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Old 03-21-2012, 01:47 PM
Bret Busby
 
Default Query about hard drive partitions maintenance

Hello.

In investigating a problem to do with the UDF filesystem format, in
running the Disk Utility, I found the system hard drive partition table,
and have a couple of questions.


The first is this; I have some empty partitions for storing data, and
they were created using the Ubuntu 10.04 installation (before I
installed Debian 6 on the system), and I need to know how to access them
as a user, to move and write data to them.


Using the File Browser, on one of them that I managed to mount using
the utility, the Permissions are all shown as root, and so, as a user, I
cannot change them.


Using the Disk Utility, in selecting a partition, no option is apparent
for changing partition permissions to allow users to write to the
partition.


To me, simply using the su - root then chmod 666 for /dev/sdax, to
change the partition permissions, does not seem right, so I am wondering
whether there is something that I am missing, in trying to use the Disk
Utility to provide full user access to the partition(s).


So, please advise whether there is something that I am missing in using
the Disk Utility to grant users full access to the unused partitions.


The next problem may be a bit more difficult (or, unable to be solved).

In my primary partition, I have three partitions. I have a hardware
manufacturer's partition, a recovery partition, and, as the computer
came with MS Windows, a Windows partition, which is 84GB.


Having inmstalled Ubuntu and Debian 6, I want to experiment with a
different operating system, which requires to be installed in a primary
partition (otherwise, I could instal it in one of the unused
partitions).


With what I now have on the hard drive, rather than deleting the
logical partition, and starting the mutiple systems build all over
again, to get an extra primary partition (I understand that up to four
primary partitions can be created and used), I wonder whether there is
some way of shrinking the existing sda3 partition, which is where MS
Windows is installed, and creating a new primary partition; sda4, into
which I could instal the other operating system, rather than
obliterating everyuthing that I now have in the extended logical
partition.


sda3 is 84GB, and I believe (although I am not sure, but, it sounds
reasonable) that 42 GB should be enough space for each of Windows in one
partition (Win7 Pro), and the other operating system in its own
partition of 42GB.


So, please advise whetehr I can now adjust the primary partition sda3,
to shrink it to 42Gb and create another primary partition; sda4, that I
could use to instal and run another operating system.


Thank you in anticipation.

--
Bret Busby
Armadale
West Australia
..............

"So once you do know what the question actually is,
you'll know what the answer means."
- Deep Thought,
Chapter 28 of Book 1 of
"The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy:
A Trilogy In Four Parts",
written by Douglas Adams,
published by Pan Books, 1992
.................................................. ..


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Old 03-21-2012, 03:29 PM
Camaleón
 
Default Query about hard drive partitions maintenance

On Wed, 21 Mar 2012 22:47:27 +0800, Bret Busby wrote:

(...)

> The first is this; I have some empty partitions for storing data, and
> they were created using the Ubuntu 10.04 installation (before I
> installed Debian 6 on the system), and I need to know how to access them
> as a user, to move and write data to them.

(...)

For static mount points, this is usually done/set in "/etc/fstab". You
basically need two things:

- Set the right permission options for the mount point so users can read/
write/whatever

- Create a mount point in your system with the right permissions

You can do these two things as you prefer, that is, by manually editing
the "/etc/fstab" file and set the mount point permissions using the
command line or using GUI tools. I prefer to do these things manually to
have more control over the steps :-)

> The next problem may be a bit more difficult (or, unable to be solved).
>
> In my primary partition, I have three partitions. I have a hardware
> manufacturer's partition, a recovery partition, and, as the computer
> came with MS Windows, a Windows partition, which is 84GB.

In addition to the explanation, show us the output of:

fdisk -l

So we can have an idea of the current state of your hard disk partitions.

> Having inmstalled Ubuntu and Debian 6, I want to experiment with a
> different operating system, which requires to be installed in a primary
> partition (otherwise, I could instal it in one of the unused
> partitions).

What recent operating system needs to be installed still in a primary
partition? Can you tell what OS are you going to install?

(...)

> So, please advise whetehr I can now adjust the primary partition sda3,
> to shrink it to 42Gb and create another primary partition; sda4, that I
> could use to instal and run another operating system.

Operations with partitions are always dangerous and can lead to data loss
(always make a full backup before playing with this) and can be handled
by Gparted from a LiveCD (that is, from a non-running system) but your
options will depend on your current partition layout.

Greetings,

--
Camaleón


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Old 03-21-2012, 04:03 PM
Keith McKenzie
 
Default Query about hard drive partitions maintenance

On 21/03/12 14:47, Bret Busby wrote:

In my primary partition, I have three partitions. I have a hardware
manufacturer's partition, a recovery partition, and, as the computer
came with MS Windows, a Windows partition, which is 84GB.

Having inmstalled Ubuntu and Debian 6, I want to experiment with a
different operating system, which requires to be installed in a primary
partition (otherwise, I could instal it in one of the unused partitions).


As you have stated, MS Windows is using 3 primary drives, & you & your
Linux installations are using the 4th.


Sorry, but there are no primary partitions left.



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Old 03-26-2012, 02:24 PM
Andrei POPESCU
 
Default Query about hard drive partitions maintenance

On Mi, 21 mar 12, 16:29:45, Camaleón wrote:
>
> For static mount points, this is usually done/set in "/etc/fstab". You
> basically need two things:
>
> - Set the right permission options for the mount point so users can read/
> write/whatever
>
> - Create a mount point in your system with the right permissions

From Linux' point of view this is not correct:

# umount /home/amp/big
# ls -ld /home/amp/big
drwx------ 2 root root 4096 mai 16 2011 /home/amp/big
# mount /dev/sda6 /home/amp/big
# ls -l /home/amp/big
total 16
[...]
drwxrwxr-x 6 amp amp 67 mai 22 2010 burn
drwx------ 3 amp amp 4096 feb 4 12:06 image
drw------- 2 root root 6 nov 7 16:36 lost+found
[...]

As you can see, the permissions of the mount point have no influence on
the permissions of the files on the partition. This is true for about
any filesystem that is more or less native to Linux (ext*, xfs, etc.).

You can set permissions via mount options (and fstab) for fat and ntfs,
but just because they don't support Unix style permissions.

@Bret
Please tell us more about the filesystem on the partition (and mount
options used) and who should have read and/or write access to it.

Kind regards,
Andrei
P.S. I just figured, if it is likely that the filesystem is not
accessible sometimes (e.g. removable drive) it might be a good idea to
remove write permissions from the mountpoint so that you get an error
instead of writing files to the partition holding that mountpoint and
then wondering where your files are gone when the filesystem is properly
mounted.
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Old 03-26-2012, 03:15 PM
Camaleón
 
Default Query about hard drive partitions maintenance

On Mon, 26 Mar 2012 17:24:00 +0300, Andrei POPESCU wrote:

> On Mi, 21 mar 12, 16:29:45, Camaleón wrote:
>>
>> For static mount points, this is usually done/set in "/etc/fstab". You
>> basically need two things:
>>
>> - Set the right permission options for the mount point so users can
>> read/ write/whatever
>>
>> - Create a mount point in your system with the right permissions
>
> From Linux' point of view this is not correct:

Uh? What do you mean? :-?

> # umount /home/amp/big
> # ls -ld /home/amp/big
> drwx------ 2 root root 4096 mai 16 2011 /home/amp/big
> # mount /dev/sda6 /home/amp/big
> # ls -l /home/amp/big
> total 16
> [...]
> drwxrwxr-x 6 amp amp 67 mai 22 2010 burn
> drwx------ 3 amp amp 4096 feb 4 12:06 image
> drw------- 2 root root 6 nov 7 16:36 lost+found
> [...]
>
> As you can see, the permissions of the mount point have no influence on
> the permissions of the files on the partition. This is true for about
> any filesystem that is more or less native to Linux (ext*, xfs, etc.).

I'm not sure about your point here.

What I wanted to say is that in order to make a mount point which is
defined in "/etc/fstab" being writeable by your users the mount point has
to have the proper permissions if not, depending on the path it is
located (e.g., my backup disk is mounted under "/data/backup" to avoid
loops when running the tar routine to make a copy of my "/home"
directory), it will be owned by "root" which is not usually what the user
wants.

Greetings,

--
Camaleón


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Old 03-26-2012, 05:57 PM
Andrei POPESCU
 
Default Query about hard drive partitions maintenance

On Lu, 26 mar 12, 15:15:02, Camaleón wrote:
> >
> > As you can see, the permissions of the mount point have no influence on
> > the permissions of the files on the partition. This is true for about
> > any filesystem that is more or less native to Linux (ext*, xfs, etc.).
>
> I'm not sure about your point here.
>
> What I wanted to say is that in order to make a mount point which is
> defined in "/etc/fstab" being writeable by your users the mount point has
> to have the proper permissions if not, depending on the path it is
> located (e.g., my backup disk is mounted under "/data/backup" to avoid
> loops when running the tar routine to make a copy of my "/home"
> directory), it will be owned by "root" which is not usually what the user
> wants.

"mountpoint" can be ambiguous in this context, I probably just
misunderstood you, so let me rephrase:

When using filesystems that support Unix-style file permissions the
permissions of the directory where the filesystem will be attached (a
mountpoint in fstab(5) terminology) don't matter.

What matters are the actual permissions of the root directory of the
filesystem and any other file present on that filesystem. These
permissions do *not* depend on mount options[1], and can be changed with
chown/chmod.

[1] I'm excluding the 'rw' and 'ro' mount options for the purpose of
this discussion

fat and ntfs (and probably others as well) are special. Since they don't
support Unix-style permissions the owner and mode of *all* files on the
filesystem can be set via mount options (uid,gid,fmask,dmask).

Hope this explains,
Andrei
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Old 03-26-2012, 08:02 PM
Camaleón
 
Default Query about hard drive partitions maintenance

On Mon, 26 Mar 2012 20:57:18 +0300, Andrei POPESCU wrote:

> On Lu, 26 mar 12, 15:15:02, Camaleón wrote:
>> >
>> > As you can see, the permissions of the mount point have no influence
>> > on the permissions of the files on the partition. This is true for
>> > about any filesystem that is more or less native to Linux (ext*, xfs,
>> > etc.).
>>
>> I'm not sure about your point here.
>>
>> What I wanted to say is that in order to make a mount point which is
>> defined in "/etc/fstab" being writeable by your users the mount point
>> has to have the proper permissions if not, depending on the path it is
>> located (e.g., my backup disk is mounted under "/data/backup" to avoid
>> loops when running the tar routine to make a copy of my "/home"
>> directory), it will be owned by "root" which is not usually what the
>> user wants.
>
> "mountpoint" can be ambiguous in this context, I probably just
> misunderstood you, so let me rephrase:
>
> When using filesystems that support Unix-style file permissions the
> permissions of the directory where the filesystem will be attached (a
> mountpoint in fstab(5) terminology) don't matter.

Mmm, IIRC, I had to add "acl" and "user_xattr" for my ext3 backup mount
point and the ReiserFS which I use for "/" has "notail" as default. But
these attributes have to be manually added when you're adding a new disk
from scratch, that's what I wanted to note.

> What matters are the actual permissions of the root directory of the
> filesystem and any other file present on that filesystem. These
> permissions do *not* depend on mount options[1], and can be changed with
> chown/chmod.

That was my second point :-)

> [1] I'm excluding the 'rw' and 'ro' mount options for the purpose of
> this discussion

And what about the above mentioned extended attributes? They can be
useful for enhancing the desktop search and also for samba shares.

> fat and ntfs (and probably others as well) are special. Since they don't
> support Unix-style permissions the owner and mode of *all* files on the
> filesystem can be set via mount options (uid,gid,fmask,dmask).

Yes, these ones are a different beast.

> Hope this explains,

Yup, thanks.

Greetings,

--
Camaleón


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Old 03-27-2012, 01:27 PM
Arnt Karlsen
 
Default Query about hard drive partitions maintenance

On Mon, 26 Mar 2012 15:15:02 +0000 (UTC), Camaleón wrote in message
<jkq15m$4vf$6@dough.gmane.org>:

> On Mon, 26 Mar 2012 17:24:00 +0300, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
>
> > On Mi, 21 mar 12, 16:29:45, Camaleón wrote:
> >>
> >> For static mount points, this is usually done/set in "/etc/fstab".
> >> You basically need two things:
> >>
> >> - Set the right permission options for the mount point so users can
> >> read/ write/whatever
> >>
> >> - Create a mount point in your system with the right permissions
> >
> > From Linux' point of view this is not correct:
>
> Uh? What do you mean? :-?
>
> > # umount /home/amp/big
> > # ls -ld /home/amp/big
> > drwx------ 2 root root 4096 mai 16 2011 /home/amp/big
> > # mount /dev/sda6 /home/amp/big
> > # ls -l /home/amp/big
> > total 16
> > [...]
> > drwxrwxr-x 6 amp amp 67 mai 22 2010 burn
> > drwx------ 3 amp amp 4096 feb 4 12:06 image
> > drw------- 2 root root 6 nov 7 16:36 lost+found
> > [...]
> >
> > As you can see, the permissions of the mount point have no
> > influence on the permissions of the files on the partition. This is
> > true for about any filesystem that is more or less native to Linux
> > (ext*, xfs, etc.).
>
> I'm not sure about your point here.
>
> What I wanted to say is that in order to make a mount point which is
> defined in "/etc/fstab" being writeable by your users the mount point
> has to have the proper permissions if not, depending on the path it
> is located (e.g., my backup disk is mounted under "/data/backup" to
> avoid loops when running the tar routine to make a copy of my "/home"
> directory), it will be owned by "root" which is not usually what the
> user wants.


..a wee exercise: Stuff an usb "key" into an usb hole, "dmesg &&df -h"
to see what happened. Next, "umount -v $(that-usb-device) &&mkdir
-vp /tmp/mountpoint/$(that-usb-device) &&mount -v $(that-usb-device)
/tmp/mountpoint/$(that-usb-device) &&df -h
>>/tmp/mountpoint/$(that-usb-device)/df-h ", then verify with
"cat /tmp/mountpoint/$(that-usb-device)/* ", once you're happy with
that, try "umount -v $(that-usb-device) &&df -h
>>/tmp/mountpoint/$(that-usb-device)/df-h and try diff your 2
"cat /tmp/mountpoint/$(that-usb-device)/* "'s. ;o)

--
..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen
...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry...
Scenarios always come in sets of three:
best case, worst case, and just in case.


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Old 03-28-2012, 09:10 AM
Bret Busby
 
Default Query about hard drive partitions maintenance

On Wed, 21 Mar 2012, Camaleón wrote:



On Wed, 21 Mar 2012 22:47:27 +0800, Bret Busby wrote:

(...)


The first is this; I have some empty partitions for storing data, and
they were created using the Ubuntu 10.04 installation (before I
installed Debian 6 on the system), and I need to know how to access them
as a user, to move and write data to them.


(...)

For static mount points, this is usually done/set in "/etc/fstab". You
basically need two things:

- Set the right permission options for the mount point so users can read/
write/whatever

- Create a mount point in your system with the right permissions

You can do these two things as you prefer, that is, by manually editing
the "/etc/fstab" file and set the mount point permissions using the
command line or using GUI tools. I prefer to do these things manually to
have more control over the steps :-)


The next problem may be a bit more difficult (or, unable to be solved).

In my primary partition, I have three partitions. I have a hardware
manufacturer's partition, a recovery partition, and, as the computer
came with MS Windows, a Windows partition, which is 84GB.


In addition to the explanation, show us the output of:

fdisk -l

So we can have an idea of the current state of your hard disk partitions.



"
:~# fdisk -l

Disk /dev/sda: 640.1 GB, 640135028736 bytes
255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 77825 cylinders
Units = cylinders of 16065 * 512 = 8225280 bytes
Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
I/O size (minimum/optimal): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
Disk identifier: 0xc0000000

Device Boot Start End Blocks Id System
/dev/sda1 1 9 72261 de Dell Utility
/dev/sda2 10 1134 9029632 7 HPFS/NTFS
/dev/sda3 1134 11352 82082604 7 HPFS/NTFS
/dev/sda4 11353 77825 533944342 5 Extended
/dev/sda5 11353 21733 83385351 83 Linux
/dev/sda6 * 21734 31931 81915403+ 83 Linux
/dev/sda7 31932 37267 42860351+ 82 Linux swap /
Solaris

/dev/sda8 42131 52329 81923436 83 Linux
/dev/sda9 52330 62527 81915403+ 83 Linux
/dev/sda10 62528 72726 81923436 83 Linux
/dev/sda11 72727 77825 40957686 7 HPFS/NTFS
/dev/sda12 37267 42130 39061504 83 Linux

Partition table entries are not in disk order
"



Having inmstalled Ubuntu and Debian 6, I want to experiment with a
different operating system, which requires to be installed in a primary
partition (otherwise, I could instal it in one of the unused
partitions).


What recent operating system needs to be installed still in a primary
partition? Can you tell what OS are you going to install?



I want to try PC-BSD 9 (see http://pcbsd.org/ ), which, unfortunately,
apparently needs to be installed in a primary partition.



(...)


So, please advise whetehr I can now adjust the primary partition sda3,
to shrink it to 42Gb and create another primary partition; sda4, that I
could use to instal and run another operating system.


Operations with partitions are always dangerous and can lead to data loss
(always make a full backup before playing with this) and can be handled
by Gparted from a LiveCD (that is, from a non-running system) but your
options will depend on your current partition layout.

Greetings,

--
Camaleón



I think now that I may not be able to instal PCBSD on the computer, as,
with one primary partition being taken up by the Dell (computer
hardware manufacturer) Utility (74MB FAT) and one primary partition
being Recovery (9.2GB NTFS) and one primary partition being OS (Windows
7) (84GB NTFS), and, as someone else had pointed out, the Extended
partition actually constitutes a primary partition (that can be split
into logical drives), and I had not been previously aware of this, but
it is shown (I believe) by the above fdisk -l results showing sda4 to be
the Extended patrtition, and the Debian Disk Utility (which appears to
be an equivalent of Gparted) also shows, when I click on the section
that is the Extended partition, that it is sda4. The previous
information in this paragraph, relating to the other three primary
partitions, is retrieved from the Debian Disk Utility.


So, it appears that, with one primary partition taken up by the
DellUtility, one primary partition taken up by the Recover thing, and
one taken up by Windows 7, with the Extended partition constituting a
primary partition, I have run out of possible available primary
partitions (I believe that a limit of four primary partitions, exists),
so I believe that, in the circumstances, I have to abandon the prospect
of installing PC-BSD 9 on this computer.


I can, more or less, use Debian (I am still learning it, after however
many years), and PC-BSD would be a learning experience, and probably, a
fair bit of hard work (I haven't used BSD, since before GUI's), so it
appears that I will have to leave PC-BSD for a bit longer, or, get a
computer that I can dedicate to (run only the one operating system on
the computer) PC-BSD.


--
Bret Busby
Armadale
West Australia
..............

"So once you do know what the question actually is,
you'll know what the answer means."
- Deep Thought,
Chapter 28 of Book 1 of
"The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy:
A Trilogy In Four Parts",
written by Douglas Adams,
published by Pan Books, 1992
.................................................. ..
 
Old 03-28-2012, 11:24 AM
Keith McKenzie
 
Default Query about hard drive partitions maintenance

On 28/03/12 10:10, Bret Busby wrote:

On Wed, 21 Mar 2012, Camaleón wrote:




I can, more or less, use Debian (I am still learning it, after however
many years), and PC-BSD would be a learning experience, and probably, a
fair bit of hard work (I haven't used BSD, since before GUI's), so it
appears that I will have to leave PC-BSD for a bit longer, or, get a
computer that I can dedicate to (run only the one operating system on
the computer) PC-BSD.


.................

You could run it in a virtual environment (quemu) under Debian.

Or, why not try GhostBSD; available from www.ghostbsd.org , which is a
live (& installable) GUI version of FreeBSD; run from cd/dvd or pendrive.



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