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Old 09-23-2011, 03:33 AM
Scott Ferguson
 
Default Unified Extensible Firmware Interface (UEFI) firmware

On 23/09/11 12:05, chris wrote:
> but does coreboot support uefi?

A. Coreboot is not a commitment (you'd don't have to give up your BIOS/UEFI.

B. Maybe. I haven't had time to read the articles but this might be
imformative:-
http://blogs.coreboot.org/blog/category/uefi/

>
<snipped - and *please* don't top post, leap-frogging with a screen read
is a pain>

Cheers

Ref:-
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=lang_en&tbs=qdr%3Ay%2Clr%3Alang_1e n&q=coreboot+NEAR+%22uefi%22+-%22non-uefit%22&oq=coreboot+NEAR+%22uefi%22+-%22non-uefit%22&aq=f&aqi=&aql=1&gs_sm=e
--
"As if growing up wasn't hard enough - I had a genius for an older brother.
I'd say "I don't have to do anything!" and he'd say
"Yeah you do - take up space, displace matter"....
I'd go "Oh yeah?"
even as a kid I was king of the comebacks"
— Bill Hicks


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Old 09-23-2011, 05:15 AM
Weaver
 
Default Unified Extensible Firmware Interface (UEFI) firmware

On Fri, 23 Sep 2011 11:04:51 +1000
Scott Ferguson <prettyfly.productions@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 23/09/11 09:01, Alex wrote:
> > Thanks for the quick reply, John.
> >
> > It is a long time ago that I hacked any BIOS, and then it was only
> > with tools made available by the manufacturer to boot the machine
> > in the first place, that I have forgotten / no knowledge of how
> > this may be achieved.
> > In any case, I was always under the impression that BIOS resided in
> > ROM (Read Only Memory) hardware, which required removing chips and
> > re-buring them with ROM burner hardware. Maybe things have changed
> > since I was last in that world, but to my knowledge the BIOS
> > setting that we can tinker with, are stored in some sort of FLASH
> > memory or similar, which is indeed writeable, and maintained by the
> > on board battery.
> >
> > But, as I say, all this is from many years ago and maybe things have
> > changed.
> >
> > But I would like to at least have some backup way out if 'the evil
> > empire' did actually achieve that draconian, monopolistic goal.
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Alex
> >
> >
> Check out Coreboot - and research before buying a device/motherboard.

That's one way, but new tech is getting to the stage where it won't
work off a standard BIOS. You need the UEFI base to handle such things
as the new 4 TB drives from Seagate and Hitachi now.

Here are a couple of articles that bear on the subject:

http://www.zdnet.com/blog/microsoft/will-windows-8-block-users-from-dual-booting-linux-microsoft-wont-say/10772

http://www.zdnet.com/blog/open-source/microsoft-tries-to-block-linux-off-windows-8-pcs/9572

Regards,

Weaver.


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Old 09-23-2011, 05:43 AM
Weaver
 
Default Unified Extensible Firmware Interface (UEFI) firmware

These are the drives I was talking about.
Hitachi have put out two the same size.
Careful which one of those you buy.
One has a far slower spindle speed than the other.
Seagate has already advertised a 4 TB internal drive on its way.
That's where the UEFI will come into it's own.
But with external drives this size, who needs a server?
Regards,

Weaver.


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Old 09-23-2011, 05:50 AM
Sven Joachim
 
Default Unified Extensible Firmware Interface (UEFI) firmware

On 2011-09-23 07:15 +0200, Weaver wrote:

> That's one way, but new tech is getting to the stage where it won't
> work off a standard BIOS. You need the UEFI base to handle such things
> as the new 4 TB drives from Seagate and Hitachi now.

No, you don't. You need GPT, which works fine with a traditional BIOS.
Unless you boot Microsoft operating systems, that is.

Sven


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Old 09-23-2011, 07:39 AM
Weaver
 
Default Unified Extensible Firmware Interface (UEFI) firmware

On Fri, 23 Sep 2011 07:50:37 +0200
Sven Joachim <svenjoac@gmx.de> wrote:

> On 2011-09-23 07:15 +0200, Weaver wrote:
>
> > That's one way, but new tech is getting to the stage where it won't
> > work off a standard BIOS. You need the UEFI base to handle such
> > things as the new 4 TB drives from Seagate and Hitachi now.
>
> No, you don't. You need GPT, which works fine with a traditional
> BIOS. Unless you boot Microsoft operating systems, that is.

O.K.
Well, that's good to know.
Regards,

Weaver.


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Old 09-23-2011, 08:10 AM
Scott Ferguson
 
Default Unified Extensible Firmware Interface (UEFI) firmware

On 23/09/11 15:15, Weaver wrote:
> On Fri, 23 Sep 2011 11:04:51 +1000
> Scott Ferguson <prettyfly.productions@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 23/09/11 09:01, Alex wrote:
<snipped>

>>> empire' did actually achieve that draconian, monopolistic goal.
>>>
>>> Regards
>>>
>>> Alex
>>>
>>>
>> Check out Coreboot - and research before buying a device/motherboard.
>
> That's one way, but new tech is getting to the stage where it won't
> work off a standard BIOS.

Untrue (see further down for why).
Note that U/EFI has been around for more than 20 years - still hasn't
delivered - yes it can obscure code from the user, which is a good
reason not to use a traditional BIOS anyway - but it's definitely not
the be-all-and-end-all. It fails to support a lot of firmware - don't
expect that situation to change anytime soon.

> You need the UEFI base to handle such things
> as the new 4 TB drives from Seagate and Hitachi now.

No - read on. :-)

>
> Here are a couple of articles that bear on the subject:
>
> http://www.zdnet.com/blog/microsoft/will-windows-8-block-users-from-dual-booting-linux-microsoft-wont-say/10772
>
> http://www.zdnet.com/blog/open-source/microsoft-tries-to-block-linux-off-windows-8-pcs/9572
>
> Regards,
>
> Weaver.
>
>
Those articles are not strictly true - your old 16-bit BIOS will happily
handle those large hard drives - the limitation is not the BIOS - it's
the partition table and the OS. Linux/BSD/MAC/late versions of Windoof
will all handle GPT.

Those articles just blindly published marketing stories by Brian
Richardson, see one of his disingenuous posts down the bottom of this
story:-
http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1740439/uefi

Given your choice of pseudonym you should no better than to fall for
such marketing guff. :-)

Cheers


--
"As if growing up wasn't hard enough - I had a genius for an older brother.
I'd say "I don't have to do anything!" and he'd say
"Yeah you do - take up space, displace matter"....
I'd go "Oh yeah?"
even as a kid I was king of the comebacks"
— Bill Hicks


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Old 09-23-2011, 08:15 AM
Scott Ferguson
 
Default Unified Extensible Firmware Interface (UEFI) firmware

On 23/09/11 15:50, Sven Joachim wrote:
> On 2011-09-23 07:15 +0200, Weaver wrote:
>
>> That's one way, but new tech is getting to the stage where it won't
>> work off a standard BIOS. You need the UEFI base to handle such things
>> as the new 4 TB drives from Seagate and Hitachi now.
>
> No, you don't. You need GPT, which works fine with a traditional BIOS.
> Unless you boot Microsoft operating systems, that is.
>
> Sven
>
>
I'm pretty sure the last version of Windoof (and the next) can boot GPT.
Vistass can read it, but not boot. Dunno about the 64-bit version though
- it might boot it.
That's not a reason to move to Windoof. And U/EFI is a good reason to
run Coreboot (why worry about OS security when untrustable code is
running in BIOS/EFI?)

Cheers

--
"As if growing up wasn't hard enough - I had a genius for an older brother.
I'd say "I don't have to do anything!" and he'd say
"Yeah you do - take up space, displace matter"....
I'd go "Oh yeah?"
even as a kid I was king of the comebacks"
— Bill Hicks


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Old 09-23-2011, 08:24 AM
Florian Weimer
 
Default Unified Extensible Firmware Interface (UEFI) firmware

* Alex:

> Any comments on the "Unified Extensible Firmware Interface (UEFI)
> firmware" and its ability to preclude booting from alternative
> operating systems such as Linux, BSD etc., would be greatly
> appreciated, as per article entitled "Windows 8 secure boot would
> exclude' Linux"

It seems to me that this technology was pioneered on Android devices
(which tend to lock out alternative operating systems, not just custom
kernels).

--
Florian Weimer <fweimer@bfk.de>
BFK edv-consulting GmbH http://www.bfk.de/
Kriegsstrae 100 tel: +49-721-96201-1
D-76133 Karlsruhe fax: +49-721-96201-99


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Old 09-23-2011, 10:22 AM
Scott Ferguson
 
Default Unified Extensible Firmware Interface (UEFI) firmware

On 23/09/11 18:24, Florian Weimer wrote:
> * Alex:
>
>> Any comments on the "Unified Extensible Firmware Interface (UEFI)
>> firmware" and its ability to preclude booting from alternative
>> operating systems such as Linux, BSD etc., would be greatly
>> appreciated, as per article entitled "Windows 8 secure boot would
>> exclude' Linux"
>
> It seems to me that this technology was pioneered on Android devices
> (which tend to lock out alternative operating systems, not just custom
> kernels).
>
The U/EFI or the "lockout"?
The U/EFI was pioneered on Itanium systems long before Androids were
thought of.

Cheers

--
"As if growing up wasn't hard enough - I had a genius for an older brother.
I'd say "I don't have to do anything!" and he'd say
"Yeah you do - take up space, displace matter"....
I'd go "Oh yeah?"
even as a kid I was king of the comebacks"
— Bill Hicks


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Old 09-23-2011, 11:10 AM
Camalen
 
Default Unified Extensible Firmware Interface (UEFI) firmware

On Fri, 23 Sep 2011 08:18:07 +1000, Alex wrote:

> Any comments on the "Unified Extensible Firmware Interface (UEFI)
> firmware" and its ability to preclude booting from alternative operating
> systems such as Linux, BSD etc., would be greatly appreciated, as per
> article entitled "Windows 8 secure boot would 'exclude' Linux" at
> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/09/21/secure_boot_firmware_linux_exclusion_fears/

I recently read several IT media articles for that news, but I find them
a bit lacking, that is, what is the real scope for that -crazy- proposal?

If it only affects OEM computers (those you buy with "windows" inside) we
already have a very bad situation when it comes to linux, I mean, nothing
new here.

For instance, I cannot see an easy way to update my netbook's BIOS
because the manufacturer (Compaq) only provides an ".exe" file that has
to be run under windows. As I removed windows completely (I retained a
full image of the original windows system but I simply don't want to re-
install it) I cannot get updates for a basic piece of the hardware.

I mean, these kind of computers "OEMized" which are "linked" to specific
OS are a really crap, and this UEFI initiative could be just another
annoying step for customers but still nothing new. We (we=linux users)
also have problems with hard drivers that use a ombination of BIOS
+software+drivers based encryption so finally the customer has to decide
what to use because mixing that things with other OSes gives you more
headaches than it solves.

Anyway, the software "big guys" (like MS or IBM) at least in Europe are
closely investigated by the European Comission for its monopolistic
practices so I don't think they are going to make the same error again.

Greetings,

--
Camalen


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