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Old 03-08-2012, 10:52 PM
Neal Murphy
 
Default KVM problem

Howdy!

A friend is having the devil's own time trying to get qemu-kvm working for
himself. I have no such trouble.

We are both using Squeeze. I have a quad Phenom-II with 8GB RAM, nVidia video.
He has a dual Athlon with 3GB RAM, ATI video (and recently bought and tried an
nVidia AGP card). Both CPUs support HV.

I use KDE. He uses Gnome.

I wrote a bash script that greatly simplifies and greatly automates
configuring and running KVM VMs while avoiding network/vdisk collisions among
them.

Using that script, I can run many VMs without trouble. They all start and
operate fast. My friend can only run one at fast (normal) speed. The next VM
will almost never get around to starting; the video simply won't respond. But
if I tell it 'vga=none' and use a serial console, the VM inits slower than
normal, but then the serial console runs at normal speed.

I am at a loss to explain. He had the same problem on an older system using
qemu (no KVM) on an athlon that did not support HV.

If this a known problem with a solution, would someone kindly point me in the
right direction?

If it is not a known problem, what data are needed to root out the cause? Does
anyone have any idea why I'd have no trouble and he'd have nothing but?

Hmmm. I just remembered a tiny bit of something. A while back (a year or two)
I had to DL and install an updated kvm/qemu BIOS, video interface, or
something like that, before KVM would behave acceptably. Could it be related
to that?

Thanks,
Neal


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Old 03-09-2012, 02:16 PM
Jon Dowland
 
Default KVM problem

On Thu, Mar 08, 2012 at 06:52:03PM -0500, Neal Murphy wrote:
> Howdy!
>
> A friend is having the devil's own time trying to get qemu-kvm working for
> himself. I have no such trouble.
>
> We are both using Squeeze. I have a quad Phenom-II with 8GB RAM, nVidia video.
> He has a dual Athlon with 3GB RAM, ATI video (and recently bought and tried an
> nVidia AGP card). Both CPUs support HV.

But is it enabled? It is disabled by default in most BIOSes.

> I wrote a bash script that greatly simplifies and greatly automates
> configuring and running KVM VMs while avoiding network/vdisk collisions among
> them.

I prefer virt-manager for this, but each to their own :-)

> I am at a loss to explain. He had the same problem on an older system using
> qemu (no KVM) on an athlon that did not support HV.

That suggests that HV is not available on his new machine - most probably disabled.



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Old 03-09-2012, 03:56 PM
Neal Murphy
 
Default KVM problem

On Friday 09 March 2012 10:16:48 Jon Dowland wrote:
> On Thu, Mar 08, 2012 at 06:52:03PM -0500, Neal Murphy wrote:
> > Howdy!
> >
> > A friend is having the devil's own time trying to get qemu-kvm working
> > for himself. I have no such trouble.
> >
> > We are both using Squeeze. I have a quad Phenom-II with 8GB RAM, nVidia
> > video. He has a dual Athlon with 3GB RAM, ATI video (and recently bought
> > and tried an nVidia AGP card). Both CPUs support HV.
>
> But is it enabled? It is disabled by default in most BIOSes.

He says it is enabled. And double-checked it to be sure.

>
> > I wrote a bash script that greatly simplifies and greatly automates
> > configuring and running KVM VMs while avoiding network/vdisk collisions
> > among them.
>
> I prefer virt-manager for this, but each to their own :-)

I'm sure virt-manager is very nice. But there are no GUIs where I'm going: no
X11, no vnc, no kde or gnome. Only plain old command line (POCL).
>
> > I am at a loss to explain. He had the same problem on an older system
> > using qemu (no KVM) on an athlon that did not support HV.
>
> That suggests that HV is not available on his new machine - most probably
> disabled.

Are you saying that qemu should not be expected to work on a non-HV-enabled
system?


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Old 03-09-2012, 05:33 PM
Barthel Christian
 
Default KVM problem

On Fri, Mar 09, 2012 at 11:56:53AM -0500, Neal Murphy wrote:
> I'm sure virt-manager is very nice. But there are no GUIs where I'm going: no
> X11, no vnc, no kde or gnome. Only plain old command line (POCL).

Sorry, this message is not related to your problem.

Which command line programms do you use for managing KVM? I find it quiet hard
to carry out tasks like mounting an iso file or creating new vms on the shell.
For that reason, I am using this virt-manager program. But I really would prefer
_commandline_ tools (virt-manager has so many stupid bugs; in fact, it leads me
to the opinion that python is not usable for *real* programs).

I tried the virsh shell (virsh), are there other programs to manage a kvm server
from command line? Is there a good howto or tutorial about such programs?

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0xAAA


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Old 03-09-2012, 06:59 PM
"tv.debian@googlemail.com"
 
Default KVM problem

09/03/2012 19:33, Barthel Christian wrote:
> On Fri, Mar 09, 2012 at 11:56:53AM -0500, Neal Murphy wrote:
>> I'm sure virt-manager is very nice. But there are no GUIs where I'm going: no
>> X11, no vnc, no kde or gnome. Only plain old command line (POCL).
>
> Sorry, this message is not related to your problem.
>
> Which command line programms do you use for managing KVM? I find it quiet hard
> to carry out tasks like mounting an iso file or creating new vms on the shell.
> For that reason, I am using this virt-manager program. But I really would prefer
> _commandline_ tools (virt-manager has so many stupid bugs; in fact, it leads me
> to the opinion that python is not usable for *real* programs).
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I assume you mean more *real* than Blender, Openshot, Yum, Miro, Plone,
a good chunk of Google web apps and a few many others...

Sorry, I couldn't resist that one. ;-)


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Old 03-09-2012, 08:31 PM
0xAAA
 
Default KVM problem

On Fri, Mar 09, 2012 at 08:59:35PM +0100, tv.debian@googlemail.com wrote:
> > On Fri, Mar 09, 2012 at 11:56:53AM -0500, Neal Murphy wrote:
> >> I'm sure virt-manager is very nice. But there are no GUIs where I'm going: no
> >> X11, no vnc, no kde or gnome. Only plain old command line (POCL).
> >
> > Sorry, this message is not related to your problem.
> >
> > Which command line programms do you use for managing KVM? I find it quiet hard
> > to carry out tasks like mounting an iso file or creating new vms on the shell.
> > For that reason, I am using this virt-manager program. But I really would prefer
> > _commandline_ tools (virt-manager has so many stupid bugs; in fact, it leads me
> > to the opinion that python is not usable for *real* programs).
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> I assume you mean more *real* than Blender, Openshot, Yum, Miro, Plone,
> a good chunk of Google web apps and a few many others...
>
> Sorry, I couldn't resist that one. ;-)

I dont know any of these programs but it sounds like guff (well, except Plone
but this is also stupid). Compare the quality to a C program with stupid, buggy
python scripts and you can make your own decision. However, what Google is doing
is not interesting - for their sake, they should provide web apps with visual
basic6...

Also, python stupid version management (python2 vs python3) is not really useful
for any programmers out there.


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Old 03-09-2012, 10:12 PM
"tv.debian@googlemail.com"
 
Default KVM problem

09/03/2012 22:31, 0xAAA wrote:
> On Fri, Mar 09, 2012 at 08:59:35PM +0100, tv.debian@googlemail.com wrote:
>>> On Fri, Mar 09, 2012 at 11:56:53AM -0500, Neal Murphy wrote:
>>>> I'm sure virt-manager is very nice. But there are no GUIs where I'm going: no
>>>> X11, no vnc, no kde or gnome. Only plain old command line (POCL).
>>>
>>> Sorry, this message is not related to your problem.
>>>
>>> Which command line programms do you use for managing KVM? I find it quiet hard
>>> to carry out tasks like mounting an iso file or creating new vms on the shell.
>>> For that reason, I am using this virt-manager program. But I really would prefer
>>> _commandline_ tools (virt-manager has so many stupid bugs; in fact, it leads me
>>> to the opinion that python is not usable for *real* programs).
>> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>> I assume you mean more *real* than Blender, Openshot, Yum, Miro, Plone,
>> a good chunk of Google web apps and a few many others...
>>
>> Sorry, I couldn't resist that one. ;-)
>
> I dont know any of these programs but it sounds like guff (well, except Plone
> but this is also stupid). Compare the quality to a C program with stupid, buggy
> python scripts and you can make your own decision. However, what Google is doing
> is not interesting - for their sake, they should provide web apps with visual
> basic6...
>
> Also, python stupid version management (python2 vs python3) is not really useful
> for any programmers out there.
>
>

I'll leave you there with your judgment call, but Blender is considered
a bit more than "gruff" in the 3D modeling and video community, Yum is
Fedora package manager, the developers will be delighted to know they
are writing "stupid buggy python scripts". I obviously lack your broad
knowledge of python, C and visual basic6 to understand how so many
people have missed the obvious truth you are trying to spread. Let's
hope the ignorant masses at RedHat have already started to rewrite
virt-manager in C if they read this.


Please don't cc me directly, I read the list.


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Old 03-10-2012, 06:02 PM
 
Default KVM problem

On Sat, 10 Mar 2012 00:12:11 +0100
"tv.debian@googlemail.com" <tv.debian@googlemail.com> wrote:

> I'll leave you there with your judgment call, but Blender is considered
> a bit more than "gruff" in the 3D modeling and video community, Yum is
> Fedora package manager, the developers will be delighted to know they
> are writing "stupid buggy python scripts".

YMMV, but I would not bring yum as a fine example of python program.
yum's memory footprint makes it nearly unusable on low-end VPS'es, and
implementation language is not the last reason of that. Yum's speed at resolving
package dependencies is abysmal comparing to apt, too (whenever python is to
blame here, or not). IIRC modern Fedoras are unable even to install given less
than 512M memory, and yes, you have to thank yum for that.
Yum has some redeeming qualities, and the first of it that it is much better
than up2date. Which is, in turn, implemented in C, and (surprise) originally
developed by RedHat. yum, on the other hand, was adopted by RedHat from
YellowDog Linux distribution.

A good example of python-based package manager, IMO, is Gentoo's emerge.
Surprisingly, it wasn't hit that hard during theirs python2 -> python3
transition.

That thing pkg they ship with Solaris 11 is also written in python, and mostly
does whatever one needs from package manager.


Back on topic, personally I use virsh to manage qemu-kvm. I've used
virt-manager last time about two years ago. Quit using it when virt-manager's
interface was reworked once more, and started to look like they developed it
for people with heavily impaired vision. Those days, the most meaningful way to
do something with libvirt, was virsh dumpxml -> edit -> virsh define.
Mine's today way of interacting with libvirt is basically the same.

As an alternative to libvirt, one can always use this:
http://current.workingdirectory.net/posts/2012/managing-kvm/


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Old 03-12-2012, 02:40 AM
Neal Murphy
 
Default KVM problem

On Thursday 08 March 2012 18:52:03 Neal Murphy wrote:
> Howdy!
>
> A friend is having the devil's own time trying to get qemu-kvm working for
> himself. I have no such trouble.

I fired up my test dual-core athlon and installed Squebian Deeze. And
encountered problems similar to those my friend has been facing.

Then with a sharp pain, like a pin stuck in my arm, a neuron fired and I
*finally* remembered that I had replaced the vgabios.bin and vgabios-
cirrus.bin files in /usr/share/kvm a looooong time ago. I no longer remember
where I got them or exactly why they needed to be replaced.

I transferred those two files to the athlon system and kvm started behaving
much more betterer. I can now easily start several VMs.

N


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Old 03-12-2012, 12:32 PM
Jon Dowland
 
Default KVM problem

On Fri, Mar 09, 2012 at 11:56:53AM -0500, Neal Murphy wrote:
> On Friday 09 March 2012 10:16:48 Jon Dowland wrote:
> > On Thu, Mar 08, 2012 at 06:52:03PM -0500, Neal Murphy wrote:
> > > Howdy!
> > >
> > > A friend is having the devil's own time trying to get qemu-kvm working
> > > for himself. I have no such trouble.
> > >
> > > We are both using Squeeze. I have a quad Phenom-II with 8GB RAM, nVidia
> > > video. He has a dual Athlon with 3GB RAM, ATI video (and recently bought
> > > and tried an nVidia AGP card). Both CPUs support HV.
> >
> > But is it enabled? It is disabled by default in most BIOSes.
>
> He says it is enabled. And double-checked it to be sure.

Ah well. That was my only hunch

> Are you saying that qemu should not be expected to work on a non-HV-enabled
> system?

Qemu should work on any system. What will vary is whether it will use the
hardware-supported VT method of virtualisation, which gives you near-native
speeds. If that is not available, Qemu can fall back to pure-software CPU
emulation (indeed, that was originally the only thing it did. Then kqemu came
out, which provided kernel-accelerated emulation; then qemu was partially
forked by the KVM people to support using /dev/kvm; then Qemu grew it's own VTG
support which afaik uses /dev/kvm as well.)

My hunch was the problems were due to the software stack falling back to pure
software emulation.


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