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Old 10-02-2011, 05:30 AM
Doug
 
Default British vs. American English (was Wow, Evolution left me with eggs in my face)

On 10/02/2011 12:31 AM, Ralf Mardorf wrote:

-------- Forwarded Message --------
From: Ralf Mardorf<ralf.mardorf@alice-dsl.net>
To: Weaver<weaver@riseup.net>
Subject: Re: [OT] British vs. American English (was Re: Wow, Evolution
left me with eggs in my face)
Date: Sun, 02 Oct 2011 06:14:15 +0200

On Sun, 2011-10-02 at 10:51 +1000, Weaver wrote:


/snip/

I suspect that it becomes default for OS is related to the two companies
"Apfel" and "Winzigweich" that are from the USA. Germans learn British
English, just for kids it's cool to use US English, but since it's not
our native language, we're mixing both English + adding some German
habits.



"Winzigweich?" Come now!

Well, I suppose that;s no worse than M$.

--doug

--
Blessed are the peacemakers...for they shall be shot at from both sides. --A. M. Greeley


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Old 10-02-2011, 08:34 AM
Terence
 
Default British vs. American English (was Wow, Evolution left me with eggs in my face)

On 2 October 2011 01:44, Lisi <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> wrote:

> I just asked my granddaughter what meal she would mean by tea and she
> said "What meal? *There isn't a meal called tea." *So it hasn't yet changed
> and is still used as I have described above.
>
> Sorry - language fascinates me!
>

And me. Down here in Devon "Tea" as a meal is as you say, with such
food as bread and butter, scones and cream, sandwiches etc.. "High
tea", on the other hand consists of a hot course, but of a lesser
quantity than a dinner or a supper meal. Perhaps soup, baked beans or
sardines on toast, or even ham and eggs. I remember fondly high tea
with my great aunt with fresh cod roe on toast.....

It tended to be a class division distinction- no doubt generations
old- to a time when candles where expensive, and so the poorer people
would eat their main meal (dinner) at midday and take their post
meridian meal in daylight, but the better off would have dinner by
candlelight. These latter would probably have had tea and perhaps
toast or crumpets mid to late afternoon.

As a child I could eat a great deal of "tea" with scones, strawberry
jam and clotted cream, and still have a hearty appetite for supper or
dinner later. Now I think that that would leave me sated to the rest
of the day!

Another interesting thing (at least to me) is the distinction between
"dinner" and "supper". Does one dine or sup in the evening (I am
assuming that no one on the list would have "dinner" mid-day!). In my
experience it would seem that the usage depends on the formality of
the occasion, with dinner being the more formal.

When receiving an invitation to supper from some friends with whom we
had dined previously (which had been black tie) I asked my hostess the
difference. Her reply was that dining was formal, and taken in the
dining room, but that supper was very informal and eaten around their
large kitchen table.

Language, culture- fascinating!

Terence


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Old 10-02-2011, 09:05 AM
consul tores
 
Default British vs. American English (was Wow, Evolution left me with eggs in my face)

2011/10/1 Lisi <lisi.reisz@gmail.com>:
> On Sunday 02 October 2011 01:09:16 Stephen Powell wrote:
>> In England,
>> "tea" means a full meal.
>
> Sorry to contradict you, but this is inaccurate. *I don't know how the numbers
> pan out percentage-wise, since the use of tea in that sense is both regional
> and class based. *(Yes, that terrible British class system.)
>
> In the middle classes in the south, and the upper classes everywhere in
> England, tea means a cup of tea in the afternoon, perhaps with biscuits
> and/or cake etc. *Cream tea means, I think everywhere in England, a pot of
> tea and scones with cream and strawberry jam, consumed in the afternoon.
>
> In offices and certainly some factories, we have a tea break in the afternoon
> and a coffee break in the morning.
>
> I simply don't know how this pans out in Scotland, Wales and Ireland, but you
> rescued me from needing to know by specifically speaking of England! *I am
> not quibbling - there are distinct cultural differences between the nations.
>
> I just asked my granddaughter what meal she would mean by tea and she
> said "What meal? *There isn't a meal called tea." *So it hasn't yet changed
> and is still used as I have described above.
>
> Sorry - language fascinates me!
>
> Lisi

Lisi

i am trusting your words!
i have read the story that the word "American" was used to denote
USians and Canadians during the 2nd WW; in fact it does not appear on
the USian Constitution: and in any other Language or dialect it means
"every one who has been born in America" from Bering to Cabo de
Hornos. Does it seem true for you?


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Old 10-02-2011, 09:24 AM
Lisi
 
Default British vs. American English (was Wow, Evolution left me with eggs in my face)

On Sunday 02 October 2011 09:34:47 Terence wrote:
> Another interesting thing (at least to me) is the distinction between
> "dinner" and "supper". Does one dine or sup in the evening (I am
> assuming that no one on the list would have "dinner" mid-day!). In my
> experience it would seem that the usage depends on the formality of
> the occasion, with dinner being the more formal.
>
> When receiving an invitation to supper from some friends with whom we
> had dined previously (which had been black tie) I asked my hostess the
> difference. Her reply was that dining was formal, and taken in the
> dining room, but that supper was very informal and eaten around their
> large kitchen table.

That is a matter of class and region again. I will stick to Lancashire, the
west midlands and the home counties, since that is what I know from personal
experience.

For those for whom tea is the evening meal, supper is a hot drink (probably
made with milk) and a biscuit or sandwiches before going to bed.
This "dialect" also allows for dinner - a hot cooked meal in the middle of
the day.

For those who have lunch in the middle of the day, and dinner or supper in the
evening, the distinction between supper and dinner is as you say, unless you
add the word "party". Then dinner party is in the evening, but supper party
is less formal and is later in the evening, say after a concert or the
theatre. So "party" ,maintains the formal/informal distinction, but also
shifts the time.

Lisi


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Old 10-02-2011, 09:56 AM
Ralf Mardorf
 
Default British vs. American English (was Wow, Evolution left me with eggs in my face)

On Sun, 2011-10-02 at 01:30 -0400, Doug wrote:
> "Winzigweich?" Come now!
>
> Well, I suppose that;s no worse than M$.

I'm not sure what M$ does mean , but I'm sure "Winzigweich" is the
same as M$ .


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Old 10-02-2011, 10:04 AM
Terence
 
Default British vs. American English (was Wow, Evolution left me with eggs in my face)

On 2 October 2011 10:24, Lisi <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> wrote:

> For those for whom tea is the evening meal, supper is a hot drink (probably
> made with milk) and a biscuit or sandwiches before going to bed.
> This "dialect" also allows for dinner - a hot cooked meal in the middle of
> the day.
>
> For those who have lunch in the middle of the day, and dinner or supper in the
> evening, the distinction between supper and dinner is as you say, unless you
> add the word "party". *Then dinner party is in the evening, but supper party
> is less formal and is later in the evening, say after a concert or the
> theatre. *So "party" ,maintains the formal/informal distinction, but also
> shifts the time.
>

Yes, I hadn't considered the subtle changes incurred by the "party"
suffix, but you are quite right.

It's no wonder that confusion reigns when non-English English speakers
try to learn or understand the many variations.

Then, of course there is the question of local, dialect words and
phrases.........

Terence


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Old 10-02-2011, 11:52 AM
Stephen Powell
 
Default British vs. American English (was Wow, Evolution left me with eggs in my face)

On Sat, 01 Oct 2011 20:51:14 -0400 (EDT), Weaver <weaver@riseup.net> wrote:
>
> It's all rather simple really!
> English is a language and 'American English' is a dialect.

Whether "American English" is a language or a dialect is not
the point. The point is that the same words sometimes mean
different things to different people groups.
>
> Dialects, from time to time, have a way of becoming possessed of
> delusions of grandeur and, believing that there is an opportunity for
> world domination, create initiatives such as making it the default for
> Operating System installations and ongoing processing.

That's ridiculous. Americans are sometimes perceived as being
arrogant by non-Americans (and unfortunately, sometimes justifiably
so), but this has nothing to do with "world domination".
*Something* has to be the default. Naturally, everyone would like
their own language to be the default, but that's not possible.
Since the vast majority of the people who started the Debian project,
including the founders, DEBra and IAN Murdock, were Americans,
naturally they chose American English as the default. It made
sense.

--
.'`. Stephen Powell
: :' :
`. `'`
`-


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Old 10-02-2011, 12:22 PM
Stephen Powell
 
Default British vs. American English (was Wow, Evolution left me with eggs in my face)

On Sun, 02 Oct 2011 04:34:47 -0400 (EDT),
Terence <terence.john@gmail.com> wrote:
> ...
> (I am assuming that no one on the list would have "dinner" mid-day!).

In the culture and society in which I grew up, "dinner" means the
main meal of the day, which is usually the evening meal (circa 6 PM).
The exception is Sunday, when the main meal is the noon meal,
right after coming home from church. So "Sunday dinner" is the noon
meal on Sunday. The evening meal on Sunday is called supper.
So, Monday through Saturday it's breakfast, lunch, and dinner.
On Sunday, it's breakfast, dinner, and supper.

--
.'`. Stephen Powell
: :' :
`. `'`
`-


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Old 10-02-2011, 12:28 PM
Nate Bargmann
 
Default British vs. American English (was Wow, Evolution left me with eggs in my face)

Growing up it was always breakfast, dinner, lunch, supper with lunch
being a late afternoon snack before chores and supper after the milking
was done. The main meal of the day was dinner/noon time. Somehwere
along the line lunch and dinner got changed around, likely by some city
types who didn't have chores to do. Meanwhile, confusion is allieviated
by stating what time we're going to eat!

- Nate >>

--

"The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all
possible worlds. The pessimist fears this is true."

Ham radio, Linux, bikes, and more: http://www.n0nb.us


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Old 10-02-2011, 12:31 PM
Eike Lantzsch
 
Default British vs. American English (was Wow, Evolution left me with eggs in my face)

On Saturday 01 October 2011 21:39:29 Weaver wrote:
> On Sat, 1 Oct 2011 21:17:08 -0400 (EDT)
>
> Stephen Powell <zlinuxman@wowway.com> wrote:
[snip]
> >
> > P.S. Don't ask for a napkin at a restaurant in Australia.
> > You'll get very strange looks! Ask for a serviette.
> > To them, a napkin is, um, well, never mind.
Oh! Good to know, mate.
Up to now I mistakenly asumed that Marmite and Vegemite were the only -
exasperating but harmless - differences between the island among the North Sea
and the Irish Sea and the vast island within the big southern pond.
(I don't know on how many toes I stepped with this oversimplification -
forgive me, please)

[snip]
Weaver went on weaving this in:
>
> Not too far out.
> The different teas are: morning tea, which is mid-morning; afternoon
> tea - mid-afternoon; Devonshire tea, which is usually with whipped
> cream rather than the original Devonshire clotted cream, because it's
> not available elsewhere and can be had at any time of day; and
> 'high-tea' which is a formal tea and in association with a light
> meal predominated by cakes and pastries. I believe this latter to be
> a translation of the german Kaffeklatszche (spelling?)
Kaffeeklatsch
But that's not a meal nor tea-time, it's a gossiping round of elderly ladies
around a coffee table at or around 5pm. The table loaded with cakes and cream
tarts and coffee in fine Meissen porcelain. The coffee in the pot maintained
warm by a hood made of kitchy crotchet work.

Most entertaining how this thread is turning and winding ;-)

--
Eike Lantzsch ZP6CGE


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