
i asled all the services are very comprehensive and could be fit in
any environment then why compiling?


Thanks,


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Old 07-10-2012, 12:10 PM
Kousik Maiti
 
Default Why compiling.

People do compilation for many reason.

They want to learn more. They want to run packages from source code.
If you are going to compile kernel from source you can learn more details about kernel.




On Tue, Jul 10, 2012 at 5:33 PM, Muhammad Yousuf Khan <sirtcp@gmail.com> wrote:


This is a very basic question but confusing me for very long. so i

need your help.



why people do compiling. i have heard many time that people are

compiling kernel on debian.

what is the reason for this? i am using debian for almost 1.5 year and

have been using it on different platform in CLI mode. but no need of

compiling in this time window.



secondly i have read Â*that people are compiling Squid SAMBA and all

the other packages but why. i am using KVM, squid samba etc Â*for

almost more then 1 year and all the servers are providing me what ever

i asled all the services are very comprehensive and could be fit in

any environment then why compiling?





Thanks,





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Wishing you the very best of everything, always!!!
Kousik Maiti(কৌশিক মাইতি)
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Registered Ubuntu User # 28654
 
Old 07-10-2012, 01:55 PM
Gary Dale
 
Default Why compiling.

On 10/07/12 08:03 AM, Muhammad Yousuf Khan wrote:

This is a very basic question but confusing me for very long. so i
need your help.

why people do compiling. i have heard many time that people are
compiling kernel on debian.
what is the reason for this? i am using debian for almost 1.5 year and
have been using it on different platform in CLI mode. but no need of
compiling in this time window.

secondly i have read that people are compiling Squid SAMBA and all
the other packages but why. i am using KVM, squid samba etc for
almost more then 1 year and all the servers are providing me what ever
i asled all the services are very comprehensive and could be fit in
any environment then why compiling?


Thanks,
There is little need to compile code. In fact, doing so will probably
have a negative impact on your system's stability, especially if you use
other than the official sources.


People who prepare the individual packages or distributions are usually
the only ones who need to compile code. However, some brave/foolhardy
souls must have the latest code from the developer's source and compile
their own. This is invariably a bad idea.


When you leave the safety of your distribution's code repositories, you
become responsible for managing the various inter-dependencies between
programs and libraries. This is not a trivial task.


If you need later code than is available from the official repositories,
look for backports or, in the case of Debian, move to testing. In the
testing repositories you get up to date code that is somewhat stable for
non-critical work.


Compiling from the official sources is a slightly different issue. For
example, some people will compile a custom kernel from the official
sources to do one of several things:

- create a kernel that doesn't need an initramfs - everything is built in
- create a smaller kernel that contains only the options they need -
rendering it non-portable

- creating a kernel with non-standard options for a particular situation.

Other code may need similar tweaking. I once compiled a CUPS driver for
a printer to include a bug fix I needed that hadn't made it into SID yet.


However, these situations are rare. For the vast majority of people,
compiling is something you shouldn't worry about. The package
maintainers do a great job of getting everything to work together
properly. Don't undermine their work.



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Old 07-10-2012, 02:15 PM
Muhammad Yousuf Khan
 
Default Why compiling.

On Tue, Jul 10, 2012 at 6:55 PM, Gary Dale <garydale@rogers.com> wrote:
> On 10/07/12 08:03 AM, Muhammad Yousuf Khan wrote:
>>
>> This is a very basic question but confusing me for very long. so i
>> need your help.
>>
>> why people do compiling. i have heard many time that people are
>> compiling kernel on debian.
>> what is the reason for this? i am using debian for almost 1.5 year and
>> have been using it on different platform in CLI mode. but no need of
>> compiling in this time window.
>>
>> secondly i have read that people are compiling Squid SAMBA and all
>> the other packages but why. i am using KVM, squid samba etc for
>> almost more then 1 year and all the servers are providing me what ever
>> i asled all the services are very comprehensive and could be fit in
>> any environment then why compiling?
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>
> There is little need to compile code. In fact, doing so will probably have a
> negative impact on your system's stability, especially if you use other than
> the official sources.
>
> People who prepare the individual packages or distributions are usually the
> only ones who need to compile code. However, some brave/foolhardy souls must
> have the latest code from the developer's source and compile their own. This
> is invariably a bad idea.
>
> When you leave the safety of your distribution's code repositories, you
> become responsible for managing the various inter-dependencies between
> programs and libraries. This is not a trivial task.
>
> If you need later code than is available from the official repositories,
> look for backports or, in the case of Debian, move to testing. In the
> testing repositories you get up to date code that is somewhat stable for
> non-critical work.
>
> Compiling from the official sources is a slightly different issue. For
> example, some people will compile a custom kernel from the official sources
> to do one of several things:
> - create a kernel that doesn't need an initramfs - everything is built in
> - create a smaller kernel that contains only the options they need -
> rendering it non-portable
> - creating a kernel with non-standard options for a particular situation.
>
> Other code may need similar tweaking. I once compiled a CUPS driver for a
> printer to include a bug fix I needed that hadn't made it into SID yet.
>
> However, these situations are rare. For the vast majority of people,
> compiling is something you shouldn't worry about. The package maintainers do
> a great job of getting everything to work together properly. Don't undermine
> their work.
>
noway i am undermining their work but i have heard that people do
compile kernels and some time hardware vendors suggest users to
compile their drivers from source though i couldn't get the idea of
what they are discussing.

so after reading your detailed answer things are crystal clear. i
applicate the effort and i thank you for help.

>
>
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>


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Old 07-10-2012, 02:19 PM
Camaleón
 
Default Why compiling.

On Tue, 10 Jul 2012 17:03:12 +0500, Muhammad Yousuf Khan wrote:

> This is a very basic question but confusing me for very long. so i need
> your help.
>
> why people do compiling.

For many reasons but mainly because there are no binaries available for
your system and you have to get the sources and build a package.

> i have heard many time that people are compiling kernel on debian.

That's a good example.

> what is the reason for this? i am using debian for almost 1.5 year and
> have been using it on different platform in CLI mode. but no need of
> compiling in this time window.

I don't like compiling so much within my main systems, it requires many
libraries and packages to be installed in the system and I prefer to keep
packaging at the bare minimum... so then, why I compile a kernel? Mainly
for debugging purposes.

For instance, I have many problems with my wireless card that uses
several kernel modules (brcmsmac, cordic, crdca, brcmutils, mac80211...)
and I need to try either a) patches that solve my reconnect problems or
b) updated versions of these modules, thus I need compiling a new kernel.

People also compile kernels because that's the only way to get the latest
upstream kernel and latest kernels usually provide support for new
devices or have nice functionalities not present in older reelases.

> secondly i have read that people are compiling Squid SAMBA and all the
> other packages but why. i am using KVM, squid samba etc for almost more
> then 1 year and all the servers are providing me what ever i asled all
> the services are very comprehensive and could be fit in any environment
> then why compiling?

When all works fine there's usually no need to compile things.

People compile becasue they want to add a new feature not present in the
current binary (for example, they want samba with a determined flag or
parameter "on/off"), to solve a problem/bug or to apply a patch, etc...

Greetings,

--
Camaleón


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Old 07-10-2012, 02:25 PM
Muhammad Yousuf Khan
 
Default Why compiling.

On Tue, Jul 10, 2012 at 7:19 PM, Camaleón <noelamac@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 10 Jul 2012 17:03:12 +0500, Muhammad Yousuf Khan wrote:
>
>> This is a very basic question but confusing me for very long. so i need
>> your help.
>>
>> why people do compiling.
>
> For many reasons but mainly because there are no binaries available for
> your system and you have to get the sources and build a package.
>
>> i have heard many time that people are compiling kernel on debian.
>
> That's a good example.
>
>> what is the reason for this? i am using debian for almost 1.5 year and
>> have been using it on different platform in CLI mode. but no need of
>> compiling in this time window.
>
> I don't like compiling so much within my main systems, it requires many
> libraries and packages to be installed in the system and I prefer to keep
> packaging at the bare minimum... so then, why I compile a kernel? Mainly
> for debugging purposes.
>
> For instance, I have many problems with my wireless card that uses
> several kernel modules (brcmsmac, cordic, crdca, brcmutils, mac80211...)
> and I need to try either a) patches that solve my reconnect problems or
> b) updated versions of these modules, thus I need compiling a new kernel.
>
> People also compile kernels because that's the only way to get the latest
> upstream kernel and latest kernels usually provide support for new
> devices or have nice functionalities not present in older reelases.
>
>> secondly i have read that people are compiling Squid SAMBA and all the
>> other packages but why. i am using KVM, squid samba etc for almost more
>> then 1 year and all the servers are providing me what ever i asled all
>> the services are very comprehensive and could be fit in any environment
>> then why compiling?
>
> When all works fine there's usually no need to compile things.
>
> People compile becasue they want to add a new feature not present in the
> current binary (for example, they want samba with a determined flag or
> parameter "on/off"), to solve a problem/bug or to apply a patch, etc...
>
Thanks very informative

> Greetings,
>
> --
> Camaleón
>
>
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>


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Old 07-10-2012, 03:54 PM
Mike McClain
 
Default Why compiling.

Howdy,

On Tue, Jul 10, 2012 at 05:03:12PM +0500, Muhammad Yousuf Khan wrote:
>
> why people do compiling. i have heard many time that people are
> compiling kernel on debian.
> what is the reason for this? i am using debian for almost 1.5 year and
> have been using it on different platform in CLI mode. but no need of
> compiling in this time window.

The kernel provided when you install Linux, Debian included, has to work
on nearly every system out there so it includes drivers for nearly piece
of hardware that can be installed in a PC.

I always compile a kernel with only the hardware I have in my computer.
This gives me a smaller memory footprint and a smaller disk footprint.

It's all a matter of what you want.
Mike
--
Satisfied user of Linux since 1997.
O< ascii ribbon campaign - stop html mail - www.asciiribbon.org


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Old 07-10-2012, 07:08 PM
Celejar
 
Default Why compiling.

On Tue, 10 Jul 2012 09:55:23 -0400
Gary Dale <garydale@rogers.com> wrote:

> On 10/07/12 08:03 AM, Muhammad Yousuf Khan wrote:
> > This is a very basic question but confusing me for very long. so i
> > need your help.
> >
> > why people do compiling. i have heard many time that people are
> > compiling kernel on debian.
> > what is the reason for this? i am using debian for almost 1.5 year and
> > have been using it on different platform in CLI mode. but no need of
> > compiling in this time window.
> >
> > secondly i have read that people are compiling Squid SAMBA and all
> > the other packages but why. i am using KVM, squid samba etc for
> > almost more then 1 year and all the servers are providing me what ever
> > i asled all the services are very comprehensive and could be fit in
> > any environment then why compiling?
> >
> >
> > Thanks,
> There is little need to compile code. In fact, doing so will probably
> have a negative impact on your system's stability, especially if you use
> other than the official sources.

Here's my case: I run Stable + Backports, and I want aircrack. It isn't
in Stable, and trying to install it from Sid will force me to upgrade
all kinds of core libraries. [I haven't actually tried compiling it
yet, and for all I know, it may have real dependencies on the later
libraries.]

> People who prepare the individual packages or distributions are usually
> the only ones who need to compile code. However, some brave/foolhardy
> souls must have the latest code from the developer's source and compile
> their own. This is invariably a bad idea.
>
> When you leave the safety of your distribution's code repositories, you
> become responsible for managing the various inter-dependencies between
> programs and libraries. This is not a trivial task.
>
> If you need later code than is available from the official repositories,
> look for backports or, in the case of Debian, move to testing. In the
> testing repositories you get up to date code that is somewhat stable for
> non-critical work.

aircrack isn't in testing.

> Compiling from the official sources is a slightly different issue. For
> example, some people will compile a custom kernel from the official
> sources to do one of several things:
> - create a kernel that doesn't need an initramfs - everything is built in
> - create a smaller kernel that contains only the options they need -
> rendering it non-portable

And to get rid of all sorts of code that is irrelevant to my machine,
which doesn't even have the hardware for most of it. There are surely
also security benefits from not having all kinds of superfluous kernel
mode code hanging around.

And why do I care whether the kernel I compile locally for a
specific machine is portable?

...

> However, these situations are rare. For the vast majority of
people,
> compiling is something you shouldn't worry about. The package
> maintainers do a great job of getting everything to work together
> properly. Don't undermine their work.

I certainly agree that compiling is rarely necessary, and ofter /
usually a bad idea.

Celejar


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Old 07-10-2012, 07:33 PM
Ralf Mardorf
 
Default Why compiling.

On Tue, 2012-07-10 at 17:03 +0500, Muhammad Yousuf Khan wrote:
> [snip] i have heard many time that people are compiling kernel on debian.

Some kernels with special patches are not always available for Debian.
Sometimes e.g. a kernel-rt is available, but sometimes it isn't. If e.g.
a kernel-rt should be available by a repository, I still might optimize
to e.g. the CPU I'm using.

> [snip]
> secondly i have read that people are compiling Squid SAMBA and all
> the other packages but why. i am using KVM, squid samba etc for
> almost more then 1 year and all the servers are providing me what ever
> i asled all the services are very comprehensive and could be fit in
> any environment then why compiling?

I compile software myself for at least three reasons.
1. In the past I often was a tester for e.g. Qtractor and I plan to do
it in the future again. It also is needed, if you wish to do
translations. Until now I never finished a translation.
2. Some software is missing functionality that works good enough for my
needs and sometimes software from git does provide the quality I need.
3. No distro can fit to everybody needs, you might need to get rid of
dependencies that make Linux unable to be used with e.g. professional
audio software.

Some people perhaps wish to learn/play. Since self-responsibility is
wanted, this could be a good way to learn more about Linux, it also
could break an install, but even this could help to learn more about
Linux.
Others maybe are hunting for latest versions only, this IMO is idiotic.
Sometimes I would be able to compile very old versions, because I prefer
those versions, this unfortunately isn't that easy to do.
I'm not programming for Linux. I did program older computers, however,
many people help programming, other people take care that FLOSS isn't
malicious, they might need to compile with special flags set, dunno, but
there are tons of reasons to compile FLOSS software ourself.

- Ralf



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Old 07-10-2012, 07:35 PM
Ralf Mardorf
 
Default Why compiling.

On Tue, 2012-07-10 at 21:33 +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> On Tue, 2012-07-10 at 17:03 +0500, Muhammad Yousuf Khan wrote:
> > [snip] i have heard many time that people are compiling kernel on debian.
>
> Some kernels with special patches are not always available for Debian.
> Sometimes e.g. a kernel-rt is available, but sometimes it isn't. If e.g.
> a kernel-rt should be available by a repository, I still might optimize
> to e.g. the CPU I'm using.
>
> > [snip]
> > secondly i have read that people are compiling Squid SAMBA and all
> > the other packages but why. i am using KVM, squid samba etc for
> > almost more then 1 year and all the servers are providing me what ever
> > i asled all the services are very comprehensive and could be fit in
> > any environment then why compiling?
>
> I compile software myself for at least three reasons.
> 1. In the past I often was a tester for e.g. Qtractor and I plan to do
> it in the future again. It also is needed, if you wish to do
> translations. Until now I never finished a translation.
> 2. Some software is missing functionality that works good enough for my
> needs and sometimes software from git does provide the quality I need.
> 3. No distro can fit to everybody needs, you might need to get rid of
> dependencies that make Linux unable to be used with e.g. professional
> audio software.
^^^^^^^^^ hardware
>
> Some people perhaps wish to learn/play. Since self-responsibility is
> wanted, this could be a good way to learn more about Linux, it also
> could break an install, but even this could help to learn more about
> Linux.
> Others maybe are hunting for latest versions only, this IMO is idiotic.
> Sometimes I would be able to compile very old versions, because I prefer
> those versions, this unfortunately isn't that easy to do.
> I'm not programming for Linux. I did program older computers, however,
> many people help programming, other people take care that FLOSS isn't
> malicious, they might need to compile with special flags set, dunno, but
> there are tons of reasons to compile FLOSS software ourself.
>
> - Ralf
>




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