FAQ Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
» Video Reviews

» Linux Archive

Linux-archive is a website aiming to archive linux email lists and to make them easily accessible for linux users/developers.


» Sponsor

» Partners

» Sponsor

Go Back   Linux Archive > Debian > Debian User

 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
 
Old 04-10-2012, 12:40 PM
Richard Owlett
 
Default netinst CD image - too big, vaguely specified?

http://www.debian.org/CD/faq/#netinst says in part:
"This single CD contains *just the minimal amount* of
software to start the installation and fetch the remaining
packages over the Internet." [emphasis *added*]


I've browsed through debian-6.0.4-i386-netinst.list. It
appears to contains files of unlikely interest to me (C
compiler and header files, firewire, traceroute, etc).


I also did not find any description of how fine the user
control of packages to be downloaded is.




--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-REQUEST@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org

Archive: 4F842A58.30501@pcnetinc.com">http://lists.debian.org/4F842A58.30501@pcnetinc.com
 
Old 04-10-2012, 01:10 PM
Claudius Hubig
 
Default netinst CD image - too big, vaguely specified?

Hello Richard,

Richard Owlett <rowlett@pcnetinc.com> wrote:
> I've browsed through debian-6.0.4-i386-netinst.list. It
> appears to contains files of unlikely interest to me (C
> compiler and header files, firewire, traceroute, etc).

The business card CD images contain even fewer packages, but you
should consider that compilers and headers are often important parts
of a system (for example, if you want to compile non-free drivers).
Additionally, many people require them for their daily work, thus
they are included even in this nearly-minimal image, as it is clearly
a compromise to be made.

> I also did not find any description of how fine the user
> control of packages to be downloaded is.

You cannot control the packages contained in the CD image, but if you
choose the appropriate mode of installation (‘expert’) you can
specify to download no further packages, leaving you with the
possibility to install everything you need by hand.

Best regards,

Claudius
--
Be braver -- you can't cross a chasm in two small jumps.
Please use GPG: ECB0C2C7 4A4C4046 446ADF86 C08112E5 D72CDBA4
http://chubig.net telnet://nightfall.org:4242
 
Old 04-10-2012, 02:07 PM
Richard Owlett
 
Default netinst CD image - too big, vaguely specified?

Claudius Hubig wrote:

Hello Richard,

Richard Owlett<rowlett@pcnetinc.com> wrote:

I've browsed through debian-6.0.4-i386-netinst.list. It
appears to contains files of unlikely interest to me (C
compiler and header files, firewire, traceroute, etc).


The business card CD images contain even fewer packages, but you
should consider that compilers and headers are often important parts
of a system (for example, if you want to compile non-free drivers).
Additionally, many people require them for their daily work, thus
they are included even in this nearly-minimal image, as it is clearly
a compromise to be made.


AFAIK I have no hardware _requiring_ non-free drivers. I may
not be able to use all the "bells-n-whistles". If OS's were
furniture, I would tilt towards Shaker.


debian-6.0.4-i386-businesscard.list looks attractive.

http://www.debian.org/CD/netinst/ says in part:
"The "business card" image is smaller than the "netinst"
image to fit on business-card sized cds. It does not contain
the base system, but only the installer: even the base
packages need to be downloaded from the net. "


That led me to assume that the "business card" image would
just go ahead and download the rest of the "netinst" image.
How much control does user have over what it downloads?





I also did not find any description of how fine the user
control of packages to be downloaded is.


You cannot control the packages contained in the CD image, but if you
choose the appropriate mode of installation (‘expert’) you can
specify to download no further packages, leaving you with the
possibility to install everything you need by hand.


Doing things "by hand" doesn't bother me as I'm of the 026
and KSR-35 era.
BUT, how much carnal knowledge would I need to use the
"expert" mode. If program XYZ requires X11, will X11 and its
dependencies be pulled in?


Thanks



Best regards,

Claudius



--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-REQUEST@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org

Archive: 4F843EBC.9080209@pcnetinc.com">http://lists.debian.org/4F843EBC.9080209@pcnetinc.com
 
Old 04-10-2012, 02:21 PM
Claudius Hubig
 
Default netinst CD image - too big, vaguely specified?

Hello Richard,

Richard Owlett <rowlett@pcnetinc.com> wrote:
> That led me to assume that the "business card" image would
> just go ahead and download the rest of the "netinst" image.

I think it downloads less, but I cannot guarantee that.

> How much control does user have over what it downloads?

You can abort the installation at any time…

> BUT, how much carnal knowledge would I need to use the
> "expert" mode. If program XYZ requires X11, will X11 and its
> dependencies be pulled in?

Probably. But you might also want a display manager such as
lightdm/slim/gdm and maybe a desktop environment such as KDE or the
like. Installing the "kde" metapackage will do that, but it will also
pull in a lot of other stuff you probably don’t want.

Knowing how to use apt-get etc. on the command line might also
be a good idea.

Best regards,

Claudius
--
Androphobia:
Fear of men.
Please use GPG: ECB0C2C7 4A4C4046 446ADF86 C08112E5 D72CDBA4
http://chubig.net telnet://nightfall.org:4242
 
Old 04-10-2012, 03:03 PM
Curt Howland
 
Default netinst CD image - too big, vaguely specified?

Please forgive the direct reply, I get the Debian-User list digest,
and any reply I make will "break the thread" anyway.

Like you, I enjoy a "minimalist" install, at least at first. Let me
give you my experiences with the various Debian install styles.

It used to be that the Business-card and Net-install images would do a
base install without a network connection, creating a truly minimal
Linux installation. I would then edit /etc/apt/sources.list to include
one or two repositories, add "dselect" by hand (apt-get update;
apt-get install dselect) which is the old, minimalist, non-graphical
package dependency manager, and start the process of choosing the
applications I wanted.

The last time I tried, the Net-install would still do a base
installation without a network connection, but the BBC would not.

"Expert" mode using any of the Debian install images will allow you to
select whether or not to install a graphical "desktop". Don't worry,
"expert" mode is very straightforward, following the defaults is all
that the less interactive setup processes do. I recommend people try
"expert" to learn the steps required in setting up a basic system.

Be aware that the Debian installer does not collect all information
first and then do the work, it will prompt for steps as required. So,
it seems to take longer but you get far greater control than with more
automated/automatic installers.

If what you want is a minimal install to start, don't worry about what
is on the install disk. Just tell the installer to only build a "Base
System", and that is what you will get. I know I'm a dinosaur for
still using dselect as my package manager tool, but do give it a try.
Oh, and "search" in dselect is started with "", and "next" is "/",
"+" to add the highlighted package, "_" to purge it. Those are the
keys I use most.

When you're ready for the big package sets like Xwindow, Lxde, etc,
there are meta-packages with names like "KDE-all" that will do the
heavy lifting for you.

I think you will find that even with what seem to be "extra" packages
on the install disks, for the most part very little cruft gets
installed. Unlike some other distributions *cough*Ubuntu*cough* the
Debian install disks do not automatically build an entire system for
you unless you ask it to. So even using DVD#1, you can say "base
system" and a basic system is all you'll get.

I like DVD#1, and had a great time playing with it when making up this
blog post, "Linux's Killer Feature: Flexibility"

http://anarchic-order.blogspot.com/2011/02/linuxs-killer-feature-flexibility.html

Peace, and do experiment a bit. The worst thing that can happen with a
botched install is to reinstall, which is not all that much work after
all.

Curt-


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-REQUEST@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org
Archive: CAGY8_s3mesRURR_aruFxSTvOb52eZXtLbTeq_qZ7KcTK=WAjs A@mail.gmail.com">http://lists.debian.org/CAGY8_s3mesRURR_aruFxSTvOb52eZXtLbTeq_qZ7KcTK=WAjs A@mail.gmail.com
 
Old 04-10-2012, 03:57 PM
Joey Hess
 
Default netinst CD image - too big, vaguely specified?

Curt Howland wrote:
> It used to be that the Business-card and Net-install images would do a
> base install without a network connection

No, the businesscard image has never contained the Debian base system;
it has always required a network connection to download and install Debian.

> "Expert" mode using any of the Debian install images will allow you to
> select whether or not to install a graphical "desktop".

You do not need to boot in expert mode to do that, task selection is
available in the default mode.

--
see shy jo
 
Old 04-10-2012, 04:16 PM
Jon Dowland
 
Default netinst CD image - too big, vaguely specified?

On Tue, Apr 10, 2012 at 03:10:07PM +0200, Claudius Hubig wrote:
> The business card CD images contain even fewer packages, but you
> should consider that compilers and headers are often important parts
> of a system (for example, if you want to compile non-free drivers).
> Additionally, many people require them for their daily work, thus
> they are included even in this nearly-minimal image, as it is clearly
> a compromise to be made.

You don't have to install every package that is in the netinst image. Indeed
if you do a basic install (including the 'standard system' task, which defaults
to selected) you don't get GCC, for example, despite it being on the CD.


--
Jon Dowland


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-REQUEST@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org
Archive: 20120410161658.GE15551@debian">http://lists.debian.org/20120410161658.GE15551@debian
 
Old 04-10-2012, 05:01 PM
Curt Howland
 
Default netinst CD image - too big, vaguely specified?

Joey Hess <joeyh@debian.org> wrote:
> No, the businesscard image has never contained the Debian
> base system; it has always required a network connection to
> download and install Debian.

Please go find a Woody Business Card image and try it.

Business Card images since Woody all refuse to continue unless they
can get a network connection to the repositories. Woody's did not, and
would provide an exceptionally minimalist environment. It wasn't
(drum-roll please) "The Debian Base System", but it was a working
Linux install.

Curt-


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-REQUEST@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org
Archive: CAGY8_s3T_NgBiCW322iW92WR+DcXQ1akc1FarPATMcPpyFzsd w@mail.gmail.com">http://lists.debian.org/CAGY8_s3T_NgBiCW322iW92WR+DcXQ1akc1FarPATMcPpyFzsd w@mail.gmail.com
 
Old 04-10-2012, 05:13 PM
Claudius Hubig
 
Default netinst CD image - too big, vaguely specified?

Hello Jon,

Jon Dowland <jmtd@debian.org> wrote:
> You don't have to install every package that is in the netinst image. Indeed
> if you do a basic install (including the 'standard system' task, which defaults
> to selected) you don't get GCC, for example, despite it being on the CD.

Of course not, but Richard’s question appeared to have to do with the
downloading rather than the installation. And GCC is certainly
downloaded as part of the netinstall image.

Best regards,

Claudius
--
A company is known by the men it keeps.
Please use GPG: ECB0C2C7 4A4C4046 446ADF86 C08112E5 D72CDBA4
http://chubig.net telnet://nightfall.org:4242
 
Old 04-10-2012, 06:45 PM
Brian
 
Default netinst CD image - too big, vaguely specified?

On Tue 10 Apr 2012 at 09:07:56 -0500, Richard Owlett wrote:

> That led me to assume that the "business card" image would just go ahead
> and download the rest of the "netinst" image. How much control does user
> have over what it downloads?

Total control. You lever the power of Free Software. Me, I'm appreciative
of all the effort which has gone into the Debian delivered install images.


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-REQUEST@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org
Archive: 20120410184542.GP16316@desktop">http://lists.debian.org/20120410184542.GP16316@desktop
 

Thread Tools




All times are GMT. The time now is 06:17 AM.

VBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO ©2007, Crawlability, Inc.
Copyright 2007 - 2008, www.linux-archive.org