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Scott Ferguson 04-05-2012 11:49 PM

how to increase space for tmpfs /tmp (tmp cleaning)
 
On 06/04/12 05:39, Bob Proulx wrote:
> Scott Ferguson wrote:
>> Bob Proulx wrote:
>>> Scott Ferguson wrote:
>>>> Martin Steigerwald wrote:
>>>>> I like the notion to just use /var/tmp for anything big by default.
>>>>
>>>> Doesn't that require manually deleting files when they're no longer
>>>> required?
>>>
>>> Of course that is no different from /tmp which is the same until
>>> rebooted and I only reboot for kernel security upgrades. In between
>>> those reboots it is no different and a system can go for a long time
>>> without rebooting.
>>
>> So, um, do that mean yes?
>
> Yes. That means yes that I always set up a tmp cleaner for both /tmp
> and /var/tmp. (But that is me. I don't know what Martin does.)
>
>>> I always set up automated tmp cleaners on /tmp and /var/tmp.
>>
>> Good to know. Almost as useful as actually saying what or how ;-p
>
> I intentionally avoided saying details because you would not believe
> how contentious the topic of tmp cleaners really happens to be! If it
> seems like a simple topic that is the first clue that it probably
> isn't. It is a minefield. I put it firmly into the topic area of
> "where angels fear to tread". I know better than to walk there. But
> having stepped into it I was already planning the strategy of my
> retreat so that I could escape with life and limb intact.

Just a wild guess... you've been ice-camping recently. ;-p

>
> As long as the details are ambiguous then there isn't any surface for
> the maligners to attack. There is the presumption of innocence. Or
> in this case the presumption of absolute correctness. And yet it is
> an area that may be impossible to be absolutely correct. If you study
> it in enough detail you may come to the conclusion that it isn't ever
> safe to delete any file. You can only add disk space endlessly and
> never ever delete anything. For those who come to that conclusion,
> sorry, it isn't going to happen.

but, but, but I was told Big Data is the Big Thing....

>
> If you study the problem in enough detail you may conclude that the
> only time to delete files is during system boot time. That is
> certainly a safe time. The state of the system is known and
> controlled. But does that mean that you would schedule a daily reboot
> simply to be able to delete files? That would create an unreasonable
> situation too.

Then there's the dilemma of saved desktop sessions. (I don't use them).

> And then we have the problems of absolute correctness
> for shutdown and bootup. For those that come to that conclusion that
> reboots are required to delete files, sorry, it isn't going to happen.
>
> And so being pragmatic I do set up tmp cleaners. Many things about
> life are compromises. The maligners will attack me and call me a bad
> person for doing so. I have walked through the fire on that one
> before. And yet those attacks against tmp cleaners are impossible to
> trigger on my machines. That won't prevent the maligners from trying.
> They will construct various situations where the vulnerability exists
> and will talk about those cases. That is all very good but those
> cases are not my case and they don't apply. If the problem cases do
> not apply to you either then there shouldn't be any problem for you to
> set up a tmp cleaner either. But that is for you to decide.
>
> To set up a simple tmpcleaner sufficient on your own personal use
> simply install the Debian tmpreaper package and then edit the
> /etc/tmpreaper.conf file TMPREAPER_DIRS='/tmp/. /var/tmp/.' to add
> /var/tmp to the list of directories that it will clean. You would
> turn the warning statement there off too.
>
> To start getting up to speed on the issues with tmp cleaners read the
> /usr/share/doc/tmpreaper/README.security.gz file that comes with
> tmpreaper. Then browse the bug reports for that package:
>
> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?pkg=tmpreaper;dist=unstable
>
> Then read through these references about temporary files:
>
> http://www.dwheeler.com/secure-programs/Secure-Programs-HOWTO/avoid-race.html
>
> http://lcamtuf.coredump.cx/tmp_paper.txt
>
> Additionally reading through various mktemp design notes about how to
> create temporary files securely would be useful background on the
> other side of things too.

Thank you very much for that. I suspect you've saved me many hours of
bum steers.

>
> If I didn't scare everyone just a little bit with this then I didn't
> write it well enough. There isn't any way to win on this issue.

[innocent look] So, which one is best? ;-p

>
> Bob


Kind regards

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Bob Proulx 04-06-2012 11:14 PM

how to increase space for tmpfs /tmp (tmp cleaning)
 
Scott Ferguson wrote:
> Bob Proulx wrote:
> but, but, but I was told Big Data is the Big Thing....

I know you are just teasing but on a serious note I am really hoping
good things come from the Freedom Box project. It addresses the
problems with the current implementations of cloud computing. People
should be able to keep control of their data and software. It will be
good to improve things to the point that people will be able to very
easily deploy their own cloud server and immediately make use of it
like they would if they were using one of the existing cloud servers.

> > If I didn't scare everyone just a little bit with this then I didn't
> > write it well enough. There isn't any way to win on this issue.
>
> [innocent look] So, which one is best? ;-p

Oh... You are ssooo evil. :-)

Bob

P.S.

> Just a wild guess... you've been ice-camping recently. ;-p

:-) No, I haven't been snowcaving. I am bummed. Not much snow up in
the high country this season. It has been very dry. It is going to
be a thirsty next year if things keep getting warmer as it has been.

Scott Ferguson 04-07-2012 12:57 AM

how to increase space for tmpfs /tmp (tmp cleaning)
 
On 07/04/12 09:14, Bob Proulx wrote:
> Scott Ferguson wrote:
>> Bob Proulx wrote:
>> but, but, but I was told Big Data is the Big Thing....
>
> I know you are just teasing

With teeth bared. Cloud is good for a number of things. Cloud is not
good for most of the things it's being used and promoted for.

> but on a serious note I am really hoping
> good things come from the Freedom Box project.

Likewise. Though I suspect you greatly understate the need. There's a
lot of money and power to be gained from selling the promise of gold in
all that data.
Apropos of little - the parts of the brain that are related to self
interest and enlightened self interest don't seem to be able to function
simultaneously.

> It addresses the
> problems with the current implementations of cloud computing. People
> should be able to keep control of their data and software. It will be
> good to improve things to the point that people will be able to very
> easily deploy their own cloud server and immediately make use of it
> like they would if they were using one of the existing cloud servers.

Not going to be easy. Many make a deep emotional investment in their
bondage. Ask them to question that investment and you can expect
ingratitude.

I run sheep. And I spend a lot of time staring out the office window
looking at them - especially when pondering the stupidity of humans
(myself amongst them). Having bred only the most tractable ones for
millennia it shouldn't surprise me that they frequently do things that
are not, ultimately, in their own best interests.

>
>>> If I didn't scare everyone just a little bit with this then I didn't
>>> write it well enough. There isn't any way to win on this issue.
>>
>> [innocent look] So, which one is best? ;-p
>
> Oh... You are ssooo evil. :-)

[cue Windows 98 theme music]
Who me?
One of my mates decommissioned a truck load of old 303 rounds (no longer
used by the ADF). In a effort to reduce government spending I offered to
safely dispose of them.
Being a holy day today, we got up early and greeted the dawn with pink
puffs of bunny. Then we distributed chocolate eggs and rabbits to the kids.
And you think I'm evil?

>
> Bob
>
> P.S.
>
>> Just a wild guess... you've been ice-camping recently. ;-p
>
> :-) No, I haven't been snowcaving. I am bummed. Not much snow up in
> the high country this season. It has been very dry. It is going to
> be a thirsty next year if things keep getting warmer as it has been.

Not much snow anywhere - just ice.
Instead of our usual 40 degrees celsius Canberra summers we've had
frosts. Several times this summer I've been able to see white on the
peaks to the south - and we're expecting a warm winter.


Kind regards

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Scott Ferguson 04-07-2012 11:04 AM

how to increase space for tmpfs /tmp (tmp cleaning)
 
On 07/04/12 10:57, Scott Ferguson wrote:
> On 07/04/12 09:14, Bob Proulx wrote:
>> Scott Ferguson wrote:
>>> Bob Proulx wrote:
>>> but, but, but I was told Big Data is the Big Thing....
>>
>> I know you are just teasing
>
> With teeth bared. <snipped>


Whoops - sooorry. Too much chocolate! :-(
Just forget you read that (except you Bob).
That was meant to be off-list.



Kind regards

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