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Old 02-12-2012, 10:10 PM
Andrei Popescu
 
Default free software mini pc

On Sb, 11 feb 12, 20:09:00, green wrote:
> - Trim-Slice H (custom kernel)

I was almost going to order one of those, but eventually gave up because
"SATA is implemented with USB to SATA Genesys Logic GL830". I admit the
custom kernel was also not an incentive.

Maybe CompuLab will release a device based on Tegra 3 soon?

OTOH the Raspberry PI should be able to do most of what I really need
(HDMI playback & internet radio), so I'll probably get one as soon as
they include a case.

Kind regards,
Andrei
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Old 02-12-2012, 11:56 PM
Bruce Ferrell
 
Default free software mini pc

On 02/12/2012 07:29 AM, green wrote:
> keitho@strucktower.com wrote at 2012-02-12 08:28 -0600:
>> But I'm curious about the original query- what's the need for such an
>> ultra-quiet machine?
> Reason 1: no cleaning. A system with a fan requires cleaning. Frequency
> of cleaning depends on the environment. The desktop that this will replace
> is in a somewhat dusty environment.
>
> Reason 2: I have seen (slightly) more fans fail than hard disks. So this
> second reason suggests that a fanless system is slightly lower maintenance in
> the long term.
>
> Reason 3: yeah, noise. Really this is not a big deal, but quietness is nice.
I was tempted to remain quiet, but here is the vendor I use for this calls of thing.

http://www.logicsupply.com/categories/fanless_systems

They have a FEW system they have marked as unusuitable for use with Linux. On checking as to why, they observed that they didn't do a clean shutdown on with Ubuntu 10.04... Which
was a know issue with that particular distro/version. I did my own testing and found them to be totally suitable for my environment. YMMV.


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Old 02-13-2012, 03:11 PM
green
 
Default free software mini pc

Bruce Ferrell wrote at 2012-02-12 18:56 -0600:
> http://www.logicsupply.com/categories/fanless_systems

Thanks for the link, they have some nice looking systems. Unfortunately I
was unable to find any mention of Linux kernel support status.

> They have a FEW system they have marked as unusuitable for use with Linux.
> On checking as to why, they observed that they didn't do a clean shutdown
> on with Ubuntu 10.04... Which was a know issue with that particular
> distro/version. I did my own testing and found them to be totally suitable
> for my environment. YMMV.

So they just try booting Ubuntu and if it works, then claim Linux support?

YMMV is exactly what I want the supplier/manufacturer to guarantee *against*
(within reason). Surely other consumers feel the same way?
 
Old 02-13-2012, 03:41 PM
green
 
Default free software mini pc

Andrei Popescu wrote at 2012-02-12 17:10 -0600:
> On Sb, 11 feb 12, 20:09:00, green wrote:
> > - Trim-Slice H (custom kernel)
>
> I was almost going to order one of those, but eventually gave up because
> "SATA is implemented with USB to SATA Genesys Logic GL830". I admit the
> custom kernel was also not an incentive.
>
> Maybe CompuLab will release a device based on Tegra 3 soon?

Is Tegra 3 supported by Linux? Are any of the Tegras supported by Linux?
While I have found nothing definitive, everything I have found suggests not.

> OTOH the Raspberry PI should be able to do most of what I really need
> (HDMI playback & internet radio), so I'll probably get one as soon as
> they include a case.

Sounds great, but probably not adequate for desktop use.
 
Old 02-13-2012, 04:31 PM
David Goodenough
 
Default free software mini pc

On Monday 13 Feb 2012, green wrote:
> Andrei Popescu wrote at 2012-02-12 17:10 -0600:
> > On Sb, 11 feb 12, 20:09:00, green wrote:
> > > - Trim-Slice H (custom kernel)
> >
> > I was almost going to order one of those, but eventually gave up because
> > "SATA is implemented with USB to SATA Genesys Logic GL830". I admit the
> > custom kernel was also not an incentive.
> >
> > Maybe CompuLab will release a device based on Tegra 3 soon?
>
> Is Tegra 3 supported by Linux? Are any of the Tegras supported by Linux?
> While I have found nothing definitive, everything I have found suggests
> not.
If you look at the linux-arm mailing list, or the kernel changelogs you
will find lots of references to the Tegras.

David
>
> > OTOH the Raspberry PI should be able to do most of what I really need
> > (HDMI playback & internet radio), so I'll probably get one as soon as
> > they include a case.
>
> Sounds great, but probably not adequate for desktop use.


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Old 02-13-2012, 08:33 PM
"Christofer C. Bell"
 
Default free software mini pc

On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 10:11 AM, green <greenfreedom10@gmail.com> wrote:
> Bruce Ferrell wrote at 2012-02-12 18:56 -0600:
>> http://www.logicsupply.com/categories/fanless_systems
>
> Thanks for the link, they have some nice looking systems. *Unfortunately I
> was unable to find any mention of Linux kernel support status.
>
>> They have a FEW system they have marked as unusuitable for use with Linux.
>> On checking as to why, they observed that they didn't do a clean shutdown
>> on with Ubuntu 10.04... Which was a know issue with that particular
>> distro/version. *I did my own testing and found them to be totally suitable
>> for my environment. YMMV.
>
> So they just try booting Ubuntu and if it works, then claim Linux support?

Their testing methodology isn't outlined in the post here. The only
inference we can make is that "does the system shut down cleanly under
Ubuntu?" is one of the tests run. The units marked "not suitable for
Linux" failed that test. There is no other information on what
testing is done aside from the above. You cannot make a statement
about their testing methods if you have no information on the entirety
of their testing guidelines/checklist.

> YMMV is exactly what I want the supplier/manufacturer to guarantee *against*
> (within reason). *Surely other consumers feel the same way?

Other consumers do feel that way. However, that's in no way in
conflict with this company's testing methods based on the next to zero
information provided.

--
Chris


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Old 02-13-2012, 09:04 PM
green
 
Default free software mini pc

David Goodenough wrote at 2012-02-13 11:31 -0600:
> On Monday 13 Feb 2012, green wrote:
> > Is Tegra 3 supported by Linux? Are any of the Tegras supported by Linux?
> > While I have found nothing definitive, everything I have found suggests
> > not.
>
> If you look at the linux-arm mailing list, or the kernel changelogs you
> will find lots of references to the Tegras.

Okay, perhaps the kernel does support some Tegras, and perhaps some day the
Trim-Slice will run mainline Linux.
 
Old 02-13-2012, 09:47 PM
green
 
Default free software mini pc

Christofer C. Bell wrote at 2012-02-13 15:33 -0600:
> On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 10:11 AM, green <greenfreedom10@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Bruce Ferrell wrote at 2012-02-12 18:56 -0600:
> > > http://www.logicsupply.com/categories/fanless_systems
> >
> > Thanks for the link, they have some nice looking systems. *Unfortunately I
> > was unable to find any mention of Linux kernel support status.
> >
> > > They have a FEW system they have marked as unusuitable for use with Linux.
> > > On checking as to why, they observed that they didn't do a clean shutdown
> > > on with Ubuntu 10.04... Which was a know issue with that particular
> > > distro/version. *I did my own testing and found them to be totally suitable
> > > for my environment. YMMV.
> >
> > So they just try booting Ubuntu and if it works, then claim Linux support?
>
> Their testing methodology isn't outlined in the post here. The only
> inference we can make is that "does the system shut down cleanly under
> Ubuntu?" is one of the tests run. The units marked "not suitable for
> Linux" failed that test. There is no other information on what
> testing is done aside from the above.

So I can not trust that mainline Linux actually supports the device.
 
Old 02-13-2012, 09:54 PM
"Christofer C. Bell"
 
Default free software mini pc

On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 4:47 PM, green <greenfreedom10@gmail.com> wrote:
> Christofer C. Bell wrote at 2012-02-13 15:33 -0600:
>> On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 10:11 AM, green <greenfreedom10@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > So they just try booting Ubuntu and if it works, then claim Linux support?
>>
>> Their testing methodology isn't outlined in the post here. *The only
>> inference we can make is that "does the system shut down cleanly under
>> Ubuntu?" is one of the tests run. *The units marked "not suitable for
>> Linux" failed that test. *There is no other information on what
>> testing is done aside from the above.
>
> So I can not trust that mainline Linux actually supports the device.

What do you mean by "mainline Linux"? If you mean a stock, vanilla
kernel, Debian isn't using "mainline Linux," either. If you mean a
Debian kernel, then there's no telling if it will work or not without
either trying it or contacting the company and asking.

I would be surprised if it didn't work, to be honest. The things that
generally give Linux trouble are normally graphics cards, wireless
networks, and sound. I don't know what they mean by "fails to cleanly
shut down under Ubuntu." Maybe they mean the system halts but doesn't
power off. Would that be an issue? Having to manually cut power?

Your best bet is to contact them and ask.

--
Chris


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Old 02-14-2012, 11:26 AM
Alex Hutton
 
Default free software mini pc

On 13 February 2012 00:57, green <greenfreedom10@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> So the Trim-Slice is not supported by mainline kernels?
>

As others said, the main issue is the Tegra 2 is a nvidia chip and
CompuLab are reliant on nvidia in order to get things working.

I haven't tried upgrading the kernel since I got the original unit.
Performance was ok with the original but generally it seemed to be
well below what you would expect given the specs of the Tegra 2.

There was an interesting article about the Trim Slice posted a few
days ago, I don't know if you saw it:
http://blog.sesse.net/blog/tech/2012-02-12-21-43_playing_with_the_trim_slice.html

To repeat Christofer's question though, what's the problem with a
non-standard kernel? I get the feeling that these ARM computers that
are coming out are going to be reliant on customised kernels for some
time. If the customisation of the kernel can be managed in a
standardised way, then it shouldn't be a problem.

Cheers,
Alex


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