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Old 06-18-2012, 12:30 PM
Richard Owlett
 
Default Is the a 'contrarian' Debian install available?

I did not use the term "alternate" as that already has a
specific meaning in this context.
I also used "contrarian" instead of "experimental" to
emphasize I'm looking for something aimed at a different
target audience.


My experiments have demonstrated that the Debian installer
team has producer a very robust product which meets the
needs/desires of a very large percentage of its intended
audience.


Having recently read the announcement of apt-offline version
1.2, I think something I'd like would be possible.


What I would like to have:
CLI, dial up on a full analog modem (USB connection),
WiFi connectivity, apt-offline.


Options I would likely download almost immediately:
X11, a very simple GUI (NOT a 'desktop _environment_),
Tcl/Tk & gnuplot (I've existing projects).


TIA



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Old 06-18-2012, 03:41 PM
Camaleón
 
Default Is the a 'contrarian' Debian install available?

On Mon, 18 Jun 2012 07:30:01 -0500, Richard Owlett wrote:

> I did not use the term "alternate" as that already has a specific
> meaning in this context.
> I also used "contrarian" instead of "experimental" to emphasize I'm
> looking for something aimed at a different target audience.

(...)

> What I would like to have:
> CLI, dial up on a full analog modem (USB connection),
> WiFi connectivity, apt-offline.
>
> Options I would likely download almost immediately:
> X11, a very simple GUI (NOT a 'desktop _environment_),
> Tcl/Tk & gnuplot (I've existing projects).

I'm not sure that I have properly understood your whole point but if
you're asking/looking for a minimal install you can go with the net ISO
(expert installer), and select a small set of components (with no desktop
pattern, only a bare base install) and after the first login, configure
your network facility and proceed with the rest of the packages you've
mentioned.

Greetings,

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Old 06-21-2012, 12:45 PM
Richard Owlett
 
Default Is the a 'contrarian' Debian install available?

Camaleón wrote:

On Mon, 18 Jun 2012 07:30:01 -0500, Richard Owlett wrote:


I did not use the term "alternate" as that already has a specific
meaning in this context.
I also used "contrarian" instead of "experimental" to emphasize I'm
looking for something aimed at a different target audience.


(...)


What I would like to have:
CLI, dial up on a full analog modem (USB connection),
WiFi connectivity, apt-offline.

Options I would likely download almost immediately:
X11, a very simple GUI (NOT a 'desktop _environment_),
Tcl/Tk& gnuplot (I've existing projects).


I'm not sure that I have properly understood your whole point but if
you're asking/looking for a minimal install you can go with the net ISO
(expert installer), and select a small set of components (with no desktop
pattern, only a bare base install) and after the first login, configure
your network facility and proceed with the rest of the packages you've
mentioned.

Greetings,



Yes.

At some point in my series of posts someone said I could not
get a functioning minimal install using netinst.iso if
internet connection [for whatever reason] was not available.




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Old 06-21-2012, 01:08 PM
Jon Dowland
 
Default Is the a 'contrarian' Debian install available?

On Thu, Jun 21, 2012 at 07:45:38AM -0500, Richard Owlett wrote:
> At some point in my series of posts someone said I could not get a
> functioning minimal install using netinst.iso if internet connection
> [for whatever reason] was not available.

They are mistaken, you can. (but 'minimal' is truly that.)


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Old 06-21-2012, 01:50 PM
Brian
 
Default Is the a 'contrarian' Debian install available?

On Thu 21 Jun 2012 at 14:08:25 +0100, Jon Dowland wrote:

> On Thu, Jun 21, 2012 at 07:45:38AM -0500, Richard Owlett wrote:
> > At some point in my series of posts someone said I could not get a
> > functioning minimal install using netinst.iso if internet connection
> > [for whatever reason] was not available.
>
> They are mistaken, you can. (but 'minimal' is truly that.)

If it had been said it would be erroneous, But, as far as I can tell, it
wasn't said. The final paragraph at

http://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2012/06/msg00850.html

is spot-on. Of course, this may not be the post the Richard is referring
to.


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Old 06-21-2012, 03:13 PM
Richard Owlett
 
Default Is the a 'contrarian' Debian install available?

Brian wrote:

On Thu 21 Jun 2012 at 14:08:25 +0100, Jon Dowland wrote:


On Thu, Jun 21, 2012 at 07:45:38AM -0500, Richard Owlett wrote:

At some point in my series of posts someone said I could not get a
functioning minimal install using netinst.iso if internet connection
[for whatever reason] was not available.


They are mistaken, you can. (but 'minimal' is truly that.)


If it had been said it would be erroneous, But, as far as I can tell, it
wasn't said. The final paragraph at

http://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2012/06/msg00850.html

is spot-on. Of course, this may not be the post the Richard is referring
to.



It's not. I'm not even sure where the exchange took place.
I've been having several lightly related conversations.


As I write I was doing another test install. It appeared to
proceed normally up until I was instructed to remove the CD.
Seems to have crashed with a bunch of error message. From
the form of the messages I suspect bad memory. I'll have to
retry and pay closer attention to the screen. Now just where
did I put memtest ;<




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Old 06-21-2012, 03:31 PM
Camaleón
 
Default Is the a 'contrarian' Debian install available?

On Thu, 21 Jun 2012 10:13:31 -0500, Richard Owlett wrote:

(...)

> As I write I was doing another test install. It appeared to proceed
> normally up until I was instructed to remove the CD. Seems to have
> crashed with a bunch of error message.

Error messages are very important :-)

You can take a snapshot with a standard DSC camera or using cell phone's
one and upload the image somewhere (www.picpaste.com) so we can check for
that logs.

> From the form of the messages I suspect bad memory. I'll have to retry
> and pay closer attention to the screen. Now just where did I put
> memtest ;<

According to the FAQ:

http://www.debian.org/CD/netinst/index.en.html

The netinst ISO contains the required packages to get the system running,
so back to your first question: yes, it is possible to install a bare
system with this image and no Internet connection.

The installed system won't be suitable for text based servers nor even
small appliances, you'll need to get more packages once the installer
finishes, you first login and setup the system basics (source
repositories, network connections...).

Greetings,

--
Camaleón


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Old 06-21-2012, 03:42 PM
Tom H
 
Default Is the a 'contrarian' Debian install available?

On Thu, Jun 21, 2012 at 11:13 AM, Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> wrote:
> Brian wrote:
>> On Thu 21 Jun 2012 at 14:08:25 +0100, Jon Dowland wrote:
>>> On Thu, Jun 21, 2012 at 07:45:38AM -0500, Richard Owlett wrote:
>>>>
>>>> At some point in my series of posts someone said I could not get a
>>>> functioning minimal install using netinst.iso if internet connection
>>>> [for whatever reason] was not available.
>>>
>>> They are mistaken, you can. (but 'minimal' is truly that.)
>>
>> If it had been said it would be erroneous, But, as far as I can tell, it
>> wasn't said. The final paragraph at
>>
>> * *http://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2012/06/msg00850.html
>>
>> is spot-on. Of course, this may not be the post the Richard is referring
>> to.
>>
>
> It's not. I'm not even sure where the exchange took place. I've been having
> several lightly related conversations.

The last sentence of my post, linked to above, is "the netinst
installer can, at most, install a base system without an internet
connection."


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Old 06-23-2012, 02:48 AM
Paul Condon
 
Default Is the a 'contrarian' Debian install available?

I think I have also read somewhere that netinst is a minimal system that
is capable of hardly anything, except downloading and installing more
packages from a mirror on the web. For this to
be true in any meaningful sense, I had always assumed that it is capable
of booting from hard disk.
And Tom is finding that his install is not capable of doing that. The
sequence of events for a netinst type install is that at some point
*before* the CD is popped out, the grub boot program is written to the
MBR space on the hard disk. Then after rebooting you are offered the
tasksel dialog to specify what you want installed into the final system.


OTOH, if you use businesscard, you do your tasksel before popping out
the CD, because, I suppose,
the businesscard install is not capable of booting from what it has
written onto the HD, just as a 'live' disk does not automatically write
itself onto the HD. But Tom never said anything about the properties of
businesscard, or about using businesscard in his experiments.


If I have recalled incorrectly, and the netinstall CD does ask for
tasksel selection before popping out the CD, then there is very little
observable difference between the two. (Also, not something
that Tom expressed an interest in. ) And, perhaps both install systems
that are incapable of booting from HD. That is very minimal, indeed.


I really am not sure. All my 'facts' are hardly more than vague
recollections of reading stuff.



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Old 06-23-2012, 09:17 AM
Andrei POPESCU
 
Default Is the a 'contrarian' Debian install available?

On Vi, 22 iun 12, 20:48:31, Paul Condon wrote:
> I think I have also read somewhere that netinst is a minimal system
> that is capable of hardly anything, except downloading and
> installing more packages from a mirror on the web. For this to
> be true in any meaningful sense, I had always assumed that it is
> capable of booting from hard disk.
> And Tom is finding that his install is not capable of doing that.
> The sequence of events for a netinst type install is that at some
> point *before* the CD is popped out, the grub boot program is
> written to the MBR space on the hard disk. Then after rebooting you
> are offered the tasksel dialog to specify what you want installed
> into the final system.

Maybe you are remembering sarge with its two step install? Haven't seen
this since.

> If I have recalled incorrectly, and the netinstall CD does ask for
> tasksel selection before popping out the CD, then there is very
> little observable difference between the two. (Also, not something
> that Tom expressed an interest in. ) And, perhaps both install
> systems that are incapable of booting from HD. That is very minimal,
> indeed.

The difference, as stated already, is that netinst contains some
packages, AFAIK the packages that will get installed even if you don't
select anything at the 'tasksel' step (not even Standard).

Kind regards,
Andrei
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