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Old 04-03-2012, 08:21 PM
Lisi
 
Default correct English usage

On Tuesday 03 April 2012 20:36:07 consultores wrote:
> The other point, is that native speaker, does not mean "excellence"; it
> only mean that this person just speaks one dialect/language from the
> begining of his life!

But in many, if not most, cases, has also been educated in it. And native
speakers are much more likely to be au fait with current usage.

When I took the French Bac., the criterion laid down for the aural English
exam was that marks would be awarded for speaking as would a native speaker,
explicitly in preference to the "correct" usage.

Lisi


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Old 04-03-2012, 08:28 PM
Doug
 
Default correct English usage

On 04/03/2012 04:21 PM, Lisi wrote:

On Tuesday 03 April 2012 20:36:07 consultores wrote:

The other point, is that native speaker, does not mean "excellence"; it
only mean that this person just speaks one dialect/language from the
begining of his life!

But in many, if not most, cases, has also been educated in it. And native
speakers are much more likely to be au fait with current usage.

When I took the French Bac., the criterion laid down for the aural English
exam was that marks would be awarded for speaking as would a native speaker,
explicitly in preference to the "correct" usage.

Lisi



+1 !

--
Blessed are the peacekeepers...for they shall be shot at from both sides. --A.M. Greeley


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Old 04-03-2012, 09:04 PM
consultores
 
Default correct English usage

On 04/03/2012 01:28 PM, Doug wrote:

On 04/03/2012 04:21 PM, Lisi wrote:

On Tuesday 03 April 2012 20:36:07 consultores wrote:

The other point, is that native speaker, does not mean "excellence"; it
only mean that this person just speaks one dialect/language from the
begining of his life!
But in many, if not most, cases, has also been educated in it. And
native

speakers are much more likely to be au fait with current usage.

Hello Lisi
Yes, but please remember that, Old English + Latin, built the Middle
English, and Modern English came from a mixture with other languages.
It is clearly reflected when English words are substituted by Latin
root words. At this time the meaning is different. I think that might in
any other language, there are colloquial and Academic Language.


I suppose that in this list, we could use an understandable language,
because it is more convenient for the users.




When I took the French Bac., the criterion laid down for the aural
English
exam was that marks would be awarded for speaking as would a native
speaker,

explicitly in preference to the "correct" usage.


Here, i only can ask, what side of the dichotomy could be considered as
an undoubted true?




Lisi



+1 !




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Old 04-03-2012, 09:20 PM
Tony van der Hoff
 
Default correct English usage

On 03/04/12 19:21, Camaleón wrote:

On Tue, 03 Apr 2012 18:39:03 +0200, Tony van der Hoff wrote:




In this post, "indicated for" is probably the wrong term for the
context. It roughly means "prescribed". It is unclear what you really
mean, but I would guess "capable of".


Mmm... yes.

How about "appropriate"? Or "prepared"? "suited"? "qualified"? I could
have chosen any of those, in my non-English mind they all sound the same
good :-P

I like "Suited". "Qualified" contains an element of academicity, which
may be appropriate. "Prepared" signifies a willingness; maybe OK here.
"Appropriate" would generally be used to indicate correctness. Use any
of them, but apart from suited, it may sound artificial.



"Ulterior" is certainly not a synonym for "posterior",


But it was, that's what I meant. It's not a term I would neither use in
my own language but it is still perfectly correct.

Maybe, but you wouldn't pass for a native speaker, and that's what this
is all about, isn't it? If I'm wrong about that, then all bets are off;
use whatever word takes your fancy!


"Neither" is OK, but in the wrong place in this context. You may have
better expressed it as "Neither is it a term that I would use ...".



and a Latin Lover is something totally different



Damn. I precisely enclosed "old Latin" in double quotes and used
uppercase "L" to avoid misinterpretations>:-)


Yes, I know. I was trying to introduce some levity. Hence the winkie!

--
Tony van der Hoff | mailto:tony@vanderhoff.org
Ariège, France |


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Old 04-03-2012, 09:38 PM
Lisi
 
Default correct English usage

On Tuesday 03 April 2012 22:04:24 consultores wrote:
> >> When I took the French Bac., the criterion laid down for the aural
> >> English
> >> exam was that marks would be awarded for speaking as would a native
> >> speaker,
> >> explicitly in preference to the "correct" usage.
>
> Here, i only can ask, what side of the dichotomy could be considered as
> an undoubted true?

I'm sorry, I don't understand you, or I would answer. You are indicating the
problem. Words used in unusual ways are less comprehensible. (And yes, I am
sure that many others will have understood you. But sadly, I have not.)

Lisi


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Old 04-04-2012, 12:52 AM
Joe Pfeiffer
 
Default correct English usage

Pierre Frenkiel <pierre.frenkiel@gmail.com> writes:

> On Mon, 2 Apr 2012, Paul E Condon wrote:
>
>>> As far as I know, Squeeze is posterior to Lenny, and the recommended
>> ^^^^^^^^^
>>
>> This is the wrong word in English to describe the relation between
>> Squeeze and Lenny. Maybe OK in some other European language, but not
>> in English.
>> . . For named releases of software and to express a relationship in
>> time,
>> posterior is the wrong word in English.
>>
>> Since the thread seemed mainly about correct English usage, I thought
>> it would be helpful to point this out before the word got incorporated
>> into Debian documentation.
>
> I agree that it is important to have a correct English usage, at least in
> the documention, and that I am less qualified than you in that field.
> Still, I am really puzzled by what I found in several dictionnaries.
> I admit that most of the translation tools found on Internet are
> not very reliable, but I thought that it was not the case for dictionnaries.
> Here are some results I got for the "posterior" entry:
>
> Concise Oxford English Dictionary © 2008 Oxford University Press:
> 1 chiefly Anatomy further back in position . . .
> 2 Medicine . . .
> 3 formal coming after in time or order; later.
>
> WordReference English Thesaurus © 2012
> Sense: Subsequent, succeeding, next, following
> Sense: Behind, at the rear, dorsal, in back o, back
>
> Collinsdictionary.com
> 1. situated at the back of or behind something
> 2. coming after or following another in a series
> 3. coming after in time
>
> Are all these distionnaries wrong?

I am a native speaker, and the "after in time" usage is one I can't
remember ever seeing.


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Old 04-04-2012, 12:53 AM
consultores
 
Default correct English usage

On 04/03/2012 02:38 PM, Lisi wrote:

On Tuesday 03 April 2012 22:04:24 consultores wrote:

When I took the French Bac., the criterion laid down for the aural
English
exam was that marks would be awarded for speaking as would a native
speaker,
explicitly in preference to the "correct" usage.

Here, i only can ask, what side of the dichotomy could be considered as
an undoubted true?

I'm sorry, I don't understand you, or I would answer. You are indicating the
problem. Words used in unusual ways are less comprehensible. (And yes, I am
sure that many others will have understood you. But sadly, I have not.)

Lisi




Lisi
i tried saying that "correct/incorrect", the dichotomy, does not have
any meaning by itself, it needs to be appended by "for", or who/what
is involve.

thanks.


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Old 04-04-2012, 02:04 AM
Dotan Cohen
 
Default correct English usage

On Tue, Apr 3, 2012 at 10:50, Russell L. Harris
<rlharris@broadcaster.org> > Commonly-used English terms which are
apropos to this matter are
> "precede", "predecessor", "succeed", "successor", "antecedent", and
> "descendant". *Thus, one could say:
>
> * "Lenny preceded Squeeze."
>
> or
>
> * "Squeeze succeeds Lenny."
>
> or
>
> * "Lenny is the predecessor of Squeeze."
>
> or
>
> * "Squeeze is the successor of Lenny."
>
> or
>
> * "Lenny is the antecedent of Squeeze."
>
> or
>
> * "Squeeze is the descendant of Lenny."
>

Wow, that's confusing! How about instead using nonsense alliterating
adjective / animal name combinations, arranged alphabetically?

--
Dotan Cohen

http://gibberish.co.il
http://what-is-what.com


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Old 04-04-2012, 02:09 AM
Dotan Cohen
 
Default correct English usage

On Tue, Apr 3, 2012 at 16:21, Lisi <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tuesday 03 April 2012 20:36:07 consultores wrote:
>> The other point, is that native speaker, does not mean "excellence"; it
>> only mean that this person just speaks one dialect/language from the
>> begining of his life!
>
> But in many, if not most, cases, has also been educated in it.

I respectfully disagree. The native speakers of Hebrew and English
that I know are the least educated in the usage of those languages. It
is the immigrants who really study the language. That said, the
Russians do seems to be very well learned of their language. Any
question I have on Russian language the average Russian can explain.


>*And native
> speakers are much more likely to be au fait with current usage.
>

With this part I agree. If you want the fine manual to read like the
current slang or hip hop song, then a native speaker is far preferable
to a learned immigrant.


--
Dotan Cohen

http://gibberish.co.il
http://what-is-what.com


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Old 04-04-2012, 07:39 AM
Lisi
 
Default correct English usage

On Wednesday 04 April 2012 01:53:37 consultores wrote:
> On 04/03/2012 02:38 PM, Lisi wrote:
> > On Tuesday 03 April 2012 22:04:24 consultores wrote:
> >>>> When I took the French Bac., the criterion laid down for the aural
> >>>> English
> >>>> exam was that marks would be awarded for speaking as would a native
> >>>> speaker,
> >>>> explicitly in preference to the "correct" usage.
> >>
> >> Here, i only can ask, what side of the dichotomy could be considered as
> >> an undoubted true?
> >
> > I'm sorry, I don't understand you, or I would answer. You are indicating
> > the problem. Words used in unusual ways are less comprehensible. (And
> > yes, I am sure that many others will have understood you. But sadly, I
> > have not.)
> >
> > Lisi
>
> Lisi
> i tried saying that "correct/incorrect", the dichotomy, does not have
> any meaning by itself, it needs to be appended by "for", or who/what
> is involve.

I was quoting exam regulations, for which I was not responsible. You can see
that I have put "correct" in quotation marks precisely because it needs more
definition. But I would imagine that they meant "correct according to the
grammar books". And I did say "who/what is involve": those in Paris who
were responsible for the exam rules for the Baccalauréat.

Lisi


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