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Old 03-22-2012, 03:19 PM
Pierre Frenkiel
 
Default apt-get will upgrade aptitude will not

On Thu, 22 Mar 2012, Jochen Spieker wrote:


I didn't have that problem. Is it reproducible?


yes. I tried apt-get several times before shifting to aptitude.
Is the difference coming from the fact that you are on amd64 and I am on i386?
I'll try later on my laptop which has a amd64 processor.


Sure, if you only use packages from there that are available from
Debian, too. But I use other packages as well. Whether Marillat's use of
the epoch qualifies as cheating is a question I cannot answer.


This results in completely by-passing the pinning settings.
Of course, the excuse is to avoid dependencies problems, but I imagine
that the maintainers of the official repos are also able to manage dependencies
for the packages they provide....

--
Pierre Frenkiel


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Old 03-22-2012, 03:49 PM
Jochen Spieker
 
Default apt-get will upgrade aptitude will not

Pierre Frenkiel:
> On Thu, 22 Mar 2012, Jochen Spieker wrote:
>
>> I didn't have that problem. Is it reproducible?
>
> yes. I tried apt-get several times before shifting to aptitude.
> Is the difference coming from the fact that you are on amd64 and I am on i386?
> I'll try later on my laptop which has a amd64 processor.

You could also try removing ffmpeg on your i386 machine again (or
upgrading to Marillat's version) and install the specific version again.
I assume apt-get developers might be interested in that.

>> Sure, if you only use packages from there that are available from
>> Debian, too. But I use other packages as well. Whether Marillat's use of
>> the epoch qualifies as cheating is a question I cannot answer.
>
> This results in completely by-passing the pinning settings.

No it doesn't, my pinning works fine. Christian Marillat at least uses
documented behaviour in order to make sure that every user uses only his
versions, even if Debian currently ships newer upstream versions.

The policy says, the epoch "is provided to allow mistakes in the version
numbers of older versions of a package, and also a package's previous
version numbering schemes, to be left behind."

I don't know much about these things, but that doesn't sound like
Christian Marillat uses the epoch in a way that was intended by the
policy's authors. But then again, he is maintaining his own repository
and nobody can force him to adhere to the policy.

> Of course, the excuse is to avoid dependencies problems, but I imagine
> that the maintainers of the official repos are also able to manage dependencies
> for the packages they provide....

Debian maintainers are not interested in making sure their libavcodec
works with Marillat's ffmpeg and vice versa.

J.
--
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Old 03-23-2012, 07:53 AM
Alberto Fuentes
 
Default apt-get will upgrade aptitude will not

look at this, is interesting....

http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=401835


On 22/03/12 17:49, Jochen Spieker wrote:

Pierre Frenkiel:

On Thu, 22 Mar 2012, Jochen Spieker wrote:


I didn't have that problem. Is it reproducible?


yes. I tried apt-get several times before shifting to aptitude.
Is the difference coming from the fact that you are on amd64 and I am on i386?
I'll try later on my laptop which has a amd64 processor.


You could also try removing ffmpeg on your i386 machine again (or
upgrading to Marillat's version) and install the specific version again.
I assume apt-get developers might be interested in that.


Sure, if you only use packages from there that are available from
Debian, too. But I use other packages as well. Whether Marillat's use of
the epoch qualifies as cheating is a question I cannot answer.


This results in completely by-passing the pinning settings.


No it doesn't, my pinning works fine. Christian Marillat at least uses
documented behaviour in order to make sure that every user uses only his
versions, even if Debian currently ships newer upstream versions.

The policy says, the epoch "is provided to allow mistakes in the version
numbers of older versions of a package, and also a package's previous
version numbering schemes, to be left behind."

I don't know much about these things, but that doesn't sound like
Christian Marillat uses the epoch in a way that was intended by the
policy's authors. But then again, he is maintaining his own repository
and nobody can force him to adhere to the policy.


Of course, the excuse is to avoid dependencies problems, but I imagine
that the maintainers of the official repos are also able to manage dependencies
for the packages they provide....


Debian maintainers are not interested in making sure their libavcodec
works with Marillat's ffmpeg and vice versa.

J.



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Old 03-23-2012, 11:22 AM
Pierre Frenkiel
 
Default apt-get will upgrade aptitude will not

On Fri, 23 Mar 2012, Alberto Fuentes wrote:


look at this, is interesting....

http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=401835


this is more than 5 years old. It would be interesting to check wether this
bug has been fixed, but the answer of march 2007 is not encouraging.

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Old 03-23-2012, 12:09 PM
Chris Bannister
 
Default apt-get will upgrade aptitude will not

On Wed, Mar 21, 2012 at 05:01:57PM +0100, Alberto Fuentes wrote:
> On 21/03/12 07:08, Chris Bannister wrote:
> >Remember, Aptitude's "resolver system" is different to apt-get's
>
> I think the problem is not the the resolver (apt-get and aptitude
> should get dependences about the same if not problem found, and
> therefore "aptitude full-upgrade" should do the same as "apt-get
> dist-upgrade" thats it, bring all packages up to date following the
> pinning system and install and remove packaged when needed.

It seems so simple doesn't it.

> Im not sure (nor im sure how to check it if thats the case) but I
> think it may have to do with the database of how packages where
> installed. If you install some packages with aptitude and others
> with apt-get and then remove a third one with aptitude again, MAYBE
> the auto and manual installation flag in some packages goes crazy as
> they are handled in separate db (AAFAIK)

That used to be the case.

If you do some research (duckduckgo.com¹ can help here) you will find
that a) package dependency resolution is not an easy task and b) apt-get
and aptitude no longer use different databases.

¹ http://donttrack.us/

--
"Religion is excellent stuff for keeping common people quiet."
-- Napoleon Bonaparte


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Old 03-23-2012, 01:20 PM
Chris Bannister
 
Default apt-get will upgrade aptitude will not

On Thu, Mar 22, 2012 at 02:10:13PM +0100, Jochen Spieker wrote:
> I reaklly like handbrake-cli, that's why I had to keep d-m.org in the
> end.

I've only removed d-m.org from my laptop. The desktop running Lenny
still and where I burn DVD/CD will still have to have d-m.org.

I didn't know about handbrake-cli and looks like it might replace
"videotrans" and "lxdvdrip"

--
"Religion is excellent stuff for keeping common people quiet."
-- Napoleon Bonaparte


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Old 03-23-2012, 02:24 PM
Jochen Spieker
 
Default apt-get will upgrade aptitude will not

Chris Bannister:
>
> I didn't know about handbrake-cli and looks like it might replace
> "videotrans" and "lxdvdrip"

From what I can tell from their package descriptions: not quite. I
usually dump DVD contents using 'mplayer -dumpstream' and then encode
the resulting directory structure using HandBrakeCLI (yes, the binary
name has capitals in it!). HandBrake's strength lies more in the
encoding part, not in DVD ripping/backup.

J.
--
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Old 03-23-2012, 03:16 PM
Curt
 
Default apt-get will upgrade aptitude will not

On 2012-03-22, Chris Bannister <cbannister@slingshot.co.nz> wrote:

> root@tal:~# apt-cache policy libavformat-extra-53

You don't have to be root to do that, did you know?

Just an observation because I use apt-cache frequently and it's
convenient (and potentially less dangerous for slippery fingers) not to
be obliged to su to root every time I do.


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Old 03-24-2012, 01:11 AM
Chris Bannister
 
Default apt-get will upgrade aptitude will not

On Fri, Mar 23, 2012 at 04:24:18PM +0100, Jochen Spieker wrote:
> Chris Bannister:
> >
> > I didn't know about handbrake-cli and looks like it might replace
> > "videotrans" and "lxdvdrip"
>
> From what I can tell from their package descriptions: not quite. I
> usually dump DVD contents using 'mplayer -dumpstream' and then encode

<frown> You have to watch the whole thing each time? </frown>

> the resulting directory structure using HandBrakeCLI (yes, the binary
> name has capitals in it!). HandBrake's strength lies more in the
> encoding part, not in DVD ripping/backup.

I suppose that ultimately all you'd need is libav (ffmpeg is
"now/will be" deprecated) dvdauthor, and genisoimage/growisofs or would
that be libav, vim ?

--
"Religion is excellent stuff for keeping common people quiet."
-- Napoleon Bonaparte


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Old 03-24-2012, 10:16 AM
Jochen Spieker
 
Default apt-get will upgrade aptitude will not

Chris Bannister:
> On Fri, Mar 23, 2012 at 04:24:18PM +0100, Jochen Spieker wrote:
>> Chris Bannister:
>>>
>>> I didn't know about handbrake-cli and looks like it might replace
>>> "videotrans" and "lxdvdrip"
>>
>> From what I can tell from their package descriptions: not quite. I
>> usually dump DVD contents using 'mplayer -dumpstream' and then encode
>
> <frown> You have to watch the whole thing each time? </frown>

No, -dumpstream can use full drive speed without showing the movie.

>> the resulting directory structure using HandBrakeCLI (yes, the binary
>> name has capitals in it!). HandBrake's strength lies more in the
>> encoding part, not in DVD ripping/backup.
>
> I suppose that ultimately all you'd need is libav (ffmpeg is
> "now/will be" deprecated)

Oh, didn't know that.

> dvdauthor, and genisoimage/growisofs or would that be libav, vim ?

Usually, I don't author DVDs. I just want them in H.264 on my disk.

J.
--
I hate myself but have no clear idea why.
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<http://www.slowlydownward.com/NODATA/data_enter2.html>
 

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