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Old 04-07-2008, 04:46 AM
Amit Uttamchandani
 
Default reminiscing on old computers

On Sun, 6 Apr 2008 21:48:18 -0400
"Douglas A. Tutty" <dtutty@porchlight.ca> wrote:

> On Sun, Apr 06, 2008 at 06:18:51PM -0700, Andrew Sackville-West wrote:
> > On Sun, Apr 06, 2008 at 08:23:20PM -0400, Douglas A. Tutty wrote:
> >
> > so now we can twiddle our thumbs, go on random OT rants and rest
> > assured that lenny will be out any time. When's the next utnubu due
> > out? That always brings a few interesting ones. Maybe we should run
> > some more google trends charts?
> >
>
> We could reminise about my 486 that doesn't run Debian anymore. I
> wonder if Lenny will run on my P-II or if that's another box for
> OpenBSD.
>
> I remember my 386. It was an IBM PS/2 model 70-A21. It came with the
> then-unherd of 120MB hard drive, MCA bus, and I put 4 MB ram into it,
> running OS/2, IBM Fortran compiler (the reason I bought a computer in
> the first place), WordPerfect 4.?, and AutoCad 11.
>
> It died after two years. That second summer was very hot and we didn't
> have air-conditioning. The system-board cracked across like a
> cookie-sheet in the oven. I don't know if the problem was the board or
> the plastic case. Room temp was over 40 C with about 90% humidity.
> This happend just as I was entering the summer before final year in
> nursing and I was writing many essays and doing stats research (and the
> only one in the class doing it in Fortran instead of the stats package
> that required MS something).
>
> I replaced the 386 with my IBM 486 ValuePoint 6492X5C, 16 MB ram (now
> 32MB). This box still runs like a charm but gagged on Etch and runs
> OpenBSD just fine.
>
> My P-II was given to me full of cat hair. The people who gave it to me
> needed a box with USB. I read the manual for the board and popped out
> the cover on the back of the case and lo and behold there are two
> functioning USB ports on the MB. The PSU is flaky, the CPU fan
> bearing is noisy (hostname= rocky, as in a gravel truck). It does take
> large drives so is a good second box but it only has 64 MB ram and isn't
> reliable (too much heat damage?) to bother adding more. Will it run
> Lenny well?


Since we're off topic and talking about low end machine. I don't know if any of you guys have heard of this new linux distro on the block called slitaz.

http://www.slitaz.org/en/

Very small distro...fits in a 24.8 mb live cd. Can run entirely on RAM as low as 64MB. Linux kernel 2.6.24.2 and all the good stuff. I wish i could try it out but I only have old PPC machines lying around...never owned an x86...

AMit


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Old 04-07-2008, 12:03 PM
"Douglas A. Tutty"
 
Default reminiscing on old computers

On Sun, Apr 06, 2008 at 07:17:49PM -0700, Andrew Sackville-West wrote:
> On Sun, Apr 06, 2008 at 09:48:18PM -0400, Douglas A. Tutty wrote:
> > On Sun, Apr 06, 2008 at 06:18:51PM -0700, Andrew Sackville-West wrote:
> > > On Sun, Apr 06, 2008 at 08:23:20PM -0400, Douglas A. Tutty wrote:
> > We could reminise about my 486 that doesn't run Debian anymore. I
> > wonder if Lenny will run on my P-II or if that's another box for
> > OpenBSD.
>
> hmmm... good question. It doesn't seem to me like there's been as much
> change between etch and lenny, relative to the sarge->etch
> transition. Of course, being all sid for my human-facing machines, I
> haven't used an etch-like system in a while now...

The big problem was the memory requirements with bash hitting swap on
the 486 in Etch but not Sarge. I wonder how much memory Lenny's
installer will need; the P-II only has 64 MB.

> my household server here (bigmomma, .5TB) started out on an old
> pentium 90 system with the cpu on a daughter board. over time, that
> slot "wore out" (don't ask me how, because I don't know). At the end,
> I had to keep a rubberband pulling that daughter board at just the
> right angle, or the thing would lock up and not boot. Worked like that
> for years.

Aren't you the one that said using a VT520 to access a P-II to ssh into
an Athlon64 to read mail was rube-goldberg?

Thanks Mr. Pot.

Kettle.




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Old 04-07-2008, 12:10 PM
"Douglas A. Tutty"
 
Default reminiscing on old computers

On Sun, Apr 06, 2008 at 09:26:41PM -0500, Ron Johnson wrote:
> On 04/06/08 20:48, Douglas A. Tutty wrote:
> > On Sun, Apr 06, 2008 at 06:18:51PM -0700, Andrew Sackville-West wrote:
> >> On Sun, Apr 06, 2008 at 08:23:20PM -0400, Douglas A. Tutty wrote:
> > I remember my 386. It was an IBM PS/2 model 70-A21. It came with the
> > then-unherd of 120MB hard drive, MCA bus, and I put 4 MB ram into it,
> > running OS/2, IBM Fortran compiler (the reason I bought a computer in
> > the first place), WordPerfect 4.?, and AutoCad 11.
>
> Warp 3 was a wonderful OS. Presentation Manager was *really* slick,
> and formatting floppies while downloading a file at 14.4KBps was
> something that Win 3.1 could only dream of, and Win93 could only
> barely accomplish when the moon was full and the stars in proper
> alignment.

I never had Warp 3. I started with version 1.1 on the 386 and kept up
with the service packs. I convinced IBM to give me 2.? when I had to
get the 486. BTW, those IBM floppies from ~1990 still work.

OS/2 was my first OS. I had to learn Dos and Lotus-1-2-3 for school (on
their computer), but did everything at home on both computers on OS/2.
The 486 came with win 3.1. I only used it for a game that needed it
(Harpoon!) while the DOS games ran OK under OS/2 (but better under dos).
Once I had a Zip drive, I just installed Win onto the Zip drive (it
didn't know it could do it) and booted dos with a floppy.

It was certainly a bit of a switch to go from OS/2 to Potato (via a
short stint with RH 4-something).
>
> DOS-based BBSs still mandated you have one PC per modem, but OS/2
> was capable enough to run 6 or 8 modems at full speed.

I only had a 2400 modem but eventually move up to a 28.8.

Doug.


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Old 04-07-2008, 12:14 PM
"Douglas A. Tutty"
 
Default reminiscing on old computers

On Sun, Apr 06, 2008 at 09:46:15PM -0700, Amit Uttamchandani wrote:

> Since we're off topic and talking about low end machine. I don't know
> if any of you guys have heard of this new linux distro on the block
> called slitaz.
>
> http://www.slitaz.org/en/
>
> Very small distro...fits in a 24.8 mb live cd. Can run entirely on RAM
> as low as 64MB. Linux kernel 2.6.24.2 and all the good stuff. I wish i
> could try it out but I only have old PPC machines lying around...never
> owned an x86...

Personally, I wouldn't bother. You can only do so much with Linux on a
low-end machine. OpenBSD (and to be fair NetBSD) run so much better,
and there are scripts out to make a liveCD for OpenBSD. My only gripe
with NetBSD is comparing how long security fixes take to come out (if
they ever do):
Debian and FreeBSD tend to come out within a day of each other.
OpenBSD, if its vulnerable at all, given the changes they made
to the compiler, takes about a week (but there are never new
bugs created by a fix), and NetBSD may take a month or more.


Doug.


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Old 04-07-2008, 02:41 PM
Andrew Sackville-West
 
Default reminiscing on old computers

On Sun, Apr 06, 2008 at 09:46:15PM -0700, Amit Uttamchandani wrote:
>
> Since we're off topic and talking about low end machine. I don't know if any of you guys have heard of this new linux distro on the block called slitaz.
>
> http://www.slitaz.org/en/

hey that's cool. I love little distros like that. This kind of stuff
will keep old low-end machines running for ever. And, having put debian on
a couple of lower power Via Epia machines, I can say there's
definitely a place for this stuff on low power modern hardware as
well. Heck even on high end hardware... the responsiveness of these
small, ram-only systems is awesome.

>
> Very small distro...fits in a 24.8 mb live cd. Can run entirely on
> RAM as low as 64MB. Linux kernel 2.6.24.2 and all the good stuff. I
> wish i could try it out but I only have old PPC machines lying
> around...never owned an x86...

can't you emulate x86 in a virtual machine?

A
 
Old 04-07-2008, 04:31 PM
Andrew Sackville-West
 
Default reminiscing on old computers

On Mon, Apr 07, 2008 at 08:03:34AM -0400, Douglas A. Tutty wrote:
> On Sun, Apr 06, 2008 at 07:17:49PM -0700, Andrew Sackville-West wrote:
> > On Sun, Apr 06, 2008 at 09:48:18PM -0400, Douglas A. Tutty wrote:
> > > On Sun, Apr 06, 2008 at 06:18:51PM -0700, Andrew Sackville-West wrote:
> > > > On Sun, Apr 06, 2008 at 08:23:20PM -0400, Douglas A. Tutty wrote:
> > > We could reminise about my 486 that doesn't run Debian anymore. I
> > > wonder if Lenny will run on my P-II or if that's another box for
> > > OpenBSD.
> >
> > hmmm... good question. It doesn't seem to me like there's been as much
> > change between etch and lenny, relative to the sarge->etch
> > transition. Of course, being all sid for my human-facing machines, I
> > haven't used an etch-like system in a while now...
>
> The big problem was the memory requirements with bash hitting swap on
> the 486 in Etch but not Sarge. I wonder how much memory Lenny's
> installer will need; the P-II only has 64 MB.

I'm sure this has been discussed before... I wonder how much of that
bash overhead was just the improved tab-completion scripts and other
add-ons like that... meh.

>
> > my household server here (bigmomma, .5TB) started out on an old
> > pentium 90 system with the cpu on a daughter board. over time, that
> > slot "wore out" (don't ask me how, because I don't know). At the end,
> > I had to keep a rubberband pulling that daughter board at just the
> > right angle, or the thing would lock up and not boot. Worked like that
> > for years.
>
> Aren't you the one that said using a VT520 to access a P-II to ssh into
> an Athlon64 to read mail was rube-goldberg?
>
> Thanks Mr. Pot.
>
> Kettle.

Why yes indeed I was Mr. Kettle. Kind of you to notice.

Pot

A

;-P
 
Old 04-09-2008, 01:28 AM
"Douglas A. Tutty"
 
Default reminiscing on old computers

On Mon, Apr 07, 2008 at 01:23:07PM -0400, Brian McKee wrote:
> >>>slot "wore out" (don't ask me how, because I don't know). At the
> >>>end, I had to keep a rubberband pulling that daughter board at just
> >>>the right angle, or the thing would lock up and not boot. Worked
> >>>like that for years.
> >>Aren't you the one that said using a VT520 to access a P-II to ssh
> >>into an Athlon64 to read mail was rube-goldberg? Thanks Mr. Pot.
> >>Kettle.
> >Why yes indeed I was Mr. Kettle. Kind of you to notice.
>
> And thank you both - I'm having trouble typing between giggling fits.
> :-)

No, Andrew was using the rubber band to keep his daughter from wiggling
so (nah, I won't finish that joke, anyway it wasn't __giggling__ fits.



Doug.


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Old 04-09-2008, 04:34 PM
Andrew Sackville-West
 
Default reminiscing on old computers

On Tue, Apr 08, 2008 at 09:28:40PM -0400, Douglas A. Tutty wrote:
> On Mon, Apr 07, 2008 at 01:23:07PM -0400, Brian McKee wrote:
> > >>>slot "wore out" (don't ask me how, because I don't know). At the
> > >>>end, I had to keep a rubberband pulling that daughter board at just
> > >>>the right angle, or the thing would lock up and not boot. Worked
> > >>>like that for years.
> > >>Aren't you the one that said using a VT520 to access a P-II to ssh
> > >>into an Athlon64 to read mail was rube-goldberg? Thanks Mr. Pot.
> > >>Kettle.
> > >Why yes indeed I was Mr. Kettle. Kind of you to notice.
> >
> > And thank you both - I'm having trouble typing between giggling fits.
> > :-)
>
> No, Andrew was using the rubber band to keep his daughter from wiggling
> so (nah, I won't finish that joke, anyway it wasn't __giggling__ fits.
>
>

No no, sorry Doug, but rubber bands are reserved for securing daughter
*boards* not daughters. I only use du(ct|ck) tape for securing the
children.

/me runs from the SPCA^h^h^h^hCPS...

A
 
Old 04-09-2008, 09:21 PM
Chris Bannister
 
Default reminiscing on old computers

On Sun, Apr 06, 2008 at 09:48:18PM -0400, Douglas A. Tutty wrote:
> On Sun, Apr 06, 2008 at 06:18:51PM -0700, Andrew Sackville-West wrote:
> > On Sun, Apr 06, 2008 at 08:23:20PM -0400, Douglas A. Tutty wrote:
> >
> > so now we can twiddle our thumbs, go on random OT rants and rest
> > assured that lenny will be out any time. When's the next utnubu due
> > out? That always brings a few interesting ones. Maybe we should run
> > some more google trends charts?
> >
>
> We could reminise about my 486 that doesn't run Debian anymore. I
> wonder if Lenny will run on my P-II or if that's another box for
> OpenBSD.

Or wonder if you will be stuck at a 2.6.22 kernel because you have a
nvidia MX400 because m-a only works with the nvidia-glx from unstable if
you try installing the 2.6.24 kernel which has migrated down to Lenny.

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Old 04-09-2008, 11:42 PM
"Douglas A. Tutty"
 
Default reminiscing on old computers

On Wed, Apr 09, 2008 at 09:34:39AM -0700, Andrew Sackville-West wrote:

> No no, sorry Doug, but rubber bands are reserved for securing daughter
> *boards* not daughters. I only use du(ct|ck) tape for securing the
> children.
>
> /me runs from the SPCA^h^h^h^hCPS...

If the wiggle fits.

(I think its much funnier than if I hadn't snipped what came before,
IMHO).

If before we were kettle and pot, now that duct tape is an issue, are we
Red and Green (do other places get the Red Green show?).

Doug.


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