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Old 03-19-2012, 11:32 AM
Jochen Spieker
 
Default apt-get will upgrade aptitude will not

Lisi:
>
> Surely it is worth following the earlier suggestion and doing an "aptitude
> full-upgrade" before trying more complicated things?

The OP has explicitly has explicitly stated that he/she is interested in
the reason for the behaviour. Work-arounds are too easy.

J.
--
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doublethink of our times.
[Agree] [Disagree]
<http://www.slowlydownward.com/NODATA/data_enter2.html>
 
Old 03-19-2012, 11:45 AM
Camaleón
 
Default apt-get will upgrade aptitude will not

On Mon, 19 Mar 2012 13:10:07 +0100, Jochen Spieker wrote:

> Camaleón:

(...)

>> Did you first update the packages database?
>>
>> apt-get update
>> aptitude update
>
> apt-get and aptitude both use the same package database. Running the
> 'udpate' for both of them is not required.

I just run "apt-get upgrade" and said there was nothing to do while
running "aptitude upgrade" wanted to do very (I mean *very*) weird
things, such as removing a bunch of packages. After updating aptitude
database all went smooth...

Greetings,

--
Camaleón


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Old 03-19-2012, 01:17 PM
Bonno Bloksma
 
Default apt-get will upgrade aptitude will not

To answer most questions asked:

>>> Did you first update the packages database?
>>>
>>> apt-get update
>>> aptitude update
>>
>> apt-get and aptitude both use the same package database. Running the
>> 'udpate' for both of them is not required.
>
> I just run "apt-get upgrade" and said there was nothing to do while running "aptitude upgrade" wanted to do very
> (I mean *very*) weird things, such as removing a bunch of packages. After updating aptitude database all went smooth...
>

1)
My systems are all Squeeze.

2)
~# cat /etc/apt/sources.list
deb http://ftp.nl.debian.org/debian/ squeeze main contrib non-free
deb-src http://ftp.nl.debian.org/debian/ squeeze main contrib non-free

deb http://security.debian.org/ squeeze/updates main contrib non-free
deb-src http://security.debian.org/ squeeze/updates main contrib non-free

# Squeeze-updates, previously known as 'volatile'
deb http://ftp.nl.debian.org/debian/ squeeze-updates main contrib non-free
deb-src http://ftp.nl.debian.org/debian/ squeeze-updates main contrib non-free

3)
The last time I ran a full-upgrade was when I upgraded from Lenny. I think this system started out as an Etch system years ago.
I'd like to think the aptitude full-upgrade (or apt-get dist-upgrade) is only to be used when doing major upgrades. But....
~# aptitude full-upgrade
The following packages will be upgraded:
mysql-common
1 packages upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
Need to get 69.6 kB of archives. After unpacking 57.3 kB will be freed.
Do you want to continue? [Y/n/?]n

4)
The command
~# aptitude search " ~ahold"
gave no output so there are no held packages in aptitude. I tested that the last time just before doing the dist-upgrade and I never hold packages unless there is a VERY good reason.

But.... remember the aptitude upgrade gave
No packages will be installed, upgraded, or removed.
0 packages upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 1 not upgraded.
So there is that
... and 1 not upgraded.
In that line. For some reason aptitude will not upgrade that 1 component.

5)
Aptitude upgrade with the -v (or -vv or -vvv) switch gives not much more info, just:
Current status: 0 broken [+0], 1 update [+0], 16431 new [+0].


6)
~# apt-cache showpkg mysql-common
Package: mysql-common
Versions:
5.1.61-0+squeeze1 (/var/lib/apt/lists/security.debian.org_dists_squeeze_updates_main_bin ary-i386_Packages)
Description Language:
File: /var/lib/apt/lists/security.debian.org_dists_squeeze_updates_main_bin ary-i386_Packages
MD5: 562d254c602f89e4390e28f6362283c8

5.1.49-3 (/var/lib/apt/lists/ftp.nl.debian.org_debian_dists_squeeze_main_binary-i386_Packages) (/var/lib/dpkg/status)
Description Language:
File: /var/lib/apt/lists/ftp.nl.debian.org_debian_dists_squeeze_main_binary-i386_Packages
MD5: 562d254c602f89e4390e28f6362283c8


Reverse Depends:
libmysqlclient15off,mysql-common 5.0.51a-24+lenny5
mysql-server-5.1,mysql-common 5.1.61-0+squeeze1
mysql-client-5.1,mysql-common 5.1.61-0+squeeze1
libmysqlclient16,mysql-common 5.1.61-0+squeeze1
mysql-server-5.1,mysql-common 5.1.49-3
mysql-client-5.1,mysql-common 5.1.49-3
libmysqlclient16,mysql-common 5.1.49-3
Dependencies:
5.1.61-0+squeeze1 - mysql-common-4.1 (0 (null)) mysql-common-4.1 (0 (null))
5.1.49-3 - mysql-common-4.1 (0 (null)) mysql-common-4.1 (0 (null))
Provides:
5.1.61-0+squeeze1 - mysql-common-4.1
5.1.49-3 - mysql-common-4.1
Reverse Provides:

So it seems the update is present on my system and ready to be installed, just not by a normal aptitude upgrade.
It is either a normal apt-get upgrade or an aptitude full-upgrade. But why.....?

I will just do an apt-get upgrade now.

Bonno Bloksma
 
Old 03-19-2012, 02:13 PM
Lisi
 
Default apt-get will upgrade aptitude will not

On Monday 19 March 2012 12:32:19 Jochen Spieker wrote:
> Lisi:
> > Surely it is worth following the earlier suggestion and doing an
> > "aptitude full-upgrade" before trying more complicated things?
>
> The OP has explicitly has explicitly stated that he/she is interested in
> the reason for the behaviour. Work-arounds are too easy.
>
> J.

It's NOT a workaround. It is correct usage. In aptitude if you want
_everything_ upgraded, you have to say so, otherwise it will safe-upgrade
and nothing will be removed, and some things will not be updated. I am
suggesting using correct aptitude procedure before trying workarounds.

The reason for the behavior is apt-get != aptitude.

Lisi


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Old 03-19-2012, 02:18 PM
Lisi
 
Default apt-get will upgrade aptitude will not

On Monday 19 March 2012 14:17:44 Bonno Bloksma wrote:
> It is either a normal apt-get upgrade or an aptitude full-upgrade. But
> why.....?

Because they are not the same? If they were identical there would be no point
in having the two of them.

Lisi


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Old 03-19-2012, 02:44 PM
Camaleón
 
Default apt-get will upgrade aptitude will not

On Mon, 19 Mar 2012 14:17:44 +0000, Bonno Bloksma wrote:

> To answer most questions asked:

(...)

Would have been better to reply to every message separately...

> 3)
> The last time I ran a full-upgrade was when I upgraded from Lenny. I
> think this system started out as an Etch system years ago. I'd like to
> think the aptitude full-upgrade (or apt-get dist-upgrade) is only to be
> used when doing major upgrades. But.... ~# aptitude full-upgrade
> The following packages will be upgraded:
> mysql-common
> 1 packages upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
> Need to get 69.6 kB of archives. After unpacking 57.3 kB will be freed.
> Do you want to continue? [Y/n/?]n

So "full-upgrade" worked. Curious.

> 5)
> Aptitude upgrade with the -v (or -vv or -vvv) switch gives not much more
> info, just: Current status: 0 broken [+0], 1 update [+0], 16431 new
^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> [+0].

There is "one" update available. Next time you can open aptitude and
manually browse the available package to gather more information on why
is not going to be updated.

> So it seems the update is present on my system and ready to be
> installed, just not by a normal aptitude upgrade. It is either a normal
> apt-get upgrade or an aptitude full-upgrade. But why.....?
>
> I will just do an apt-get upgrade now.

There must be a good reason (and I bet this deserves a full reading¹),
but I never use aptitude unless apt-get goes crazy and wants to do weird
things :-)

¹http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-reference/ch02.en.html

Greetings,

--
Camaleón


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Old 03-19-2012, 03:39 PM
Jochen Spieker
 
Default apt-get will upgrade aptitude will not

Lisi:
> On Monday 19 March 2012 12:32:19 Jochen Spieker wrote:
>>
>> The OP has explicitly has explicitly stated that he/she is interested in
>> the reason for the behaviour. Work-arounds are too easy.
>
> It's NOT a workaround. It is correct usage.

Sure it is correct usage, but it hides the reason of aptitude's
behaviour from our understanding.

> In aptitude if you want
> _everything_ upgraded, you have to say so, otherwise it will safe-upgrade
> and nothing will be removed, and some things will not be updated.

And we are interested to know what these "some things" are in this case.

> The reason for the behavior is apt-get != aptitude.

That explanation is not very exhaustive.

J.
--
If I was a supermodel I would give all my cocaine to the socially
excluded.
[Agree] [Disagree]
<http://www.slowlydownward.com/NODATA/data_enter2.html>
 
Old 03-19-2012, 05:38 PM
Lisi
 
Default apt-get will upgrade aptitude will not

On Monday 19 March 2012 16:39:13 Jochen Spieker wrote:
> Lisi:
> > On Monday 19 March 2012 12:32:19 Jochen Spieker wrote:
> >> The OP has explicitly has explicitly stated that he/she is interested in
> >> the reason for the behaviour. Work-arounds are too easy.
> >
> > It's NOT a workaround. It is correct usage.
>
> Sure it is correct usage, but it hides the reason of aptitude's
> behaviour from our understanding.
>
> > In aptitude if you want
> > _everything_ upgraded, you have to say so, otherwise it will
> > safe-upgrade and nothing will be removed, and some things will not be
> > updated.
>
> And we are interested to know what these "some things" are in this case.
>
> > The reason for the behavior is apt-get != aptitude.
>
> That explanation is not very exhaustive.
>
> J.

I don't understandwhy you expect them to be identical. Different aplications
are usually dissimilar. But you could always write to the aptitude
maintainers and the apt maintainers and ask them why tney differ on that
particular point.

Lisi


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Old 03-19-2012, 06:49 PM
Tom H
 
Default apt-get will upgrade aptitude will not

On Mon, Mar 19, 2012 at 11:18 AM, Lisi <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Monday 19 March 2012 14:17:44 Bonno Bloksma wrote:
>>
>> It is either a normal apt-get upgrade or an aptitude full-upgrade. But
>> why.....?
>
> Because they are not the same? *If they were identical there would be no point
> in having the two of them.

No matter how different apt-get and aptitude are, it's reasonable to
expect that, if there's a candidate for upgrading mysql-common, that
both "apt-get upgrade" and "aptitude safe-upgrade" will install it;
and if one of them wouldn't install them, it would be apt-get because,
unlike "apt-get upgrade", "aptitude safe-upgrade" is liberal and will
install new packages to satisfy dependencies.

It would've been interesting to see the output of "apt-cache policy
mysql-common" and "aptitude search -F '%c%a%M %p %v %V' mysql-common"
to see whether the aptitude search would have shown a different value
for "%v" and "%V".


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Old 03-21-2012, 05:08 AM
Chris Bannister
 
Default apt-get will upgrade aptitude will not

On Mon, Mar 19, 2012 at 12:45:51PM +0000, Camaleón wrote:
> On Mon, 19 Mar 2012 13:10:07 +0100, Jochen Spieker wrote:
>
> > Camaleón:
>
> (...)
>
> >> Did you first update the packages database?
> >>
> >> apt-get update
> >> aptitude update
> >
> > apt-get and aptitude both use the same package database. Running the
> > 'udpate' for both of them is not required.
>
> I just run "apt-get upgrade" and said there was nothing to do while
> running "aptitude upgrade" wanted to do very (I mean *very*) weird
> things, such as removing a bunch of packages. After updating aptitude
> database all went smooth...

And you had already done an "apt-get update" before this happened?

Remember, Aptitude's "resolver system" is different to apt-get's

P.S. I don't use aptitude but use apt-get whereas Jochen AFAIR use
aptitude.

--
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