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Old 04-19-2012, 03:06 PM
Kamil Paral
 
Default InstallFedoraButton gnome-shell extension for LiveCD

Hello,

I have created a small gnome-shell extension that adds a button on the top bar that launches anaconda installation. The objective is to make Anaconda more discoverable on a standard Fedora LiveCD, because currently that is very hard. The code is available here:

https://github.com/kparal/InstallFedoraButton

It has been discussed on devel list:

http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/devel/2012-April/165234.html

and most people agreed such an extension would be a great improvement.

I believe the easiest path is to make this extension part of anaconda. It's basically a different way of desktop-integration of the installer. Just like you have anaconda.desktop file inside your source code, and also some scripts to show the installer icon on desktop in most desktop environments (/etc/X11/xinit/xinitrc.d/zz-liveinst.sh), this is an integration to Gnome 3, which has prohibited desktop icons (I know, "it's their problem", but we need some solution for our users). Since Gnome is a default Fedora desktop, and not a niche one, I'd be very glad if you could make it part of anaconda.

There are no modifications in anaconda needed. My idea is to include it in some arbitrary path inside /usr/share/anaconda, e.g. /usr/share/anaconda/gnome-shell. Then we would put code in /etc/rc.d/init.d/livesys on LiveCD that would copy the extension from /usr/share/anaconda/gnome-shell to /usr/share/gnome-shell/extensions/. I have provided a patch for spin-kickstarts in the aforementioned git repo.

The benefits of this approach:
1. the extension does not influence any desktop environment by default, it's placed just inside anaconda directory
2. we copy it to the relevant directory and enable it just on LiveCD, it will not be present on the installed system
3. the only change needed in anaconda is to include three small files in a new directory, no other changes needed

The extension is very simple, 60 lines. I am willing to maintain it for future Gnome releases, if some API is changed and adjustments are needed. Also there were some plans mentioned on the devel list that could make this extension not needed in one or two Fedora releases, so maybe it's just temporary. But I'd be very glad if we could make it part of Fedora 17, it's really needed.

What do you say?

Thanks,
Kamil

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Old 04-19-2012, 03:28 PM
Máirín Duffy
 
Default InstallFedoraButton gnome-shell extension for LiveCD

On Thu, 2012-04-19 at 11:06 -0400, Kamil Paral wrote:
> The extension is very simple, 60 lines. I am willing to maintain it for future Gnome releases, if some API is changed and adjustments are needed. Also there were some plans mentioned on the devel list that could make this extension not needed in one or two Fedora releases, so maybe it's just temporary. But I'd be very glad if we could make it part of Fedora 17, it's really needed.

Just a quick designer peanut-gallery question -

Is there a way to place it next to activities rather than next to the
clock? Being more towards the left gives it a bit more prominence, and
as it's an 'activity' being closer to the activities menu trigger seems
a more logical grouping than between the clock and status area.

~m

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Old 04-19-2012, 03:57 PM
Jesse Keating
 
Default InstallFedoraButton gnome-shell extension for LiveCD

On 04/19/2012 11:06 AM, Kamil Paral wrote:

It has been discussed on devel list:

http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/devel/2012-April/165234.html

and most people agreed such an extension would be a great improvement.


Notably though, member(s) from the Desktop team don't agree. I'd rather
see an agreement reached before we add code to anaconda.


--
Jesse Keating
Fedora -- Freedom˛ is a feature!

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Old 04-19-2012, 07:12 PM
Martin Sivak
 
Default InstallFedoraButton gnome-shell extension for LiveCD

I agree that we should make anaconda more visible.
Brian, what do you think?

Martin

----- Original Message -----
> Hello,
>
> I have created a small gnome-shell extension that adds a button on
> the top bar that launches anaconda installation. The objective is to
> make Anaconda more discoverable on a standard Fedora LiveCD, because
> currently that is very hard. The code is available here:
>
> https://github.com/kparal/InstallFedoraButton
>
> It has been discussed on devel list:
>
> http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/devel/2012-April/165234.html
>
> and most people agreed such an extension would be a great
> improvement.
>
> I believe the easiest path is to make this extension part of
> anaconda. It's basically a different way of desktop-integration of
> the installer. Just like you have anaconda.desktop file inside your
> source code, and also some scripts to show the installer icon on
> desktop in most desktop environments
> (/etc/X11/xinit/xinitrc.d/zz-liveinst.sh), this is an integration to
> Gnome 3, which has prohibited desktop icons (I know, "it's their
> problem", but we need some solution for our users). Since Gnome is a
> default Fedora desktop, and not a niche one, I'd be very glad if you
> could make it part of anaconda.
>
> There are no modifications in anaconda needed. My idea is to include
> it in some arbitrary path inside /usr/share/anaconda, e.g.
> /usr/share/anaconda/gnome-shell. Then we would put code in
> /etc/rc.d/init.d/livesys on LiveCD that would copy the extension
> from /usr/share/anaconda/gnome-shell to
> /usr/share/gnome-shell/extensions/. I have provided a patch for
> spin-kickstarts in the aforementioned git repo.
>
> The benefits of this approach:
> 1. the extension does not influence any desktop environment by
> default, it's placed just inside anaconda directory
> 2. we copy it to the relevant directory and enable it just on LiveCD,
> it will not be present on the installed system
> 3. the only change needed in anaconda is to include three small files
> in a new directory, no other changes needed
>
> The extension is very simple, 60 lines. I am willing to maintain it
> for future Gnome releases, if some API is changed and adjustments
> are needed. Also there were some plans mentioned on the devel list
> that could make this extension not needed in one or two Fedora
> releases, so maybe it's just temporary. But I'd be very glad if we
> could make it part of Fedora 17, it's really needed.
>
> What do you say?
>
> Thanks,
> Kamil
>
> _______________________________________________
> Anaconda-devel-list mailing list
> Anaconda-devel-list@redhat.com
> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/anaconda-devel-list
>

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Old 04-19-2012, 08:26 PM
Kamil Paral
 
Default InstallFedoraButton gnome-shell extension for LiveCD

> On Thu, 2012-04-19 at 11:06 -0400, Kamil Paral wrote:
> > The extension is very simple, 60 lines. I am willing to maintain it
> > for future Gnome releases, if some API is changed and adjustments
> > are needed. Also there were some plans mentioned on the devel list
> > that could make this extension not needed in one or two Fedora
> > releases, so maybe it's just temporary. But I'd be very glad if we
> > could make it part of Fedora 17, it's really needed.
>
> Just a quick designer peanut-gallery question -
>
> Is there a way to place it next to activities rather than next to the
> clock? Being more towards the left gives it a bit more prominence,
> and
> as it's an 'activity' being closer to the activities menu trigger
> seems
> a more logical grouping than between the clock and status area.
>
> ~m

It might not be obvious from the screenshot (it's just 1024x768), but the button is attached to the right corner. So if you enlarge the screen size, it will stay directly next to the status area, further from the clock. I also proposed changing the title [1] to "Install Fedora", which is shorter, again taking less place. I have updated the screenshot on the project page.

I chose right corner because I consider it visible enough and the left corner is used for application menu of the currently running application. It is not obvious to me where I should place it exactly so that it is not confusing. Could you please use this image:

http://i.imgur.com/W58fo.png

to indicate where you would like to see it on the left side?

Thanks.

[1] https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=809499

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Old 04-19-2012, 08:46 PM
Kamil Paral
 
Default InstallFedoraButton gnome-shell extension for LiveCD

> On 04/19/2012 11:06 AM, Kamil Paral wrote:
> > It has been discussed on devel list:
> >
> > http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/devel/2012-April/165234.html
> >
> > and most people agreed such an extension would be a great
> > improvement.
>
> Notably though, member(s) from the Desktop team don't agree. I'd
> rather
> see an agreement reached before we add code to anaconda.

Yes, unfortunately, Matthias Clasen was opposed to the very idea from the beginning, later admitted a start-up notification could be acceptable. I don't mean to impose that my idea is the only one and best. There are certainly a lot of ideas how to make installer more visible. But there are no other implementations and F17 deadline is closing. I would rather accept an idea that might not be the best solution ever, but it certainly improves the current situation (my impression is that everyone agrees on that statement, probably except for Matthias), than waiting for "perfect solution that appeals to everyone" that might not come in time (if at all). Is there a technical problem to swap the solution if a "better" one appears in time before F17 deadline?

I'll post a call to Desktop SIG's mailing list and ask more people to have a look at it a respond with their comments. I don't know what else I can do (except for releasing my own desktop spin and dominating Fedora download statistics to prove people see value in it, ho ho ho - ok, that was not so funny).

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Old 04-19-2012, 08:55 PM
Chris Murphy
 
Default InstallFedoraButton gnome-shell extension for LiveCD

On Apr 19, 2012, at 2:26 PM, Kamil Paral wrote:
>
> It might not be obvious from the screenshot (it's just 1024x768), but the button is attached to the right corner. So if you enlarge the screen size, it will stay directly next to the status area, further from the clock. I also proposed changing the title [1] to "Install Fedora", which is shorter, again taking less place. I have updated the screenshot on the project page.

"Install to Hard Drive" requires an assumption about what will be installed, and there is an immediacy of the installation. Right now? Only to the hard drive? Which hard drive? Do I get options? What about my current data?

While I prefer "Install Fedora" over existing, the implied immediacy of the action remains, and should concern any wary user.

Option 1 (preferred):
"Launch Fedora Installer" is more correct.

"Run Fedora Installer" may be acceptable, it's shorter, and widely accepted vernacular. I'm not sure how this plays out in some foreign languages however.

Option 2:

To imply additional options will be presented to the user, rather than immediate action, a common UI element is the ellipsis, e.g.

"Install Fedora . . . "


Chris Murphy

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Old 04-19-2012, 09:02 PM
Chris Murphy
 
Default InstallFedoraButton gnome-shell extension for LiveCD

On Apr 19, 2012, at 2:46 PM, Kamil Paral wrote:
> I would rather accept an idea that might not be the best solution ever, but it certainly improves the current situation (my impression is that everyone agrees on that statement, probably except for Matthias), than waiting for "perfect solution that appeals to everyone" that might not come in time (if at all).

Finding the install option on the LiveCD is very obscure at present, and I agree it is a problem. It's a consequence of the loss of icons on the desktop in Gnome 3. If there was ever a valid reason for the installer being located on the desktop in the first place, and I believe there was, then some interim means of returning near equivalent discoverability is a good idea.

The suggested button solution seems low risk, and significantly reduces the present obscurity problem.

Longer term, I think I prefer clear text options in Syslinux/GRUB menus to choose either booting a Live environment, or executing the installer.


Chris Murphy

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Old 04-20-2012, 12:24 AM
"Brian C. Lane"
 
Default InstallFedoraButton gnome-shell extension for LiveCD

On Thu, Apr 19, 2012 at 03:12:33PM -0400, Martin Sivak wrote:
> I agree that we should make anaconda more visible.
> Brian, what do you think?
>

I think how it looks is something that should be left up to the live
spins themselves. I'm not excited about having code like this in
anaconda, but given that we already have the desktop files in
data/liveinst I guess it is better than stuffing it into a kickstart
post for a spin.

I'm worried about ongoing maintenance of it and supporting
other spins in a similar way.


--
Brian C. Lane | Anaconda Team | IRC: bcl #anaconda | Port Orchard, WA (PST8PDT)
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