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-   -   ntp package. Client by default? (http://www.linux-archive.org/debian-user/641013-ntp-package-client-default.html)

Alberto Fuentes 03-05-2012 01:20 PM

ntp package. Client by default?
 
I think /usr/share/doc/ntp/README.Debian.gz is bad worded. Correct me if
im wrong but it says "[...]The default ntp.conf file is set up for an
NTP "client" that [...]" "[...]Extra configuration work will be
necessary to offer time service to other hosts. [...]"


By default, it works as a server not just as a client. Also I think by
default it should not act as a server as is superseeding ntpdate, and
the most regular use case is to install ntp is to keep in sync the time
of your local computer.


Am i missing something?

greets!
aL


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Jon Dowland 03-05-2012 03:34 PM

ntp package. Client by default?
 
On Mon, Mar 05, 2012 at 03:20:05PM +0100, Alberto Fuentes wrote:
> I think /usr/share/doc/ntp/README.Debian.gz is bad worded. Correct
> me if im wrong but it says "[...]The default ntp.conf file is set up
> for an NTP "client" that [...]" "[...]Extra configuration work will
> be necessary to offer time service to other hosts. [...]"
>
> By default, it works as a server not just as a client. Also I think
> by default it should not act as a server as is superseeding ntpdate,
> and the most regular use case is to install ntp is to keep in sync
> the time of your local computer.

Wow, good point. Indeed it *does* appear to be listening as a server
for other clients, by default, and I'd agree this is perhaps not the
best default.

I'd argue that this was a worth a feature-request bug.

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John Hasler 03-05-2012 04:26 PM

ntp package. Client by default?
 
Jon Dowland writes:
> Wow, good point. Indeed it *does* appear to be listening as a server
> for other clients, by default, and I'd agree this is perhaps not the
> best default.

As long as it listens only on the LAN I don't agree.
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Alberto Fuentes 03-05-2012 04:31 PM

ntp package. Client by default?
 
On 05/03/12 18:26, John Hasler wrote:

Jon Dowland writes:

Wow, good point. Indeed it *does* appear to be listening as a server
for other clients, by default, and I'd agree this is perhaps not the
best default.


As long as it listens only on the LAN I don't agree.


well, it does not. It listens on all interfaces. I just tested and it
worked fine as an ntp server for another box with default conf :/


greets!
aL


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Bob Proulx 03-05-2012 06:38 PM

ntp package. Client by default?
 
Alberto Fuentes wrote:
> John Hasler wrote:
> >Jon Dowland writes:
> >>Wow, good point. Indeed it *does* appear to be listening as a server
> >>for other clients, by default, and I'd agree this is perhaps not the
> >>best default.
> >
> >As long as it listens only on the LAN I don't agree.
>
> well, it does not. It listens on all interfaces. I just tested and
> it worked fine as an ntp server for another box with default conf :/

The entire purpose of ntp is to interact on the network. Not doing
this would be similar to installing sshd and then wanting it not to
listen to the network. That would severely reduce its usefulness. If
you install ntp then there is an expectation that it will behave like
ntp and interact with the network. Plus ntp is very widely used in
all different configurations meaning that this isn't a little known
code path. It is exercised a lot. The risk of an unknown problem is
less than for a lessor used program. I would hate to have paranoid
fervor remove this useful feature. But of course it is always good to
have the documentation as accurate as possible.

Bob

John Hasler 03-05-2012 07:17 PM

ntp package. Client by default?
 
Bob Proulx writes:
> The entire purpose of ntp is to interact on the network. Not doing
> this would be similar to installing sshd and then wanting it not to
> listen to the network. That would severely reduce its usefulness. If
> you install ntp then there is an expectation that it will behave like
> ntp and interact with the network.

Polling the pool servers and offering yourself as a server to the entire
world are quite different things. Ntp should listen on the LAN by
default but there is no reason for it to listen on the LAN by default.
If you want to put it on the Internet as an open timeserver it would be
a one-line config change.
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John Hasler 03-05-2012 07:27 PM

ntp package. Client by default?
 
I wrote:
> Ntp should listen on the LAN by default but there is no reason for it
> to listen on the LAN by default.

Should read "Ntp should listen on the LAN by default but there is no
reason for it to listen on the _WAN_ by default."
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Mika Suomalainen 03-05-2012 07:30 PM

ntp package. Client by default?
 
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256

Hi,

I agree with Bob, that ntp should interact with the network.

Also,aren't most of people using firewalls anyway?

John, how would you listen only LAN by default? There are multiple different router types and manufactors and not all of them share the same IP range. And there are also people who run ntp on lsptops and who do not always connect from same location/with same router.


PS. Sorry for typos. My phone is having weird bug, which does not show wbat I am writing in this emaill.




John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> wrote:

>Bob Proulx writes:
>> The entire purpose of ntp is to interact on the network. Not doing
>> this would be similar to installing sshd and then wanting it not to
>> listen to the network. That would severely reduce its usefulness.
>If
>> you install ntp then there is an expectation that it will behave like
>> ntp and interact with the network.
>
>Polling the pool servers and offering yourself as a server to the
>entire
>world are quite different things. Ntp should listen on the LAN by
>default but there is no reason for it to listen on the LAN by default.
>If you want to put it on the Internet as an open timeserver it would be
>a one-line config change.
>--
>John Hasler
>
>
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Mika Suomalainen
> gpg --keyserver keyserver.ubuntu.com --recv-keys 62FE66853913CB03
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: APG v1.0.8

iQEuBAEBCAAYBQJPVSJkERxNaWthIFN1b21hbGFpbmVuAAoJEG L+ZoU5E8sDM5UI
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13FXFAAcsF75/5aBUaAaStHB6ZZLn1NCJLp3QRQnopEB+ueY8Ejtj4dHlpTmICV u
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1dno+CI3QUBS4kcxN4PccrWIT2IeaGWp8VR+HJ6bb4BMDwUKvv qw7azrtSgtJLzK
IQ56hkGDah6BhQXl+NUOllxLbC098u3iN0k2oF1gH0nTYrAl9O CuC+JPuaaQPX62
CfiFnWq67Phf2ueeCU0kWhI=
=Z4Fa
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


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Bob Proulx 03-05-2012 07:50 PM

ntp package. Client by default?
 
John Hasler wrote:
> Ntp should listen on the LAN by default but there is no reason for
> it to listen on the _WAN_ by default.

But the difference between those two things depends upon how the
network is configured outside of the local host machine. In other
words, how is the local host machine to know that an ethernet device
is a LAN device or a WAN device?

The eth0 interface may be attached on a private LAN with an RFC1918
address such as 192.168.10.10. Or it might have eth0 configured on
the global and hostile internet with 192.0.43.10. Or it might have a
non-RFC1928 address but only be connected to a LAN. How should the
ntp scripted configuration know this?

Should it try to match against RFC1918 address space and make
assumptions at that point? Because as far as I can see that would be
the only way to have any clue at all that an ethernet device is either
a LAN or WAN. That would mostly work except for when a public IP
address is used on a private LAN space of which there are a lot of
networks set up that way.

Bob

Mika Suomalainen 03-05-2012 08:13 PM

ntp package. Client by default?
 
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256

This might be a little offtopic, but Ubuntu is also allowing NTP to be accessed
outside localhost by default too.
Mika Suomalainen
> gpg --keyserver keyserver.ubuntu.com --recv-keys 62FE66853913CB03
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: APG v1.0.8

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F1QQg0xK/sTmRNU2ra+GHgOZZDV5cWPjHYlsH0B0SsXqK4A0T3AmMBtW2Ve K2Nif
+z5bALgg7t9PQn7COWEdfyI=
=uTzK
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


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