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-   -   CD/DVD diagnostic tools needed (http://www.linux-archive.org/debian-user/679072-cd-dvd-diagnostic-tools-needed.html)

Keith McKenzie 07-01-2012 05:46 PM

CD/DVD diagnostic tools needed
 
On 1 July 2012 15:30, Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> wrote:

I'm having various random problems installing from Live CD's.

The problems are weird, inconsistent, and intermittent.

The first thing is to determine whether or not I have faulty hardware, be it the target box or the box that burns the CD.



I've already run memtest86 and Seagate disk diagnostics demonstrating that problems from that area is unlikely.



I need two diagnostics:

* 1. verify what's on the CD matches the ISO from which it was generated.

* * *[already have verified that the downloaded MD5SUM matches repository]

* 2. verify target system reads CD/DVD correctly.



For the first I require both Linux and Windows versions.

The second should probably be a Live CD itself.



Any ideas?
Most likely your media (cd/dvd), or the speed you are writing at.

When you burn a disc, do you check it against the iso's MD5; it may not have burned properly.

(Also, burn at a slow speed, even if it says it can be used at high speeds. 1x~4x)

Old cd drives don't like ReWriteable discs, & some just won't read some makes of disc.

(Just a couple of problems I had in the past.)



--
Sent from FOSS (Free Open Source Software)
Debian GNU/Linux

Chris Bannister 07-01-2012 11:34 PM

CD/DVD diagnostic tools needed
 
On Sun, Jul 01, 2012 at 04:24:05PM +0000, Camaleón wrote:
> On Sun, 01 Jul 2012 09:30:21 -0500, Richard Owlett wrote:
>
> > I'm having various random problems installing from Live CD's. The
> > problems are weird, inconsistent, and intermittent. The first thing is
> > to determine whether or not I have faulty hardware, be it the target box
> > or the box that burns the CD.
>
> Optical media is more and more becoming a complete headache. Have you
> considered installing from USB stick instead?
>
> Anyway, for inconsistent errors (now works, now doesn't), sometimes is
> better to replace the DVD drive for a new one (specially when is "old"
> for today standards which means 4/5 years), and given their current
> prices (~25€) that's something affordable.

Ouch!!, at least try different media first, some media are problematic
with some DVD/CD drives (according to some stuff I've read)

--
"If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people
who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the
oppressing." --- Malcolm X


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Istimsak 07-02-2012 12:01 AM

CD/DVD diagnostic tools needed
 
Optical medias are not reliable. Yet still work if you don't mind elbow grease. You have a faulty DVD/CD disk. Try multiple disks and make sure they are clean. If your system supports booting from USB, then install from a flash drive.

Chris Bannister <cbannister@slingshot.co.nz> wrote:

>On Sun, Jul 01, 2012 at 04:24:05PM +0000, Camaleón wrote:
>> On Sun, 01 Jul 2012 09:30:21 -0500, Richard Owlett wrote:
>>
>> > I'm having various random problems installing from Live CD's. The
>> > problems are weird, inconsistent, and intermittent. The first thing is
>> > to determine whether or not I have faulty hardware, be it the target box
>> > or the box that burns the CD.
>>
>> Optical media is more and more becoming a complete headache. Have you
>> considered installing from USB stick instead?
>>
>> Anyway, for inconsistent errors (now works, now doesn't), sometimes is
>> better to replace the DVD drive for a new one (specially when is "old"
>> for today standards which means 4/5 years), and given their current
>> prices (~25€) that's something affordable.
>
>Ouch!!, at least try different media first, some media are problematic
>with some DVD/CD drives (according to some stuff I've read)
>
>--
>"If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people
>who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the
>oppressing." --- Malcolm X
>
>
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>

Richard Owlett 07-02-2012 01:37 PM

CD/DVD diagnostic tools needed
 
Camaleón wrote:

On Sun, 01 Jul 2012 09:30:21 -0500, Richard Owlett wrote:


I'm having various random problems installing from Live CD's. The
problems are weird, inconsistent, and intermittent. The first thing is
to determine whether or not I have faulty hardware, be it the target box
or the box that burns the CD.


Optical media is more and more becoming a complete headache.


Why? The usual trend is for products to improve as they mature.
Is it media related? I only use write once media as I've had
no interest in adding to &/or modifying what is already on a
CD {self defeating for my usage style ;}


Is it application related? My *APPARENT & NOTICEABLE*
symptoms have Debian 6.x related. I've a collection of
LiveCD's and standalone diagnostic CD's that I use without
problems. I'm about to do another Ubuntu 10.10 test install.
If that goes well, I'll burn a copy of the ISO to a DVD of
the same production batch used for my Debian install.


I'm a slow typist - test install completed without apparent
symptoms.


Hmmm - now that I stop and think about it.
I believe all observed symptoms revolve around root password
not being recognized.

And Ubuntu forcibly prohibits root passwords.

Further musings - I believe all working installs have been
to sda1 - i.e. a physical partition. All others have been to
a partition under sda2 - an extended partition.


I see a set of diagnostic installs in my future - same
distro to physical partition and to a partition under an
extended partition. [I hesitated to say LVM until I double
check definitions.]



Have you considered installing from USB stick instead?


Yes. But by personality I'm the type that will the "WHY?" of
a failure before looking for a workaround. Besides I've the
time to do the grunt work of repetitive testing for the
underpinnings of a decent bug report even if I don't have
the skills to fix it.




Anyway, for inconsistent errors (now works, now doesn't), sometimes is
better to replace the DVD drive for a new one (specially when is "old"
for today standards which means 4/5 years), and given their current
prices (~25€) that's something affordable.


Cost of a replacement drive is not an issue. As I prefer
brick-n-mortar it would be 8 hour round trip to get one. I'm
in *VERY* RURAL south west Missouri (livestock much more
common than people ;)





I've already run memtest86 and Seagate disk diagnostics demonstrating
that problems from that area is unlikely.

I need two diagnostics:
1. verify what's on the CD matches the ISO from which it
was generated.
[already have verified that the downloaded MD5SUM
matches repository]


http://www.debian.org/CD/faq/index.en.html#verify


debian.org reminds me of the original CPM-80 manual, info
there but dense in all possible connotations of the word


Perhaps I should have specified I was looking for end user
friendly tool.






2. verify target system reads CD/DVD correctly.


(...)

Is your CD/DVD reader capable of booting from it?



yes




Greetings,




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Richard Owlett 07-02-2012 01:39 PM

CD/DVD diagnostic tools needed
 
Chris Bannister wrote:

On Sun, Jul 01, 2012 at 04:24:05PM +0000, Camaleón wrote:

On Sun, 01 Jul 2012 09:30:21 -0500, Richard Owlett wrote:


I'm having various random problems installing from Live CD's. The
problems are weird, inconsistent, and intermittent. The first thing is
to determine whether or not I have faulty hardware, be it the target box
or the box that burns the CD.


Optical media is more and more becoming a complete headache. Have you
considered installing from USB stick instead?

Anyway, for inconsistent errors (now works, now doesn't), sometimes is
better to replace the DVD drive for a new one (specially when is "old"
for today standards which means 4/5 years), and given their current
prices (~25€) that's something affordable.


Ouch!!, at least try different media first, some media are problematic
with some DVD/CD drives (according to some stuff I've read)



The reason was looking for end user friendly diagnostic tools ;)



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Camaleón 07-02-2012 02:37 PM

CD/DVD diagnostic tools needed
 
On Mon, 02 Jul 2012 11:34:00 +1200, Chris Bannister wrote:

> On Sun, Jul 01, 2012 at 04:24:05PM +0000, Camaleón wrote:
>> On Sun, 01 Jul 2012 09:30:21 -0500, Richard Owlett wrote:
>>
>> > I'm having various random problems installing from Live CD's. The
>> > problems are weird, inconsistent, and intermittent. The first thing
>> > is to determine whether or not I have faulty hardware, be it the
>> > target box or the box that burns the CD.
>>
>> Optical media is more and more becoming a complete headache. Have you
>> considered installing from USB stick instead?
>>
>> Anyway, for inconsistent errors (now works, now doesn't), sometimes is
>> better to replace the DVD drive for a new one (specially when is "old"
>> for today standards which means 4/5 years), and given their current
>> prices (~25€) that's something affordable.
>
> Ouch!!, at least try different media first, some media are problematic
> with some DVD/CD drives (according to some stuff I've read)

The above "weird, inconsistent, and intermittent" errors indicate some
CDs do work and some doesn't. If all the tests are being done in the same
way (same media, same writing speed, same burning tools...) there's a
high chance for the unit going bad.

Greetings,

--
Camaleón


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Henrique de Moraes Holschuh 07-02-2012 03:41 PM

CD/DVD diagnostic tools needed
 
On Mon, 02 Jul 2012, Richard Owlett wrote:
> Camalen wrote:
> >On Sun, 01 Jul 2012 09:30:21 -0500, Richard Owlett wrote:
> >
> >>I'm having various random problems installing from Live CD's. The
> >>problems are weird, inconsistent, and intermittent. The first thing is
> >>to determine whether or not I have faulty hardware, be it the target box
> >>or the box that burns the CD.
> >
> >Optical media is more and more becoming a complete headache.
>
> Why? The usual trend is for products to improve as they mature.

No. That was true when people valued quality over a few bucks. Nowadays,
everything that can be thrown out with just a minimal loss of quality starts
to get thrown out when the device gets "good enough". You cannot get any
good DVD or CD writers anymore, at least not for the definitions of good
(extremely low jitter and noise) you once could, for example.

Writeable media has the same problem.

Heck, you cannot even listen to CD audio with no frequency aliasing, zero
bus, and zero cpu usage anymore (i.e. using the analog or digital audio
output of the drive itself). The same way that you cannot buy a floppy
drive that is worth anything, let alone one that could work in IORDY mode,
e.g., for use in the Commodore Amiga.

--
"One disk to rule them all, One disk to find them. One disk to bring
them all and in the darkness grind them. In the Land of Redmond
where the shadows lie." -- The Silicon Valley Tarot
Henrique Holschuh


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Camalen 07-02-2012 03:50 PM

CD/DVD diagnostic tools needed
 
On Mon, 02 Jul 2012 08:37:34 -0500, Richard Owlett wrote:

> Camalen wrote:

>> Optical media is more and more becoming a complete headache.
>
> Why?

(...)

- Because these components are usually poorly manufactured and of very
bad quality (mixing plastic with laser that neeed a precise calibration
is not a bright good idea...) so it's normal to see them failing with
weird and random errors.

- Optical media and drives are hard/costly to debug.

- Optical media and drives are very slow for today needs and standards.

- They are hard and complex to manage because the needing for specific
drivers and applications for the OS and the rest of appliances.

> I'm a slow typist - test install completed without apparent symptoms.

Good for you :-)

> Hmmm - now that I stop and think about it. I believe all observed
> symptoms revolve around root password not being recognized.

If you reached that far it means the problem is not in the installation
media but elsewhere.

>> Have you considered installing from USB stick instead?
>
> Yes. But by personality I'm the type that will the "WHY?" of a failure
> before looking for a workaround.

The key here is "why" what?

You seemed to directly point (without providing more data) the origin of
the problem to be on the CD medium or drive unit so you will have to ask
you "why" you thought so.

What were the exact symptoms? What error did you get? In what stage of
the installation appeared?

>>> I need two diagnostics:
>>> 1. verify what's on the CD matches the ISO from which it
>>> was generated.
>>> [already have verified that the downloaded MD5SUM
>>> matches repository]
>>
>> http://www.debian.org/CD/faq/index.en.html#verify
>
> debian.org reminds me of the original CPM-80 manual, info there but
> dense in all possible connotations of the word
>
> Perhaps I should have specified I was looking for end user friendly
> tool.

There's not such friendly tools for checking CD/DVD optical media. Now
you see why I said there were a headache? The best example of this is
near us, in our linux world: working and developing with the scsi
layer ;-)

>>> 2. verify target system reads CD/DVD correctly.
>>
>> (...)
>>
>> Is your CD/DVD reader capable of booting from it?
>
>
> yes

Fine then. Now you can check if the unit is also working without problems
(reading from/writing to CDs/DVDs) once the system has been installed.

Greetings,

--
Camalen


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Chris Bannister 07-03-2012 06:17 AM

CD/DVD diagnostic tools needed
 
On Mon, Jul 02, 2012 at 02:37:42PM +0000, Camalen wrote:
> On Mon, 02 Jul 2012 11:34:00 +1200, Chris Bannister wrote:
> > Ouch!!, at least try different media first, some media are problematic
> > with some DVD/CD drives (according to some stuff I've read)
>
> The above "weird, inconsistent, and intermittent" errors indicate some
> CDs do work and some doesn't. If all the tests are being done in the same
> way (same media, same writing speed, same burning tools...) there's a
> high chance for the unit going bad.

I was referring to whether it was CD+R or CD-R media, although you can
get the odd crook one; especially in those bulk cheap stacks. Also
dodgy RAM will cause intermittent burning problems.

--
"If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people
who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the
oppressing." --- Malcolm X


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Camalen 07-03-2012 02:32 PM

CD/DVD diagnostic tools needed
 
On Tue, 03 Jul 2012 18:17:12 +1200, Chris Bannister wrote:

> On Mon, Jul 02, 2012 at 02:37:42PM +0000, Camalen wrote:
>> On Mon, 02 Jul 2012 11:34:00 +1200, Chris Bannister wrote:
>> > Ouch!!, at least try different media first, some media are
>> > problematic with some DVD/CD drives (according to some stuff I've
>> > read)
>>
>> The above "weird, inconsistent, and intermittent" errors indicate some
>> CDs do work and some doesn't. If all the tests are being done in the
>> same way (same media, same writing speed, same burning tools...)
>> there's a high chance for the unit going bad.
>
> I was referring to whether it was CD+R or CD-R media, although you can
> get the odd crook one; especially in those bulk cheap stacks.

Discarding the media is as easy as using a different CD/DVD type/brand.

> Also dodgy RAM will cause intermittent burning problems.

And a bad power supply... but this, as well as memory related problems,
would also lead in a general system instability or another "weirdities"
which have not been mentioned yet.

Greetings,

--
Camalen


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